SA Politics Thread Part 11: The GNU Normal

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R13... said:
Did you hate that a minority subjugated and oppressed a majority for decades stifling said majority's development and participation in the main economy, limiting career choices and educational options?
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From a purely military point of view, this is literally how and why wars have been fought since the dawn of humanity, to establish dominance and control over territory. The majority should have fought to retain control over the territory.

If anything people to get off lightly during apartheid by just just being separated and excluded from sectors of the economy, in the past entire civilisations were either wiped out or completely dominated. France, Spain Germany, Belgium etc. aren't still sour about the Italians subjugating and enslaving them for centuries.

Not condoning apartheid, just pointing out that control over territories and resources have been a thing since the very start. It's time to move on and work towards the bigger picture of everyone prospering. Or we're never getting out of 1% growth. Our politicians don't actually care about apartheid, they just use it to tug at the emotions...
 
TheChamp said:
John is probably in preservation mode by now, his Ministerial pension is the security of his family, Mrs Beaumont will never tolerate anything that seeks to jeopardize that.
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images
 
I can see the argument coming out again that only whites can be racist

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Sideshow Bob said:
You guys know that below is as vague as it gets, right ? Take just one line "Strengthening law enforcement agencies"

LOL - this "agreement " ?

"


Statement of intent of the 2024 Government of National Unity – ANC

www.anc1912.org.za www.anc1912.org.za
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It had to be drafted within 2 weeks, what did you expect? There's a reason why coalition agreements in other countries take months to work out. In any event the strengthening of law enforcement isn't the thing being discussed, it's what constitutes consensus, and that is more clearly defined...
 
MalcomZ said:
DA briefing today and this stroy probably also publishing today as it didn't at yesterday's deadline. 🍿

The DA is about to have one rough day that turns into an even rougher week! Love it. 🙂

https://twitter.com/x/status/1954780696678949061
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They should have pulled out much earlier.
Maybe best thing is that all collapses, sometimes people need to learn hard way.
And who knows if euro hits R50 I might pay off my house in one go.
 
aleksandar said:
They should have pulled out much earlier.
Maybe best thing is that all collapses, sometimes people need to learn hard way.
And who knows if euro hits R50 I might pay off my house in one go.
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Property is not an investment anymore
Something else that has changed in the last 20 years
They still think owning property is the definition of wealth
LOL . 0.5 to 2% return per year is not wealth creation
 
Mike Hoxbig said:
It had to be drafted within 2 weeks, what did you expect? There's a reason why coalition agreements in other countries take months to work out. In any event the strengthening of law enforcement isn't the thing being discussed, it's what constitutes consensus, and that is more clearly defined...
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Consensus will be on different points of intent and one point is "Strengthening law enforcement agencies"

ANC's understanding of this will be totally different than anyone else. That is all I am saying. It is ridiculous to call this as agreement or a contract. It is neither. It is just statement of intent that can be used as TP by ANC and they will continue doing so.
 
Sideshow Bob said:
Consensus will be on different points of intent and one point is "Strengthening law enforcement agencies"

ANC's understanding of this will be totally different than anyone else. That is all I am saying. It is ridiculous to call this as agreement or a contract. It is neither. It is just statement of intent that can be used as TP by ANC and they will continue doing so.
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That goes for any contract. It's only as valuable as the people who honour it. Not honouring what you agree to only hurts yourself, as nobody will trust you enough to get involved with you again. ASA is finding that out in GP too, so it's not just a DA thing.

They may as well just shack up with the EFF and MK since they share the same sort of ethics, let's see how that fight over power and positions works out...
 
Sideshow Bob said:
Consensus will be on different points of intent and one point is "Strengthening law enforcement agencies"

ANC's understanding of this will be totally different than anyone else. That is all I am saying. It is ridiculous to call this as agreement or a contract. It is neither. It is just statement of intent that can be used as TP by ANC and they will continue doing so.
Click to expand...
I love the decoys...
 
Mike Hoxbig said:
From a purely military point of view, this is literally how and why wars have been fought since the dawn of humanity, to establish dominance and control over territory. The majority should have fought to retain control over the territory.

If anything people to get off lightly during apartheid by just just being separated and excluded from sectors of the economy, in the past entire civilisations were either wiped out or completely dominated. France, Spain Germany, Belgium etc. aren't still sour about the Italians subjugating and enslaving them for centuries.

Not condoning apartheid, just pointing out that control over territories and resources have been a thing since the very start. It's time to move on and work towards the bigger picture of everyone prospering. Or we're never getting out of 1% growth. Our politicians don't actually care about apartheid, they just use it to tug at the emotions...
Click to expand...
I was not really making comment on the rightness of victors. Major something has a habit of making casually racist posts, I know what he was thinking. Those majority/minority posts are stupid and pointless. It doesn't matter if you're a minority or majority was the point i was making.

Yes the economy isn't underperforming due to apartheid. Its because of the ANC's refusal to abandon archaic ideological positions then blaming apartheid for their failures and worsening corruption.
 
R13... said:
Did you hate that a minority subjugated and oppressed a majority for decades stifling said majority's development and participation in the main economy, limiting career choices and educational options?
Click to expand...
Mike Hoxbig said:
It's time to move on and work towards the bigger picture of everyone prospering. Or we're never getting out of 1% growth. Our politicians don't actually care about apartheid, they just use it to tug at the emotions...
Click to expand...
Sure, but you can't declare in your Constitution of all things that you are non-racial and five minutes later, you implement a suite of racial policies in the name of "transformation".

You won't fix the effects of previous racial policies by implementing more of them...

And anyway, the current racial "redress" policies haven't fixed the problem; it's only given the ANC the gap to create an ANC-aligned elite and to loot the state dry. Not to mention the racial divisions these policies cause.

The only way this country will progress is to implement non-racial, effective, redress and growth policies that grow the economy, provide opportunities, create jobs, formalise township businesses, etc, etc.

And the saddest thing is, just like NP utilised Swart Gevaar to get the White community to form a laager when criticised, the ANC utilises Apartheid to form laagers with the Black community (the people who get screwed the most by these policies, since it only benefits cadres and their connections) when anyone points out the failures of the racial policies or their ****-ups in general.

And honestly, if there weren't redress policies even and the ANC didn't loot everything available, spent the money on the right things from the start, SA as a whole would be a lot better off.

@Sideshow Bob
@TheChamp
@MalcomZ
 
Mike Hoxbig said:
That goes for any contract. It's only as valuable as the people who honour it. Not honouring what you agree to only hurts yourself, as nobody will trust you enough to get involved with you again. ASA is finding that out in GP too, so it's not just a DA thing.

They may as well just shack up with the EFF and MK since they share the same sort of ethics, let's see how that fight over power and positions works out...
Click to expand...
Look at it this way. If you want a 100% "principled" coalition and assuming DA is 0% corrupt (LOL), then DA cannot enter into coalition with anyone really.

But with the understanding that there is no way all opposition parties have done corruption (not talking about potential/unproven corruption) to the levels of ANC, maybe DA & others can work out deal to be monolithic against ANC (a sort of non-ANC mini-GNU within GNU but against ANC), then they will stand some chance to negotiate.

If you are compromising principles, that they have done already with ANC, then you might as well compromise with parties that haven't been as corrupt as ANC. Potential for corruption doesn't matter - have they actually been as corrupt as ANC ? Nope - so why not side with them instead of uber-corrupt ANC ?

Of course, corruption is just one point. With exception of VF+, DA is not likely to be in consensus with others with any other parties on many other points.
 
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