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Question of the Day: Will you be watching the FIFA World Cup Final?
Thats rich considering Mr Microsoft himself Bill Gates essentially sole the idea for MS-DOS and marketed the product to IBM... and then based Windows 95 on Apple's OS at the time.... hmmmm...
And guess what MAC's OS is still (1) More stable and (2) Reliable than any other Windows OS... And before all the PC guys starting with the MAC comments about MACs and games... a MAC can run Windows and probably better than a PC...
vodacom3g
Vodacom Representative
Actually, virtualisation is probably the best way to get the best possible setup.
I run XP within Vista (Virtual PC), Ubuntu (VMWare and OSX (Parallels) and it effectively gives me the best of both worlds.
On Vista I had no choice as Microsoft stopped supporting some of it's own software and I need an XP instance to run it and on both Ubuntu and OSX, I get Unix as an OS but can run Windows apps when required.
Virtualisation is probably one of the most underused technologies available to us today. The ability to switch between a number of instances is very powerful.
Personally I think a bootcamp partition that can also be accessed via Parallels is - at least when it comes to OsX and Windows.
d0b33
Honorary Master
But you can't game using a VirtualPC.
vodacom3g
Vodacom Representative
Quite, but if you want a gaming rig for the high-end games, you should really build a dedicated gaming machine. And then probably dual-boot to get to the other OS's. This is not a VM limitation BTW.
But this is actually an important point, we all have different needs and you satisfy these by using the best possible combination of the various factors for your setup.
So, if gaming is important to you, you're going to be running Windows, if your requirement is for a stable server you're most probably on some version of Linux, if Office productivity is important, OSX could be a great choice.
Thus what works for you might not work for me and visa versa.
But we should be able to discuss technology as a concept (what constitutes a goos OS, for example) without having to get into a p!ssing competition.
I use my Mac for managing my 2 TB of data, getting to where I want on the net. Boot time is 10 sec and then I start working, Skype, Invoice production, editing video, editing photo's, maintaining a blog, multitasking (I never could multitask on a PC). So in essence my productivity has gone up 10x from where it was using a PC.
Spotlight has allowed me to to increase my productivity dramatically. Having a Mac is like implanting Google into your brain, think of something and type the beginning of the words, it appears and you can work.
Spotlight has allowed me to to increase my productivity dramatically. Having a Mac is like implanting Google into your brain, think of something and type the beginning of the words, it appears and you can work.
vodacom3g
Vodacom Representative
[OT]
Couldn't help to notice your sig
, so I'm going to go completely OT here for a sec with a support question; Can Entourage connect to MS Business Contact Manager?[/OT]
Depends on what version of MS Office for Mac you have, the Pro version does., Student Home Edition does not.[OT]
Couldn't help to notice your sig
[/OT]
Drunkard #1
Expert Member
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You'll never get a fanboy to admit it, but a PC is the better choice for most people.
App support: I've got several programs you've never heard of (people like DDV TECH probably use them daily) that I wouldn't even try to use in an emulator on a MAC. Most software, except for general office and stuff aimed at arty types is only released for Windows. This includes engineering (all flavours), medical, audit, accounting and so on.
Hardware cost: my PC got zapped by lightning a while back. Still works, but the onboard NIC and sound died. Cost to fix - R 109. Got a PCI NIC from an old PC - free, and a new sound card for R 109. And most importantly, I didn't have to waste half a day driving to Sandton to get the part.
Software cost: I'm sick of paying for software, it's a total rip-off. Everything I use, bar Windows, is freeware, including my CAD package, cutting optimiser, word processor and so on. And what isn't free (phone call recorder, etc.) is cheap. As far as pro systems go, just the equivalent software for MAC would cost me several grand.
Stability: my PC runs 24 hours a day. I reboot about every two weeks, and would estimate 1 crash a year. Good enough for me.
