The truth about Openweb

elvis_presley said:
In other words, the accounts have already been sold twice, he doesn't need to triple-bill this lot :)
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Omg. This makes so much more sense now.

I'd love to see this taken further. Makes me so disgusted when a IT company misleads people and being just plain lairs about it.
 
Just correct me here. The offer is an uncapped, priority time shaped account for x amount of money. The background to how the account is constructed etc surely has no bearing on what is offered? I buy a 4 meg account as described above and it works at 4 meg (barring any major disfunctions), do i really care if the account is shared? Surely this is the same principle as contention ratios? I mean it's bandwidth spread over x amount of users. What is the difference?
 
Wasp_21 said:
Just correct me here. The offer is an uncapped, priority time shaped account for x amount of money. The background to how the account is constructed etc surely has no bearing on what is offered? I buy a 4 meg account as described above and it works at 4 meg (barring any major disfunctions), do i really care if the account is shared? Surely this is the same principle as contention ratios? I mean it's bandwidth spread over x amount of users. What is the difference?
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All 3 logins would accumulate traffic to the same account; because IS uses that silly star rating, you'd be shaped /star-degraded much earlier than if you had an unshared account.

That, plus they're probably be contravening IS reselling agreements; not a consumer problem, but it would highlight the kind of company you're dealing with. I'd rather pay the same amount of monies for the same product to someone honest.
 
elvis_presley said:
All 3 logins would accumulate traffic to the same account; because IS uses that silly star rating, you'd be shaped /star-degraded much earlier than if you had an unshared account.

That, plus they're probably be contravening IS reselling agreements; not a consumer problem, but it would highlight the kind of company you're dealing with. I'd rather pay the same amount of monies for the same product to someone honest.
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How do we know that the "star" rating is applicable to these accounts? perhaps this is excluded in their reselling agreement? Further, how do we know what is in the agreement? Again, I come back to contention ratios, or whatever it may be called. How do we know that instead of 20 users on a pipe each with their own log in details, is not what is being done, but instead doing 3 login details with 6 users per. 20 vs 20 is it not?
 
elvis_presley said:
All 3 logins would accumulate traffic to the same account; because IS uses that silly star rating, you'd be shaped /star-degraded much earlier than if you had an unshared account.

That, plus they're probably be contravening IS reselling agreements; not a consumer problem, but it would highlight the kind of company you're dealing with. I'd rather pay the same amount of monies for the same product to someone honest.
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That explains a great deal doesn't it.
Let's be honest here, it doesn't matter which ISP I use now, excepting OW, the issues I have had, never returned, ever.
And this time I am very sure I am not "sharing", amazing things are happening, like my e-mails go through to the intended recipients, etc...
 
Was thinking the same. So what if you sharing an account? Theoretically, what's the difference between a line with a 5:1 contention ratio and a line shared with 5 other users?

Of course it's not that simple (moral and ethical issues aside) but in essence would the effect on performance not be similar?
 
Wasp_21 said:
How do we know that the "star" rating is applicable to these accounts? perhaps this is excluded in their reselling agreement? Further, how do we know what is in the agreement? Again, I come back to contention ratios, or whatever it may be called. How do we know that instead of 20 users on a pipe each with their own log in details, is not what is being done, but instead doing 3 login details with 6 users per. 20 vs 20 is it not?
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Either of us could be right, but Occam's razor applies. You have a lot of assumptions - I've tried to avoid that, and my guess just applies the AUP rules which are readily available.

If the far larger WebAfrica can't get around the IS account limits legally, I don't see OpenWeb getting any special treatment from them. Your thing about contention ratios was a bit unclear and engrish-y and the numbers didn't really add up, so I can't comment on that.

For me though, if they are double-selling (I'd like to see that proof mentioned in the original post) that'd be enough not to deal with a dishonest company.
 
elvis_presley said:
Either of us could be right, but Occam's razor applies. You have a lot of assumptions - I've tried to avoid that, and my guess just applies the AUP rules which are readily available.

If the far larger WebAfrica can't get around the IS account limits legally, I don't see OpenWeb getting any special treatment from them. Your thing about contention ratios was a bit unclear and engrish-y and the numbers didn't really add up, so I can't comment on that.

