[May 2013..Dec 2013] The Gauteng E-tolling Thread

[2026]

There is nothing the ANC can do about the Billboards. They do not violate any laws.

I think they'll try pull a trademark without permission quickly first while they read the IEC rules. But I'm not convinced that a political party can trademark itself can it?

EDIT: I see IzZzy beat me to it

 

[Sinbad]

I think they'll try pull a trademark without permission quickly first while they read the IEC rules. But I'm not convinced that a political party can trademark itself can it?

EDIT: I see IzZzy beat me to it

Well in that case, every single piece of ANC literature published should have a (TM) mark next to ANC, shouldn't it?

 

[LazyLion]

But yeah, there may be merit in the DA having used the ANC's trademark without its permission, but I'm no Trademark expert.

I actually mentioned that possibility the same day that the billboards went up!

 

[2026]

Yes, the ANC owns it's own trademark

A search of the Trademarks Office Register revealed that the African National Congress is the proprietor of the ANC and African National Congress trademarks, as well as numerous ANC device (logo) marks in South Africa. The ANC has no doubt built up a considerable repute in its trademarks in South Africa (and worldwide) and these trademarks might be considered to be well-known trademarks in terms of the Trademarks Act

 

[Sinbad]

Also

There are three types of trade mark infringement namely:

the unauthorised use in the course of trade in relation to the identical goods or services, of an identical mark or a mark so nearly resembling it as to be likely to deceive or cause confusion;
the unauthorised use in the course of trade of an identical or similar mark, in relation to goods or services which are so similar that there exists the likelihood of deception or confusion;
the unauthorised use in the course of trade in relation to any goods or services of an identical or similar mark, if the registered trade mark is well-known in the Republic and the use of the other mark would be likely to take unfair advantage of, or be detrimental to, the distinctive character or repute of the registered trade mark.

Is this in the course of trade?
Also, does it actually infringe as above? There is nothing misleading or untruthful or detrimental about the billboards....?

 

[2026]

Also

There are three types of trade mark infringement namely:

the unauthorised use in the course of trade in relation to the identical goods or services, of an identical mark or a mark so nearly resembling it as to be likely to deceive or cause confusion;
the unauthorised use in the course of trade of an identical or similar mark, in relation to goods or services which are so similar that there exists the likelihood of deception or confusion;
the unauthorised use in the course of trade in relation to any goods or services of an identical or similar mark, if the registered trade mark is well-known in the Republic and the use of the other mark would be likely to take unfair advantage of, or be detrimental to, the distinctive character or repute of the registered trade mark.

Is this in the course of trade?
Also, does it actually infringe as above? There is nothing misleading or untruthful or detrimental about the billboards....?

Well, you can argue that the ANC and the Government are separate entities, and thus it's government that brought the tolls and you can not interchange the two?

 

[Sinbad]

Well, you can argue that the ANC and the Government are separate entities, and thus it's government that brought the tolls and you can not interchange the two?

The ANC frequently confuses party and state though.

 

[2026]

The ANC frequently confuses party and state though.

All the time... except now of course!

 

[Jola]

The ANC frequently confuses party and state though.

All the time ?

Edit : Ah, been pipped at the post.

But yes, the ANC does not really distinguish. They also believe that all the State's resources belong to them, for their personal use.

 

[LazyLion]

Even if they go the Trademark route, it is no guarantee that they can take the billboards down as it can be argued that there is no commercial/financial motive in the comment and that it is protected free speech, and/or parody.

Just using the Name ANC is not necessarily a Trademark infringement.
People should be able to use the name in normal everyday speech and for the purpose of making comment and quoting.

 

[LazyLion]

[video=youtube;4hNYrcU5Hh4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hNYrcU5Hh4&feature=youtu.be[/video]

 

[Wyzak]

Even if they go the Trademark route, it is no guarantee that they can take the billboards down as it can be argued that there is no commercial/financial motive in the comment and that it is protected free speech, and/or parody.

Just using the Name ANC is not necessarily a Trademark infringement.
People should be able to use the name in normal everyday speech and for the purpose of making comment and quoting.

Even so it should take a few months for the court to rule on the matter, unless the ANC abuse their power once more.

 

[MagicDude4Eva]

From little IT-mice involved with the SANRAL project, I got whispers that the complete IT-infrastructure and implementation is a complete mess. If you think that COJ billing system is an abortion, re-think - SANRAL is several magnitudes worse. Aside from the billing system being inaccurate and issues in the collection process there are a ton of operational errors and oversights. Not just security issues, but also up-time, performance- and stability problems. The system is incapable of performing a proper bill-run and will fail a governance and a financial audit.