********* companies: I will never support Apple or Core group, ever. They suck. They treat customers like dirt. Core groups motto could be "We don't compete on price". They've even managed to double the price of the Wii (compared to the States), and failed to market Europe's top selling GPS (tom-tom) locally. Microsoft's no saint, and HP has THE WORST customer service on earth, but once I've bought the OS I never speak to MS, and at least I can choose not to support HP.
So you fanboys can preach all you want; unless your job involves wax crayons and playdough, a PC is your best choice.
App support: I've got several programs you've never heard of (people like DDV TECH probably use them daily) that I wouldn't even try to use in an emulator on a MAC. Most software, except for general office and stuff aimed at arty types is only released for Windows. This includes engineering (all flavours), medical, audit, accounting and so on.
Hardware cost: my PC got zapped by lightning a while back. Still works, but the onboard NIC and sound died. Cost to fix - R 109. Got a PCI NIC from an old PC - free, and a new sound card for R 109. And most importantly, I didn't have to waste half a day driving to Sandton to get the part.
Software cost: I'm sick of paying for software, it's a total rip-off. Everything I use, bar Windows, is freeware, including my CAD package, cutting optimiser, word processor and so on. And what isn't free (phone call recorder, etc.) is cheap. As far as pro systems go, just the equivalent software for MAC would cost me several grand.
Stability: my PC runs 24 hours a day. I reboot about every two weeks, and would estimate 1 crash a year. Good enough for me.
********* companies: I will never support Apple or Core group, ever. They suck. They treat customers like dirt. Core groups motto could be "We don't compete on price". They've even managed to double the price of the Wii (compared to the States), and failed to market Europe's top selling GPS (tom-tom) locally. Microsoft's no saint, and HP has THE WORST customer service on earth, but once I've bought the OS I never speak to MS, and at least I can choose not to support HP.
So you fanboys can preach all you want; unless your job involves wax crayons and playdough, a PC is your best choice.
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vodacom3g
Vodacom Representative
Cool, thanks. Will check it out then. Pretty sure I've got Pro.
vodacom3g
Vodacom Representative
I think you kinda argued against yourself here
As I said before, practically you end up using the OS that supports the apps you need. You clearly use specialised apps and thus you've got no choice but to use Windows. But the inverse is also true (though not applicable to you); there are apps out there that drive people to OSX. PeterCH already highlighted some of them.
This does not make others OS's such as Ubuntu and OSX worse Operating Systems than Windows, just less supported. And we've already discussed the reasons why.
Again, if Apple released OSX to the wider community, app support will quickly grow.
Rouxenator
Dank meme lord
You could either have a bad PC but in this case I would go with Adobe being a crappy maker of software. I have seen many graphics people getting mad at Adobe stuff and that is purely because it is crap software. Their PCs are perfectly fine when they do anything else.
So yes - if you want to use FCP then Mac is the way to go. Finally someone has answered my questions and we have 1 use for a Mac so far that you cannot use a PC for. (I am still very happy with Nero 8).
The ultimate would be something that works without problems, and runs any software I want. My PC does just that. It just works, runs anything I like and did not cost me an arm and a leg. These are all midrange to budget components and I am still on the drivers I got it with. No mess no fuss. I even play some 3D games on it as the onboard X1250 is fairly acceptable for gaming.
What real work is it that you are doing that I cannot do on a PC ? I would love to hear from you and perhaps we can chalk up another use for a Mac that PC cannot do (as I did with FCP).
1GB is assigned to the onboard Radeon x1250 and windows addresses 2.25GB of the rest. Only 750mb is un-addressable and it really does not bother me at all neither does it cause any problems.
Ever heard of logic ? And I mean c'mon, why else would people want a "sexy computer" (FCP noted) if it is not to make up for the fact that they see it as an alternative to plastic surgery.
"You're ripping us off!", Steve shouted, raising his voice even higher. "I trusted you, and now you're stealing from us!"
