Wiring distributuion box

Swa. please. From your posts it is very clear that you know sweet f*&ck all about rewiring your DB. Please just get an electrician in to do it before you kill yourself or someone.
 
I have a different view. The more ordinary people get involved in understanding the basics and take the trouble to familiarise themselves with what the regulations say, the better. It is the ONLY way to get to grips with shoddy workmanship passed of as compliant.

Fear comes from the lack of knowledge about how to handle electricity.
 
Geoff.D said:
I have a different view. The more ordinary people get involved in understanding the basics and take the trouble to familiarise themselves with what the regulations say, the better. It is the ONLY way to get to grips with shoddy workmanship passed of as compliant.

Fear comes from the lack of knowledge about how to handle electricity.
Click to expand...

That's all good and fine, by all means learn from an actual electrician but don't think you can go learn and search what you think you should know from google.
 
Drake2007 said:
That's all good and fine, by all means learn from an actual electrician but don't think you can go learn and search what you think you should know from google.
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Anyone with an engineering degree should be able to research sufficiently well to be able to learn what is required and how to interpret the regulations.

As already indicated, Electricians do not do the work, their appies do it, and they just check. But you can't check what you can't see. And appies left to their own devices will not always do the right thing. Once those wires are in the conduits and the wrong gauge is used, how do you know it?
 
Geoff.D said:
Anyone with an engineering degree should be able to research sufficiently well to be able to learn what is required and how to interpret the regulations.

As already indicated, Electricians do not do the work, their appies do it, and they just check. But you can't check what you can't see. And appies left to their own devices will not always do the right thing. Once those wires are in the conduits and the wrong gauge is used, how do you know it?
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So you're saying what exactly?

Don't use electricians who have trained and studied for the job they're doing because the appy does the job?
The layman can go read up and he's going to know even more than that appy as well?

When you go to the garage to refuel do you pump your own or let the attendant do it? Because with your engineering degree you should be doing a better job at pumping that same fuel because hey you read up about it.
 
Drake2007 said:
So you're saying what exactly?

Don't use electricians who have trained and studied for the job they're doing because the appy does the job?
The layman can go read up and he's going to know even more than that appy as well?

When you go to the garage to refuel do you pump your own or let the attendant do it? Because with your engineering degree you should be doing a better job at pumping that same fuel because hey you read up about it.
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I can certainly pump fuel better than the average SA pump attendant. I have international experience in several countries as do millions of people worldwide. Bad example to use! Stupid law in SA prohibiting Self Serve at garages.
 
Geoff.D said:
I have a different view. The more ordinary people get involved in understanding the basics and take the trouble to familiarise themselves with what the regulations say, the better. It is the ONLY way to get to grips with shoddy workmanship passed of as compliant.

Fear comes from the lack of knowledge about how to handle electricity.
Click to expand...

Agree with this.
First thing to do is figure out where your incoming hot is and isolate it safely. Thereafter self study is fine IMO.
Also, never take anyone's word for it when they say it's off - always check yourself - and make sure everyone in the building knows you're doing maintenance so they don't check the DB and flip the switch while you're in the ceiling.. thinking they're doing everyone a favour. Preferably a big sticky note saying DON'T TOUCH.

I agree you're not going to become an engineer without studying but wiring a DB in the average home is not top level stuff... it's learning to recognise when you're out of your depth that really counts.
 
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Sabre Wulf said:
Agree with this.
First thing to do is figure out where your incoming hot is and isolate it safely. Thereafter self study is fine IMO.
Also, never take anyone's word for it when they say it's off - always check yourself - and make sure everyone in the building knows you're doing maintenance so they don't check the DB and flip the switch while you're in the ceiling.. thinking they're doing everyone a favour. Preferably a big sticky note saying DON'T TOUCH.

I agree you're not going to become an engineer without studying but wiring a DB in the average home is not top level stuff... it's learning to recognise when you're out of your depth that really counts.
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Pecisely. It is about awareness of the consequences of your actions and knowing the risks you take. BTW, the scenario you sketch IS the reason why any remote electrical device such as a geyser MUST be wired via a Double Pole isolator at the geyser as well, regardless of what has been provided in DB board -- to protect anyone working on that device.
 
Drake2007 said:
So you're saying what exactly?

Don't use electricians who have trained and studied for the job they're doing because the appy does the job?
The layman can go read up and he's going to know even more than that appy as well?

When you go to the garage to refuel do you pump your own or let the attendant do it? Because with your engineering degree you should be doing a better job at pumping that same fuel because hey you read up about it.
Click to expand...

If that were only true all the time -- that electricians and their appies know the regulations. NO my argument is that a layman can study up on a subject to make sure he knows what the professional is supposed to be doing for him and that then allows him to be more aware.

An unsupervised appy left to his own devices or a poorly trained appy is a danger to everyone. The trained electrician is supposed to ensure that his appy knows what he is doing, knows what components to install, how to install them etc.

I am saying that a layman who has taken the trouble to find out what is required and has then taken on the task of doing the work himself is as good as an unsupervised assistant doing the work.