The government is too arrogant to scrape the project altogether and tax-payers will have to face a defunct system for years to come. With the exception of SARS (and even they are plagued with data-leaks, down-time and crashes, but are quite capable of managing the systems with their IT partners), there is no other government department which is capable of running IT properly without spending billions of Rands annually.

 

[creeper]

From little IT-mice involved with the SANRAL project, I got whispers that the complete IT-infrastructure and implementation is a complete mess. If you think that COJ billing system is an abortion, re-think - SANRAL is several magnitudes worse. Aside from the billing system being inaccurate and issues in the collection process there are a ton of operational errors and oversights. Not just security issues, but also up-time, performance- and stability problems. The system is incapable of performing a proper bill-run and will fail a governance and a financial audit.

The government is too arrogant to scrape the project altogether and tax-payers will have to face a defunct system for years to come. With the exception of SARS (and even they are plagued with data-leaks, down-time and crashes, but are quite capable of managing the systems with their IT partners), there is no other government department which is capable of running IT properly without spending billions of Rands annually.

Have you been doing some 401 action with SANRAL. You know it is 403.

And I see you are already pointing out a good defence

 

[ToxicBunny]

From little IT-mice involved with the SANRAL project, I got whispers that the complete IT-infrastructure and implementation is a complete mess. If you think that COJ billing system is an abortion, re-think - SANRAL is several magnitudes worse. Aside from the billing system being inaccurate and issues in the collection process there are a ton of operational errors and oversights. Not just security issues, but also up-time, performance- and stability problems. The system is incapable of performing a proper bill-run and will fail a governance and a financial audit.

The government is too arrogant to scrape the project altogether and tax-payers will have to face a defunct system for years to come. With the exception of SARS (and even they are plagued with data-leaks, down-time and crashes, but are quite capable of managing the systems with their IT partners), there is no other government department which is capable of running IT properly without spending billions of Rands annually.

There is no real surprise here tbh.

I didn't expect their IT systems to be up to scratch. If they're even vaguely questionable then none of the invoices they send can be used for criminal cases if you ask me.

 

[hawker]

From little IT-mice involved with the SANRAL project, I got whispers that the complete IT-infrastructure and implementation is a complete mess. If you think that COJ billing system is an abortion, re-think - SANRAL is several magnitudes worse. Aside from the billing system being inaccurate and issues in the collection process there are a ton of operational errors and oversights. Not just security issues, but also up-time, performance- and stability problems. The system is incapable of performing a proper bill-run and will fail a governance and a financial audit.

The government is too arrogant to scrape the project altogether and tax-payers will have to face a defunct system for years to come. With the exception of SARS (and even they are plagued with data-leaks, down-time and crashes, but are quite capable of managing the systems with their IT partners), there is no other government department which is capable of running IT properly without spending billions of Rands annually.

Another nail in the coffin!

 

[LazyLion]

From little IT-mice involved with the SANRAL project, I got whispers that the complete IT-infrastructure and implementation is a complete mess. If you think that COJ billing system is an abortion, re-think - SANRAL is several magnitudes worse. Aside from the billing system being inaccurate and issues in the collection process there are a ton of operational errors and oversights. Not just security issues, but also up-time, performance- and stability problems. The system is incapable of performing a proper bill-run and will fail a governance and a financial audit.

The government is too arrogant to scrape the project altogether and tax-payers will have to face a defunct system for years to come. With the exception of SARS (and even they are plagued with data-leaks, down-time and crashes, but are quite capable of managing the systems with their IT partners), there is no other government department which is capable of running IT properly without spending billions of Rands annually.

Run it now, fix it later.

They can always throw out another Tender for Billions more Rand.

The Unwary public are an inexhaustible supply of money growing on trees!

 

[ToxicBunny]

Run it now, fix it later.

They can always throw out another Tender for Billions more Rand.

The Unwary public are an inexhaustible supply of money growing on trees!

Problem is, if the source of the data is dodge, then nothing you can do will fix it...

I would assume there is a fair amount of processing involved here, and large portions of the requirements to store and manage that data have been overlooked or just brushed aside as being "too expensive". All in all, this doesn't paint a good picture for SANRAL being able to follow through with its legal threats about charging people who don't pay criminally.

 

[LazyLion]

Problem is, if the source of the data is dodge, then nothing you can do will fix it...

I would assume there is a fair amount of processing involved here, and large portions of the requirements to store and manage that data have been overlooked or just brushed aside as being "too expensive". All in all, this doesn't paint a good picture for SANRAL being able to follow through with its legal threats about charging people who don't pay criminally.

Sorry, I should have said "fix" it later.... just keep telling the public it is fixed. After all the Government is allowed to tell lies in deceiving the evil counter-revolutionaries!

 

[IzZzy]

Another thing I thought of: They have created a ongoing system of revenue to "repay" debt created in a single instance. Once that debt is repaid, then what?