But Bill Gates just stood there coolly, looking Steve directly in the eye, before starting to speak in his squeaky voice.
"Well, Steve, I think there's more than one way of looking at it. I think it's more like we both had this rich neighbor named Xerox and I broke into his house to steal the TV set and found out that you had already stolen it."
vodacom3g
Vodacom Representative
Scary to think we don't worry about 750MB of RAM anymore.
Just shows how cheap memory became. I remember when I bought the first available 64M Sim for a Sun Sparc and it cost R25K!
But the point was a modern OS should not have these kind of limitations. I'm running 64-bit Windows to get around this problem.
d0b33
Honorary Master
OMG comparing FCP to Nero 8? you are way out of your depth on this one.
By making this known it proves that you have no need for a serious PC. I have a 9600GT with 512MB dedicated ram that will outperform your 1GB shared ram.
Rouxenator
Dank meme lord
Scary to think we don't worry about 750MB of RAM anymore.
Just shows how cheap memory became. I remember when I bought the first available 64M Sim for a Sun Sparc and it cost R25K!
But the point was a modern OS should not have these kind of limitations. I'm running 64-bit Windows to get around this problem.
64bit is the way to go, but right now I have so many 32bit executables that it does not make sense to run them all through wow thunking. I guess that is why my PC just works and is so stable
I was a bit annoyed at first with the missing 750MB but it is so cheap (these are Chaintech modules) that I really do not worry about it
Peder
Hobbit
Roux you won't understand will you??
There is specific reason why there are graphics cards and not built in graphics...
Final cut pro will NOT work with a onboard graphics card btw, because it needs enough memory to run on its own...
Oh btw roux what editing program do you use to edit your HD stuff?
And how long is your HD Movies?
There is specific reason why there are graphics cards and not built in graphics...
Final cut pro will NOT work with a onboard graphics card btw, because it needs enough memory to run on its own...
Oh btw roux what editing program do you use to edit your HD stuff?
And how long is your HD Movies?
Rouxenator
Dank meme lord
I said Nero 8 works for ME. Now I am not everyone, although most people wish to be like me
, so that is why I said if you want to use FCP then you need a Mac. I did not say stuff FCP you can do it all with Nero because that is just not true, Nero is for consumers not professionals.I never said my onboard grpahics would outperform any dedicated graphics hardware because simply put, it won't. But for surfing the net, playing the odd game, making DVD and editing 720p video files it is more that enough. My PC has also been running at full capacity since I started using it 14 months ago doing WCG : http://boincstats.com/stats/user_stats.php?pr=wcg&st=0&hosts=0&ti=&co=South Africa&date=&or=0
What I am trying to get as here is that most people with Macs do pretty much the same thing but they convince themselves that they can only do it with a Mac.
vodacom3g
Vodacom Representative
64bit is the way to go, but right now I have so many 32bit executables that it does not make sense to run them all through wow thunking. I guess that is why my PC just works and is so stable
I was a bit annoyed at first with the missing 750MB but it is so cheap (these are Chaintech modules) that I really do not worry about it
But if you run a 64-bit OS, you could recover that 750MB and give it to a dedicated instance running XP in a VM.
BTW, I've had NO issues with any of my 32-bit apps on Vista-64-bit. I do, however, have serious issues with Vista just locking up for up to a minute at a time.
It's hugely frustrating. I suspect it's Explorer but because the GUI is part of the OS, it's near impossible to debug.
Rouxenator
Dank meme lord
I understand more than you might think. I am just trying to get across that most Mac users can do the same thing on a PC.
FCP is the only exception so far and knowing the crap Adobe makes I will admit that if you want to do hardcore video graphics like most broadcasters do, then FCP (and a Mac of course) if for you.
I am not saying Vista is bad, but stability wise I am sticking to XP 32bit with SP3. Missing 750MB is not hardly as bad as the frustrations I will have when my PC hangs or crashes when it is on Vista (not saying it will but I don't wanna go there).