BEE/AA- Reverse Aprtheid.

[Kosmik]

Personally I think denying someone of a job that they are qualified for based on their skin colour is pathetic. If you got the skills you deserve the job regardless of colour.

Couldn't have said it better. How's about stopping the whole nonsense and actually getting down and working as country should.

I wonder if AA candidates ever feel insulted by the fact that they may have got a job due to a accident of birth over competence?

 

[Phenom]

1. you can employ who ever you want, racist or not, provided you started and own the business, not a manager at a franchise.

2. what if the fact that whites were given more opportunity in apartheid, as to land, resources and such, against the non-white land owner and equal tax payer, should it be fair for these people to discriminate too? and to what extent does this play a roll in our nation? and what would be the appropriate solution to correct this wrong?

untidy post, sorrys

 

[Phenom]

This whole BEE/AA is a load of horse Sh*t, get rid of it, but they wont because our "new" government is getting back at the whites. Sad but true.

NO, the government is not 'getting back at whites', it is simply at play with black narcissism, supremacy circle-jerk. There was no international nurenburg rally, mandella didn't want that, he did bring us a huge upgrade of a constitution, then he supported the destruction of it too by supporting zuma. what is going on?

yes, we need justice, but fair justice, why aren't we having this?

why are zimbabwians welcome in our nation when they ruined us, why is our goverment taking our money and jerking zim off, why isn't our govenrment doing anything to tell zim to give the land back to their whites, why are they all of a sudden welcom in sa?

shaka, sig-heil

 

[Grimspoon]

NO, the government is not 'getting back at whites', it is simply at play with black narcissism, supremacy circle-jerk. There was no international nurenburg rally, mandella didn't want that, he did bring us a huge upgrade of a constitution, then he supported the destruction of it too by supporting zuma. what is going on?

yes, we need justice, but fair justice, why aren't we having this?

why are zimbabwians welcome in our nation when they ruined us, why is our goverment taking our money and jerking zim off, why isn't our govenrment doing anything to tell zim to give the land back to their whites, why are they all of a sudden welcom in sa?

I guess it is not as simple as the government getting back at the whites, I guess if that is their strategy they are only screwing themselves over as well..For me the day Zuma was sworn in was the day that we all lost any chance of survival in this country. Who in their right mind votes in a rapist and a fraudster. SA is the laughing stock of the world. We chose to have a criminal as a president. I mean really.

Our new government is so worried about looking after themselves that they couldn’t care about the people on the ground floor. We are so screwed. I mean the zim story is a joke, we letting in the people that take jobs away from the South Africans, the people that rob and murder in our country. And we INVITING them in, For god sake, how can we be hopeful of a better future in SA when this is going on?? And I don’t see it getting better.

 

[TonyHawk]

I guess it is not as simple as the government getting back at the whites, I guess if that is their strategy they are only screwing themselves over as well..For me the day Zuma was sworn in was the day that we all lost any chance of survival in this country. Who in their right mind votes in a rapist and a fraudster. SA is the laughing stock of the world. We chose to have a criminal as a president. I mean really.

Our new government is so worried about looking after themselves that they couldn’t care about the people on the ground floor. We are so screwed. I mean the zim story is a joke, we letting in the people that take jobs away from the South Africans, the people that rob and murder in our country. And we INVITING them in, For god sake, how can we be hopeful of a better future in SA when this is going on?? And I don’t see it getting better.

Fight Fire with Fire.. in Zuma's case.. fight Crime with Crime... he's an expert... not so

 

[Roman4604]

On the subject of AA (not BEE), if previously posted studies are to be believed ...

http://www.bizcommunity.com/Article/196/19/9562.html

The study estimates that the black middle class - defined as black South Africans aged 16 years and over and within Living Standards Measures 5-7 - totaled 9.3 million in 2007

http://www.sagoodnews.co.za/benchmarking_progress/black_middle_class_totals_9.3m_unisa_study.html

The average monthly personal cash income of Black Diamonds is R5 900 - comparable with the R5 800 average personal cash income of the white population.

... then size of the black middle class way exceeds that of the entire white population, and the average income of said black middle class exceeds that of the average for the white population.

Unless these studies are way off, statistically they signify that the objectives of AA have now been met (actually exceeded). If the economic imbalances of the past have been recified, then what justifcation is there for the continued widespread practice of AA in the SA workplace?

 

[Grimspoon]

You know what gets me the most - let’s put colour aside for a minute and look at what is most important. Most importantly in my view is that we need to fill jobs with SKILLED individuals who have the ability to perform the tasks at hand.

Unfortunately BEE brings about many many situations where the more skilled and better suited person for the job is turned away due to his skin colour, and the less skilled fresh out of college person of colour then gets the job. Don't get me wrong, I am sure there are plenty situations where the person of colour exceeds some if not all candidates for the job, but my point is that to put someone into a position, which is sometimes CRITICAL on experience based on colour is madness.

Giving jobs such as engineering positions to inexperienced people is simply reckless and it goes as far as to put people’s lives in danger. Give the job to the person who suits it best FFS. Put your BEE egos down for a second and focus on the job that needs to be done, not he colour of the person’s skin.

 

[noxibox]

BEE should have given black people an opportunity to get into business and improve the economic situation. Instead it has merely benefited black fatcats and insiders. One way to fix it would be to bar anyone with more than a certain amount of money from having any involvement - it's not BEE unless the investors are essentially poor.

