Official Crystal Web ADSL performance feedback thread Part 2...

Are you satisfied with your Crystal Web account?

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Crystal Web said:
It is not a material change that applies to them. It can, and only applies once we send notice of such changes, after the notice period. That is how the terms work. We've made them incredibly fair in this respect to customers precisely so that we cannot unilaterally change anything without affording customers a chance to amend their relationship with us. Not serving notice in and of itself, means the terms cannot and will not be enforced on anyone who signed a different set of terms. I do not understand how this is an issue in your eyes. It's the fair way to apply changes to customers.
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If it governs the usage of the product or service it is MATERIAL whether it affects the customer or not is irrelevant.
 
quovadis said:
If it governs the usage of the product or service it is MATERIAL whether it affects the customer or not is irrelevant.
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If i'm not mistaken, cw said they would send out notice to their customers closer to when this rule will be enforced.

So i dunno what you continue repeating yourself for?
 
quovadis said:
If you wish to take a stand against a customer making use of your terms and conditions then understand that you are just as bound by the conditions as the customer is. In addition to this I think it is prudent to note that if you offer a service or product that if there is a term and condition which is material to the product it should be included with the product description and not in a term and condition on another page even if the page is linked to by any means.

So the next inevitable question is - if I sign up for a Business Premium capped account (once your SSL is fixed) will I be subject to shaping based in any way whatsoever?
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careful, they may not take you up as a customer. all this could have been done in private.
 
quovadis said:
If you wish to take a stand against a customer making use of your terms and conditions then understand that you are just as bound by the conditions as the customer is.
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Sure. if you feel we've not abided by this, there are numerous avenues to adopt to take this up with us or other authorities.

quovadis said:
In addition to this I think it is prudent to note that if you offer a service or product that if there is a term and condition which is material to the product it should be included with the product description and not in a term and condition on another page even if the page is linked to by any means.
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OK, so we're repeating this now.

Our product descriptions are the most transparent in the market. All other ISPs simply link you to their terms, where you have to get to the FUP or AUP depending on what the end user's query is. Your proposal is a little short-sighted in that viewing for example under-age porn is not acceptable with Crystal Web. This is material to the product. Would you propose this, and all other aspects now move away from the terms and conditions, and into our product feature pages?

quovadis said:
So the next inevitable question is - if I sign up for a Business Premium capped account (once your SSL is fixed) will I be subject to shaping based in any way whatsoever?
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Our accounts perform as per the product FAQs. Business Capped has no set shaping in place. There's nothing to try to bypass and there's nothing else attached to the controllers that is in any way material to the product.
 
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quovadis said:
What cronies? And these are concerns which should concern you if you are/were/are to become a customer of CW.
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Doesn't concern me (Home Uncapped Premium 20Megs), Let me get the clan to come on and state whether it concerns them at all or not.

Also, I trust CW enough to know that they are always looking out for their clients first and not just their bottom line on the B/S - Many customers from CW will agree with this.
 
quovadis said:
How is enquiring on a product something that needs to be done in private? I am asking product advice - its not a sensitive thing.
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looks like you are arguing. why not pick up the phone and give them a call? $10 says you could have resolved all this in a quarter of the time you spent on it now.

time management much?
 
quovadis said:
If it governs the usage of the product or service it is MATERIAL whether it affects the customer or not is irrelevant.
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It governs the usage of the product to those who have agreed to them. Existing customers have not agreed to them. It does not apply. You are asking us to make them apply to customers for whom we don't wish to do so yet. I don't think that's a reasonable demand on us, nor our existing customers.
 
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Crystal Web said:
It governs the usage of the product to those who have agreed to them. Existing customers have not agreed to them. It does not apply. You are asking us to make them apply to customers for whom we don't wish to do so yet. I don't think that's a reasonable demand on us, nor our existing customers.
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Your terms state that you can amend your terms and will ordinarily give 20 days prior notice in the event that an amendment is made. An amendment has been made. Whether the term is enforceable or will be enforced or if it is reasonable or not reasonable is irrelevant.
 
quovadis said:
I didn't write their terms - They did. Would be nice if they abided by them but OK. Whatever.
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In my eyes, I don't see anything wrong. Also asked a friend to see what he thinks of it and he says that it shouldn't be a problem until the rule is actually enforced, they will need to give 20 days notice before they enforce the rule.
 
quovadis said:
Your terms state that you can amend your terms and will ordinarily give 20 days prior notice in the event that an amendment is made. An amendment has been made. Whether the term is enforceable or will be enforced or if it is reasonable or not reasonable is irrelevant.
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Such an amendment has been made for new customers. That same amendment does not apply to existing customers. It can and only applies once we send notice. You're requesting that we enforce this on existing customers before we wish to, due to an interpretation of our terms which you wish as a non-customer to be enforced on everyone, for what gain or purpose I do not know.

We have various agreements and terms, some different, with various customers. Some even have contracts, some have terms completely different to those you quoted. Some have amended payment terms. Every company is entitled to have a different set of terms for different customers and customer-sets. In this case, a different set of Ts and Cs apply to existing customers to those on the website at the moment. i.e. that clause is not in there and does not apply. Those customers are bound by the older set of terms until such time as notice is served when we are prepared and wish to enforce those terms on existing customers. I trust that this answers your query now sufficiently? It's pretty much just repetition of what we've been saying since this back and forth began.
 
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quovadis said:
I didn't write their terms - They did. Would be nice if they abided by them but OK. Whatever.
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We have. Such an accusation is very serious. Please do direct this sort of accusation to [email protected] for us to address as a formal investigation and dispute.

Such an accusation will now no longer be debated publicly as it has moved away from a debate entirely.
 
Crystal Web said:
We have. Such an accusation is very serious. Please do direct this sort of accusation to [email protected] for us to address as a formal investigation and dispute.

Such an accusation will now no longer be debated publicly as it has moved away from a debate entirely.
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Your terms:

2. Crystal Web is constantly striving to improve our services to you and therefore we may amend this agreement. While we will ordinarily give you at least 20 working days’ notice of any change by electronic mail, exceptional circumstances may require an immediate change made in our sole discretion.
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As read above you are referring to a change in the agreement. By your own admission you added an entire paragraph to this agreement and hence you made a CHANGE. The quote above does not imply "20 working days notice of any enforcement of a change" but states "20 working days notice of ANY CHANGE".

Any reasonable person would be able to see the difference.
 
quovadis said:
Your terms:



As read above you are referring to a change in the agreement. By your own admission you added an entire paragraph to this agreement and hence you made a CHANGE. The quote above does not imply "20 working days notice of any enforcement of a change" but states "20 working days notice of ANY CHANGE".

Any reasonable person would be able to see the difference.
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Please direct this query to [email protected]

Thank you
 
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