For me though, if they are double-selling (I'd like to see that proof mentioned in the original post) that'd be enough not to deal with a dishonest company.
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Fair enough. It is the assumptions from previous posts that i drew my assumptions, as i can't say i have seen any proof of agreements etc. Basically what i was trying to describe was, on a performance base only, 20 users per pipe is the same as 20 users per pipe, regardless of how these 20 log into it. Hopefully clearer.
 
sand_man said:
Was thinking the same. So what if you sharing an account? Theoretically, what's the difference between a line with a 5:1 contention ratio and a line shared with 5 other users
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The best explanation of IS shaping is here

http://support.webafrica.co.za/inde...w/1141/0/web-africa-uncapped-adsl-star-rating

You're misunderstanding contention ratios - it's about changing your "star rating" quicker. If you share an account with 5 other people, everything all 5 users do will count against your star rating. So (for example) when Game of Thrones comes out, the 4 people sharing your account each download 1.2gig (720p or nothing!) and suddenly you have 4.8gig P2P traffic on your account and your star rating drops, and wonder why your youtube is buffering.
 
Wasp_21 said:
Fair enough. It is the assumptions from previous posts that i drew my assumptions, as i can't say i have seen any proof of agreements etc. Basically what i was trying to describe was, on a performance base only, 20 users per pipe is the same as 20 users per pipe, regardless of how these 20 log into it. Hopefully clearer.
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Yes, from a network backbone point of view you're 100% correct, it wouldn't make a difference, but to borrow an awful analogy from the net neutrality debate, IS have 5 "lanes" - you're in the 5* fast lane, where there's say 1000 units of bandwidth you're all sharing. Sweet. Everything's fast. If you're kicked to the slow lane (more chance with account sharing), you'll be in the 4* lane where there's say 750 units of bandwidth allocated. Those 20 users you mention are now sharing slices of a smaller pipe, so everyone slows down.
 
elvis_presley said:
The best explanation of IS shaping is here

http://support.webafrica.co.za/inde...w/1141/0/web-africa-uncapped-adsl-star-rating

You're misunderstanding contention ratios - it's about changing your "star rating" quicker. If you share an account with 5 other people, everything all 5 users do will count against your star rating. So (for example) when Game of Thrones comes out, the 4 people sharing your account each download 1.2gig (720p or nothing!) and suddenly you have 4.8gig P2P traffic on your account and your star rating drops, and wonder why your youtube is buffering.
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Aah, ok. I see now. But then what would explain the "day light" shaping, but "open evening" and then the weekend unshaped periods? So the 2 or 3 other people sharing my account download x amount putting the account in the red, but during the day it sucks and at night it is normal.
 
elvis_presley said:
Yes, from a network backbone point of view you're 100% correct, it wouldn't make a difference, but to borrow an awful analogy from the net neutrality debate, IS have 5 "lanes" - you're in the 5* fast lane, where there's say 1000 units of bandwidth you're all sharing. Sweet. Everything's fast. If you're kicked to the slow lane (more chance with account sharing), you'll be in the 4* lane where there's say 750 units of bandwidth allocated. Those 20 users you mention are now sharing slices of a smaller pipe, so everyone slows down.
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thanks for this.
 
Wasp_21 said:
Aah, ok. I see now. But then what would explain the "day light" shaping, but "open evening" and then the weekend unshaped periods? So the 2 or 3 other people sharing my account download x amount putting the account in the red, but during the day it sucks and at night it is normal.
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Lots of bandwidth still costs lots of money, and internet companies can only afford a limited amount - business pay more than consumers, so they get priority, and most their traffic is during business hours. This would mean consumer accounts are generally slower during the day - this is where contention ratios are coming in to things. The ISP shaping (star ratings, p2p shaping, etc) would be on top of this.
 
Wasp_21 said:
Aah, ok. I see now. But then what would explain the "day light" shaping, but "open evening" and then the weekend unshaped periods? So the 2 or 3 other people sharing my account download x amount putting the account in the red, but during the day it sucks and at night it is normal.
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Daytime sucks because the accounts have been "abused" and are on 1 star (IMHO). 1 star is unusable during the day.

Of course, OW will deny this, but to prove them wrong, go buy an IC account and see the difference! Oh, and you not sharing with anyone with IC, unless you give your details to someone as they also allow 2 concurrent connections.

Abuse the IC account to 1 star and you will feel the same kuk performance during daytime.

Star rating has no to minimal effect after 5pm.
 
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