AA is a reasonable policy. However fixed quotas are doomed to fail unless you also take steps to get people trained and even then those quotas are going to be problematic. Black people are obviously not inherently stupid or lazy, but you cannot just hire someone because they're black or female. I'm happy to have them hired as juniors and to assist them in learning, but regardless of colour or sex if they simply lack the aptitude then it is not possible to keep them. Ultimately while I understand why there are quotas I think they are unworkable and that aspect should be removed. Find some other way to encourage hiring and training.

It also does not matter when you were born. If your parents were in a better position because of their sex or colour, then you are at an advantage right from birth.

 

[Nod]

AA is a quick fix, and like most quick fixes, it normally doesn't do anybody good in the long term.

What would have worked for the long term, but not so popular, would have been to put people back in school, provide quality education and let people work themselves up to where they can, naturally.

There are not enough white people in this country to take all jobs, and with a true level playing field, nobody could point fingers at anybody for getting a job unfairly.

AA will only cause problems in the long run, as you are creating a few generations of young people that would feel wronged, both white and black. The white because they couldn't proof themselves fairly, and black because they'll never be sure if that position was given because they deserved it or not. For some reason it just doesn't have the same feeling of accomplishment, if you get handed a job based on your colour, and not because you were chosen as the best qualified candidate.

 

[Grimspoon]

I totally agree with you noxibox - Having a black individual on your board who gets paid for actually doing nothing and is only there to make your company BEE worthy, to me is not doing anything for the blacks. As the saying goes, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Simple. BEE has achieved that nicely.

I think what gets a lot of people’s backs up is that people are getting jobs that others have worked their whole lives to get and retain.

If BEE would only start benefiting the poor blacks and not the fat cats, then maybe we would see the good in it. At the moment all it is doing is putting skilled individuals out of work forcing them to emigrate, taking their much needed skills along with them.

 

[Ricard]

I was excited to help teach an AA candidate that had a Computer science graduate the ropes of commercial programming... Everything went brilliantly until I was asked how binary algebra worked. That had me concerned - but then the next question scared me even more - 'How many milliseconds are in a second'

I cant say AA is all bad, but if this is the quality of graduates, be afraid - very afraid.

 

[Pilgrim]

I wonder why the government does not implement AA/BEE on a tax level?

Given that only 10% of a company is supposed to be white, why not make a law that just 10% of the countries tax collected may be collected from whites?

Fair is fair hey?

 

[R13...]

I wonder why the government does not implement AA/BEE on a tax level?

Given that only 10% of a company is supposed to be white, why not make a law that just 10% of the countries tax collected may be collected from whites?

Fair is fair hey?

Then they must give back the 90%+ of the country's wealth they hold...
then they can pay 10% of the tax.

 

[RetroBok]

Then they must give back the 90%+ of the country's wealth they hold...
then they can pay 10% of the tax.

Larry not to sound like a poephol, could you provide me with a link where it says 90% of SA's wealth is in white South African hands?

 

[Nod]

Then they must give back the 90%+ of the country's wealth they hold...
then they can pay 10% of the tax.

I would like to see your source that shows us how the whites have taken wealth away from somebody else. I'm not aware of anything more than land redistribution that took place, and is already being corrected by government.

 

[R13...]

Larry not to sound like a poephol, could you provide me with a link where it says 90% of SA's wealth is in white South African hands?

How's this snippet,

South Africa's wealth gap is widening and the average black citizen still only earns an eighth of what his white counterpart does nearly 14 years on from the end of apartheid, a new survey found on Thursday.

............

The institute's 2007 transformation audit found that the per capita income of black South Africans was 13 percent of that of whites, 14 years after the end of the white minority apartheid government.

from here

and more [this is an opinion though],

He said in SA, whites made up about 10% of the population but controlled most of the economy.

"They control 70% of the land, 98% of the banking, all manufacturing, all tourism, 63% of platinum reserves and many gold reserves," Mangena said.

I really shouldn't have to refer you to quotes as demonstrated by the joblessness figures the other idea in another thread...

 

[RetroBok]

How's this snippet,


from here

Thanks for the link however that's income, not wealth, there is a difference.

 

[Empiricism Philosopher]

Then they must give back the 90%+ of the country's wealth they hold...
then they can pay 10% of the tax.

are u non white and racist towards whites?

Look my dad is white and was a orphan, he got no so called white benefits and he worked for many years never being able to study and got a QBE.
Now he is the best in his company being offered the top position and now they found out that because he is white and the guy prior to him in that position is a colourd, now he can not get that job until a other top white official resigns and is given to a non white. How is that fair my dad had fukal, gained fukal from apartheid and now he must suffer even more because the *minority of whites* benefited so now most other whites have to suffer.

Justify that before you turn me into a racist.

 

[TheHiveMind]

Alot of the whites wealth is Europes wealth (wealth being money and education level). Middle class Europeans arrived here as middle class, they did not accumulate it at the expense of other people. Many whites in SA are either first or second level Europeans meaning they either weren't born here, or their parents weren't.


As for AA/BEE:

There should be a sunset clause. The implementation should be policed with severe consequences of abuse.

 

[Nod]

How's this snippet,

South Africa's wealth gap is widening and the average black citizen still only earns an eighth of what his white counterpart does nearly 14 years on from the end of apartheid, a new survey found on Thursday.

How many blacks are jobless percentage wise? How many are tax paying?

Looking at all blacks, would be unfair, as the majority are still without a fixed income. If you look at the tax paying portion, the picture would look very different.

The only point that can be made, is that although the government have tried to create jobs during the past 15 years, it did not do enough to uplift the poor of the poor. 300 000 people lost their job since the start of the year. I'm sure that figure will not improve the average black income figures.

Not enough emphasis was placed on education or skills training. Budgeting for something, does not automatically equate to efficient use of those funds.