Article: Sangoma sick note valid: court

Beachless

Executive Member
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Oct 6, 2010
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6,003
#62
Crazy funny man!
Full marks to that response!
Thanks,

But as a less troll response, no one has an issue with her having her beliefs.
The issue is she just did as she pleased, the right way would have been to go to the ccma before absconding and they could have come up with a reasonable mediation that would suit both parties.

Its the way she did it not the why she did it thats the issue here.
 

BTTB

Moderator
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Feb 6, 2004
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7,760
#63
Without knowing the whole story, it seem the person got a month unpaid leave and the issue was more about reinstatement than anything else?
However Sangoma sick notes in my opinion should be declared invalid, not because of the cultural side of things, but for the simple fact that a Sangoma cannot write prescription medicine nor has the training to know if there is something seriously wrong with the patient and act accordingly. They may see the patient is sick, not know what to do, instead of sending them to the Hospital where they should be. In other words a patient visiting a Sangoma and believing that the treatment is going to work could die as a result, allowing these notes to be valid only gives this practice credibility and the patients false belief which may cost them their lives or leave them incapacitated. Also a nice loophole for workers to bunk on the other end of the argument.

These "sick notes" can cripple a small business and should be taken more seriously by this Government of ours. Big Companies can possibly absorb absenteeism and unproductively, but for the small businessman it may mean the difference between staying open or going bankrupt. No wonder why we have such high unemployment in this country.

Hardly anybody these days is permanently employed, the days of employing someone at the age of 18 or after School or Varsity and them retiring at the same venue will form part of our labour history. Even Government which was considered sheltered employment all the years only take people on with contracts for certain periods and conditions. I believe there is law against that too, someone employed for more than 6 months can be considered permanent although I don't know how that would play with a contract in place stating otherwise.

The whole things is a farce and with all due respect to people's cultural beliefs, there is no evidence in my mind that a Sangoma's treatment is any better than a properly trained medical Doctor or specialist. Saying otherwise will only be appeasing the status quo. Not trying to hurt people's feelings, but the truth is that if someone that works for me is seriously ill I personally take them to our Medical Doctor as I want them to get better, it is really that simple.

I suspect big business are working these "sick notes" into the cost of doing business which is passed on to the consumer. Furthermore what are hospitals and clinics there for, costing the taxpayer Billions each month.
 
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chrisc

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Aug 14, 2008
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7,174
#64
This crap needs to be taken to a Higher court immediately and a stop put to it.
+1. There are also ways and means of getting rid of someone. They will just have to explore these options. I would not like to have a person like this working for me. My regular staff are enough of a headache
 

nightjar

Expert Member
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Aug 2, 2008
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4,356
#65
Everyone always asking "Why can't people just believe what they want whether it's true or not, it doesn't harm anyone?"
Doesn't harm anyone?

Except the scores (maybe hundreds) of people killed as witches in the name of belief.
Or countless murders for muti - again in the name of belief.

Not forgetting Tshaka's tradition (which is alive and well in rainbow SA) of taking by force the property (cattle and women for rape) of his neighbours.

Very few of those traditions even get investigated by SAPS because many of their members subscribe to those beliefs.
 

BTTB

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7,760
#66
+1. There are also ways and means of getting rid of someone. They will just have to explore these options. I would not like to have a person like this working for me. My regular staff are enough of a headache
In regards to small businesses and something I often mention to people when this conversation comes up.
No amount of laws or rules can make people work together that no longer wish to do so. Call it constructive dismissal or whatever, if people cannot work together then the time has come to add what is owed to the worker and they should part ways. Bigger businesses can send people to other stores or absorb someone into a different department, but at the end of the day a small business operates differently.

In my 22 years in my own small business (16 employees) I have only been to the CCMA three times and on two occasions the matter was resolved at the first stage and the third was a no show. The one issue was when a worker left my employ and attempted to get money out of me through constructive dismissal, it did not go past the first round as the Commissioner detailed to the ex employee that they did not stand much of a chance to take it further. The second time was when I fired two employees on the spot for smuggling/stealing stock to a customers car, this matter was resolved at the CCMA once I paid them one weeks pay for every year worked, end of story, basically they got what was due to them, nothing else. I refused to reinstate them as the trust was broken. I am a small business and each day I would have to look them in the face and it simply wouldn't work. Sad really as they needed their jobs, not my fault. Another Company may have bowed down and taken them back, possibly splitting them into different departments and warning them.

Getting back on topic. In my business and possibly many other small businesses in our country I wonder how many actually accept these Sangoma "sick" notes. In one case I took an employee to our Doctor so they could get a prescription for Antibiotics as I could clearly see that they had recurring bouts of influenza and would take off work a lot providing me with an official looking note from a Doctor that was not actually a Doctor, I assume a traditional healer of sorts.

Anyway, enough said.
 
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Joined
Apr 29, 2007
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2,258
#67
A woman who was "badly tormented by her ancestors" had to be reinstated in her post, even if she took a month's leave without her employer's permission, the Labour Appeal Court has ruled. Three judges from the Labour Appeals Court delivered their verdict, saying the judgment was "something new", Beeld reported. Johannah Mmelodi, who had already worked for the Kievitskroon Country Estate for eight years, attended in her own free time a course to become a traditional healer. After completing the course, she asked for a month's unpaid leave to attend another course, to become a sangoma.
Link.
 
Joined
Aug 8, 2017
Messages
1,792
#72
Update:

The 3 judges who ruled over this case were all badly tormented by the justice system ancestors after making this ridiculous ruling.


Next up: (In all seriousness, why would the following not be just as valid as this retarded ruling?)

Man masturbates in front of kids playground and tells judge that it was his ancestor masturbating him without his consent. Judge rules man is innocent and ask police to capture and prosecute the Ancestor.
 
Joined
Oct 6, 2010
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12,764
#74
What utter bullshcit...would have told both employee and labor court to fuk off.

The company appealed, and the Labour Appeals Court ruled in Mmelodi's favour, saying South Africa was a land of many cultures and that traditional Western culture could not be allowed to dominate the African culture of many of the country's inhabitants.
So now "culture" and made up fairy tale schit, takes precedence over common sense/the law.
 

3WA

Executive Member
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5,357
#78
This woman’s ancestors want her to be a sangoma, not to work for a country estate. The labour court is interfering. Ancestors smite them!!!
 

Medres

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2017
Messages
249
#79
So the court, which is based on traditional western culture have said that a system based on traditional western culture does not apply, wouldn’t that their own ruling irrelevant??
 
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