battletoad

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why would anyone want to divulge their banking credentials to third parties? For the sake of convenience?! as the saying goes,"a fool and his money are soon parted"...
 
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ToxicBunny

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Much as I won't use 22seven....

Do the banks not understand that a fair number of their clients are multi-banked... and as such a banks PFM tool is not good enough to give a holistic view of a persons finances.
 

morkhans

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Christo Vrey, head of Absa digital banking services, said that Absa continues to remind customers never, under any circumstances, to divulge their PIN and passwords to any third party.

Yet your call center is happy to call its customers from a blocked number and then take offense when you refuse to go through the security verification process. When you point out that they called you and in fact they should be verifying themselves the line goes oddly quiet.
 

Bern

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Do the banks not understand that a fair number of their clients are multi-banked... and as such a banks PFM tool is not good enough to give a holistic view of a persons finances.

That is the major advantage - as far as I know you can also link various accounts like Edgars cards etc as well (maybe not yet, but it will be coming soon). The point is to get a holistic view in a way your brain can interpret better. ABSA again making themselves look like fools, at least the other banks acknowledged the benefits, but highlighted the current reason they are not happy about it.

Yet your call center is happy to call its customers from a blocked number and then take offense when you refuse to go through the security verification process. When you point out that they called you and in fact they should be verifying themselves the line goes oddly quiet.

That baffles me no end - agent wants me to divulge all my info and can't understand why I tell them to get stuffed and call from a traceable number??? If I want to steal your bank details I will just call you from a blocked number, ask for your verification details and then go in to your account. Why bother trying to hack 22seven? I would do it from an Indian call centre (ET Protection services ahem).
 

supersunbird

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why would anyone want to divulge their banking credentials to third parties? For the sake of convenience?! as the saying goes,"a fool and his money are soon parted"...

Exactly the problem thats causing a wooha here and why lots of banks (overseas) offer view only access details (such as FNB does) where no transactions can be initiated at all.
 

Paul_S

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Once again FNB is years ahead of the competition!

+1
I've unfortunately only had the pleasure of banking with FNB for 4 months - I should have moved years ago.
I can almost guarantee that the in house PFM tools that the banks write will exclude or obscure their banking charges.
Once people get a holistic view of how ABSA and Standard Bank are ripping their customers off with regards to banking charges and fees there will be a max exodus. Most people are too lazy to add all the charges up.
 
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ToxicBunny

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I am with Nedbank and I'm very close to moving to FNB...

And I won't use the Nedbank PFM tool.... cos it won't give me a holistic view of my finances.
 

deweyzeph

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I used to live in the UK for several years before coming back to SA a few years ago, and I still have 2 bank accounts there with different banks and I can honestly say that FNB is vastly superior to any bank I've ever dealt with in the UK, both in terms of their customer service and their innovative use of technology. FNB's internet banking is probably up there with the best in the world.
 

Jan

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For those interested in the unabridged responses we received from the banks, here they are.

First National Bank

Spokesperson: Lee-Anne van Zyl, CEO, FNB Online Banking

FNB has not changed their sentiment with regards to 22Seven, and never attempted to block access to 22Seven. We were still investigating the various options available with 22Seven to establish the most appropriate way forward. After careful consideration, we have decided that setting up a secondary user profile is the most appropriate option.

We maintain the views in our initial statement urging our customers to never disclose their personal details such as their Personal Identification Number (PIN), username, password and One Time Pin (OTP). Customers should never access FNB's Online Banking via a link, and should never respond to a request to 'update' or 'reconfirm' their banking details as this exposes the customer to phishing.

These are the questions I asked of the other banks
  1. Do you have existing features, or do you plan to launch features for your online banking that will allow for safe access to users' data by third parties?
  2. When do you plan to launch these features, if it all?

Absa

Spokesperson: Christo Vrey, Head of Absa Digital Banking Services

Absa would like to remind its customers that under no circumstances should they divulge their sensitive personal information (online banking PIN numbers and passwords) to any third party. As a responsible financial services company, the protection of our customers’ secure information remains paramount.

Our stance on third party personal financial management (PFM) services that request users divulge sensitive details will remain consistent with this, until further direction is received from the relevant regulatory and industry bodies. Absa is open to conversations with third party PFM service providers to explore collaborative models that do not violate the simple principle of never sharing one’s online banking logon credentials with any third party.

Absa customers in general have rightly expressed need for high levels of online banking security, and largely welcome Absa’s firm stance on the topic of online banking security. We protect online banking customers with a variety of technical measures including free logon alerts via SMS, free anti-virus software, market-leading innovations such as our unique SurePhrase™ welcome message.