I have a very jaded view about this whole business, having over many many years been exposed to the work undertaken by others'. I can spend the rest of the day giving you examples and if necessary providing you photos o to illustrate those examples.

In PTA, I have recently been exposed to the work undertaken by three different electricians for the inspection and then correction and fixing of an installation before the issuing of a COC because the property now being sold.

Only one of those three did the work properly, was prepared to explain and justify what he was doing and why it was required. Incidentally, he was also the one that could explain his invoice as well. The repair work he undertook was neat and thoroughly done.

In the one case, the previous owner was charged R 12 000 for the COC including the supposed correction work. The work was undertaken by his assistants. The inspections were undertaken by the assistants. The electrician never showed his face, just delivered the COC in an envelope pushed in the letterbox.

Some of the issues.

(1) It apparently was necessary to reduce the number of outlets on some of the existing CBs. New wiring was done and new CBs installed, BUT those new circuits were not earthed in the DB board
(2) Isolators were installed at remote motorized gates BUT NOT ALL the items using the power were fed via the added isolator.
(3) It was ruled that all open connection boxes in the ceiling had to be provided with covers. the covers were then just placed over the connection boxes, still in their wrappings.
(4) a Jacussi that was fed off a wall socket was provided with a separate dual pole isolator and it own E/L in the DB board, But another plug circuit right next to the Jacussi within reach of anyone in the Jacussi was left out of the re-wire.
(5) The COC itself has a hand written comment specifically excluding any devices plugged into sockets from the inspection. When challenged, the Electrician used that written note to try and dodge around his clearly shoddy work.

There is enough work in that premises to keep a trained electrician busy for a month before a valid COC can be issued. Yet the sale went through the transfer lawyers and the estate agent are happy. The previous owner was happy until he found himself facing legal action to recover the monies required to bring the property up to spec. And that after forking out R 12 000 already.
 
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Geoff.D said:
If that were only true all the time -- that electricians and their appies know the regulations. NO my argument is that a layman can study up on a subject to make sure he knows what the professional is supposed to be doing for him and that then allows him to be more aware.
Click to expand...

I bought a home with wiring certificate that should have never been issued. Turns out the guy who issued it was the nephew of the seller.
 
Sabre Wulf said:
I bought a home with wiring certificate that should have never been issued. Turns out the guy who issued it was the nephew of the seller.
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Lol. Happened to me too. Then tile s started lifting to boot. House tripping main on street so had to call municipality to switch on..Voets toets needs to change
 
I once witnessed an electrician who had around 20 years experience wiring the output of a UPS to a 3 prong plug which he connected to the circuit it feeds via one of the sockets near the UPS.
Seriously. Just because it works doesn't mean it won't kill someone one day.
 
Sabre Wulf said:
I once witnessed an electrician who had around 20 years experience wiring the output of a UPS to a 3 prong plug which he connected to the circuit it feeds via one of the sockets near the UPS.
Seriously. Just because it works doesn't mean it won't kill someone one day.
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Temp solution?
 
Sabre Wulf said:
^^ :crylaugh:
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Was a serious question, don't know if he stays alone etc, thought maybe someone who knows him here and has a way to call or something... but I see he's now been on since in other threads:)
 
Drake2007 said:
That's all good and fine, by all means learn from an actual electrician but don't think you can go learn and search what you think you should know from google.
Click to expand...
You're talking to people here who are the original inventors of ethernet over powerline. Except that we didn't have computers back then and the only use of it was to send morse code to your next door friend. Really we did a lot more unsafe stuff experimenting like to wire mains transformers backwards. If more people familiarised themselves with electricity and what is dangerous there would be less accidents. I know how to do the wiring, google tells me where I should do it. There is a big difference between the two and which one is the dangerous one, if you don't know why I asked the specific questions I did it's not a reflection of my knowledge.

Drake2007 said:
So you're saying what exactly?

Don't use electricians who have trained and studied for the job they're doing because the appy does the job?
The layman can go read up and he's going to know even more than that appy as well?

When you go to the garage to refuel do you pump your own or let the attendant do it? Because with your engineering degree you should be doing a better job at pumping that same fuel because hey you read up about it.
Click to expand...
Actually in the states you DO pump your own fuel. In SA it's done for you as a convenience just like packing groceries (don't tell me it's done for you because you wouldn't know how) but also because of theft. I would welcome inserting my card to pay and then pump my own but I guess that will only happen if we change the regs and unions.

Sabre Wulf said:
Agree with this.
First thing to do is figure out where your incoming hot is and isolate it safely. Thereafter self study is fine IMO.
Also, never take anyone's word for it when they say it's off - always check yourself - and make sure everyone in the building knows you're doing maintenance so they don't check the DB and flip the switch while you're in the ceiling.. thinking they're doing everyone a favour. Preferably a big sticky note saying DON'T TOUCH.

I agree you're not going to become an engineer without studying but wiring a DB in the average home is not top level stuff... it's learning to recognise when you're out of your depth that really counts.
Click to expand...
LOL good point. Luckily the one in the house besides me is my mom and she wouldn't flip the switch unless she wants me dead. :D
 
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