Absa’s online banking service also allows users to securely download and export transaction history information into various formats, for use at their own discretion.

Standard Bank

Spokesperson: Itumeleng Monale, director of self-service banking at Standard Bank:

Standard Bank’s primary concern is always the security of our customers’ funds and information. We will therefore not support the disclosing of any banking logon credentials to third parties, especially in the case where those third parties have not engaged with the bank in detail to ensure alignment of security standards. In the event that a third party is allowed to store or intercept a customer’s banking logon credentials, the security of their account cannot be guaranteed.

As part of a new suite of functionality that will be made available to customers within the trusted environment of our online banking service, Standard Bank is already developing a financial management tool and related capabilities.

Engagements with the technology service providers for 22seven are currently being arranged to understand their environments and assess the potential risk to our customers if they were to utilise their service in accessing Standard Bank account information. In the interest of customer security, we urge our clients clients to ensure that they take responsibility for their accounts and we continue to recommend that clients do not use websites where they are asked to provide their login credentials, thereby putting their accounts at risk. Standard Bank has always encouraged clients to check the address bar when entering their logon credentials to ensure that they are entering their logon credentials only on the valid bank's site.

Nedbank

Spokesperson: Anton de Wet: Managing Executive Client Engagement at Nedbank

Nedbank recognises the rising trend of Personal Financial Management (PFM) tools, both globally and in South Africa. It shows that people wish to be able to access their information easily and take greater ownership in managing their financial affairs. There are a number of solutions available in the market today, including the Nedbank Personal Money Manager which can be accessed via www.nedbank.co.za which can also help promote better financial management. People making use of any PFM offering, need to be aware of the risks associated with disclosing their personal credentials to others and use service providers they trust. Nedbank is continuously looking at ways to enhance security to ensure clients can transact safely in a digital environment.
 

Markd

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the banks make a good point. They cant support you giving me your account details. In addition to that there are other consideration like POPI legislation coming into effect which would make this 22seven offering questionable as well.

Whoever developed the platform had an awesome idea, but it seems 0 business sense to go with it, and before you know it 22seven will be yesterdays news. It seems dead before it even got going...
 

Viva

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This feature was available in FNB online banking since before 22seven launched, and [seemed to offer a good solution][22seven versus SA banks] to the concerns the banks have regarding security?

Say what? Is this an error?
 

Viva

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De Wet went on to say that it too has a personal financial management tool called Nedbank Personal Money Manager, available from its website.

Absa previously revealed that it is working on a PFM tool for its customers which it said removes “any of the security concerns present in third party PFM tools like 22seven.”

Standard Bank has now also revealed in its response to our questions that it plans to launch a PFM tool.

I get the feeling the banks are only now waking up and joining the party after 22seven launched. I guess it asking to much to expect them to do the innovating :(
 

Viva

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Yes, issue with generating the HTML from my Markdown. This was fixed hours ago. Refresh the page.

I opened the page hours ago and only got around to reading it now. My bad :eek:
 

AfricanTech

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I get the feeling the banks are only now waking up and joining the party after 22seven launched. I guess it asking to much to expect them to do the innovating :(

Hmm, I'm not so sure - dunno why we automatically assume this - suspect all the big banks have something up their sleeves.
 

Bern

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I used to live in the UK for several years before coming back to SA a few years ago, and I still have 2 bank accounts there with different banks and I can honestly say that FNB is vastly superior to any bank I've ever dealt with in the UK, both in terms of their customer service and their innovative use of technology. FNB's internet banking is probably up there with the best in the world.

Actually when I worked there in 2000 there was a bank (well building society turned bank) called Woolwich which was light years ahead of everyone. They had free internet banking, automatic savings account linked to your transaction account with set limits (basically it kept as much money as possible in an interest bearing account and then automatically transferred it to the cheque account when you made payments over what was in the cheque account) and a whole host of other features all for a low price and no additional charges. Barclays bought them and killed them off.

ABSA proving once again what a bunch of buffoons they are:
with a variety of technical measures including free logon alerts via SMS, free anti-virus software, market-leading innovations such as our unique SurePhrase
So if I trademark a silly name for a simple crap authentication service can I call it a market leading innovation? Seriously FNB came up with OTP long ago, renaming it "surephrase" and making it alphanumeric doesn't make it new. ******s.

I would also love to know how the "free antivirus software" works - are they handing out free Norton Security licenses?

Lastly free sms OTP - wow, you don't get charged for sending them by the networks, so whoop-de-doo.
 
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