nauseous_monkey
17-01-2008, 01:01 PM
I have been watching a large amount of the series 'Cosmos' by Carl Sagan and was wondering. What it the large glowing center to our galaxy? And why is it that the galaxy is spiraled?
View Full Version : Our Galaxy
Scooby_Doo
17-01-2008, 01:05 PM
large cluster of stars in the center and since the milkyway is spinning everything (stars etc) are betting "thrown" outwards, sure there is more too it than that and don't ask me why there are like spiral "arms" if you know what i mean.
Surv0
17-01-2008, 01:27 PM
Also been watching the same series.. only seen the first couple of episodes... a little slow for me but they did mention in the beginning that its based on ideas and theories that came about before science could confirm or deny them. So i think there are a few inconsistencies . Dont we have a black whole at the center of our galaxy?
Scooby_Doo
17-01-2008, 01:28 PM
yip massive black hole.
nauseous_monkey
17-01-2008, 01:30 PM
Yeah, it is a very slow series. I only watched episode one last night, but I love Carl Sagan, he is willing to go beyond just blunt fact and hypothesize...
I especially felt both exited and sad when I saw the bit on The Library of Alexanderia.
I especially felt both exited and sad when I saw the bit on The Library of Alexanderia.
nauseous_monkey
17-01-2008, 01:32 PM
yip massive black hole.
In other words: Moons around planets, planets around sun, sun around black hole? Nice!
Makes me think...
I know Planet becomes Sun and Sun becomes Black hole?
Is there a very concrete pattern of evolution here?
In other words: Moons around planets, planets around sun, sun around black hole? Nice!
Makes me think...
I know Planet becomes Sun and Sun becomes Black hole?
Is there a very concrete pattern of evolution here?
Surv0
17-01-2008, 02:01 PM
planets dont become suns afaik..
they die and become barron sandy balls of matter which will eventually be consumed by the universe.
Black holes come from dying stars which cave into themselves.
they die and become barron sandy balls of matter which will eventually be consumed by the universe.
Black holes come from dying stars which cave into themselves.
phenom
17-01-2008, 02:25 PM
I have been watching a large amount of the series 'Cosmos' by Carl Sagan and was wondering. What it the large glowing center to our galaxy? And why is it that the galaxy is spiraled?
heres a view
http://youtube.com/watch?v=PYDVC_fPc8I
good question, i was always asking my self, why is it that water always whirlpools in a clockwise motion in the into the center of the sink
?
heres a view
http://youtube.com/watch?v=PYDVC_fPc8I
good question, i was always asking my self, why is it that water always whirlpools in a clockwise motion in the into the center of the sink
?
Scooby_Doo
17-01-2008, 02:32 PM
In other words: Moons around planets, planets around sun, sun around black hole? Nice!
Makes me think...
I know Planet becomes Sun and Sun becomes Black hole?
Is there a very concrete pattern of evolution here?
only the very massive stars that go super nova can create black holes, like our sun is not big enough to collapse into a black hole.
http://www.saintjoe.edu/~dept14/environment/rogero/core5/celestial_compare.html
this shows some of the stars that are out there as we can see we got a pretty small sun.
Makes me think...
I know Planet becomes Sun and Sun becomes Black hole?
Is there a very concrete pattern of evolution here?
only the very massive stars that go super nova can create black holes, like our sun is not big enough to collapse into a black hole.
http://www.saintjoe.edu/~dept14/environment/rogero/core5/celestial_compare.html
this shows some of the stars that are out there as we can see we got a pretty small sun.
Moederloos
17-01-2008, 02:35 PM
yip massive black hole.
Ivy??
planets dont become suns afaik..
they die and become barron sandy balls of matter which will eventually be consumed by the universe.
Black holes come from dying stars which cave into themselves.
Yeah - I do not know what bizarro science thing that came from, but I too have heard people say that.
A planet cannot and will not ever become a sun - it is just way too small.
Its like expecting the peach on your dining room table to blow up like James and the Giant Peach - and even then - that result would still be too small to become a sun.
Jupiter, way more massive than earth, is way smaller than our sun - and a long way from even brown dwarf status.
Ivy??
planets dont become suns afaik..
they die and become barron sandy balls of matter which will eventually be consumed by the universe.
Black holes come from dying stars which cave into themselves.
Yeah - I do not know what bizarro science thing that came from, but I too have heard people say that.
A planet cannot and will not ever become a sun - it is just way too small.
Its like expecting the peach on your dining room table to blow up like James and the Giant Peach - and even then - that result would still be too small to become a sun.
Jupiter, way more massive than earth, is way smaller than our sun - and a long way from even brown dwarf status.
Surv0
17-01-2008, 02:44 PM
good question, i was always asking my self, why is it that water always whirlpools in a clockwise motion in the into the center of the sink?
Water wirlpools clockwise in the southern hemisphere and anticlockwise in the northern hemisphere.
On the equater water moves straight down the whole with no spinning.
There is actually a tourist attraction on the equator in one of the countries crossing it, where you can watch water move straight down ;p
although there are people saying its a myth, ive seen it first hand, it actually did spin in different directions in different hemispheres.
Water wirlpools clockwise in the southern hemisphere and anticlockwise in the northern hemisphere.
On the equater water moves straight down the whole with no spinning.
There is actually a tourist attraction on the equator in one of the countries crossing it, where you can watch water move straight down ;p
although there are people saying its a myth, ive seen it first hand, it actually did spin in different directions in different hemispheres.
Scooby_Doo
17-01-2008, 03:14 PM
Water wirlpools clockwise in the southern hemisphere and anticlockwise in the northern hemisphere.
On the equater water moves straight down the whole with no spinning.
There is actually a tourist attraction on the equator in one of the countries crossing it, where you can watch water move straight down ;p
although there are people saying its a myth, ive seen it first hand, it actually did spin in different directions in different hemispheres.
tried it and went the same direction in london as here apparently the shape of the basin is more of a factor than the coriolis effect. So if you had a perfectly round basin and moved it between the south and north of the equator, maybe...
On the equater water moves straight down the whole with no spinning.
There is actually a tourist attraction on the equator in one of the countries crossing it, where you can watch water move straight down ;p
although there are people saying its a myth, ive seen it first hand, it actually did spin in different directions in different hemispheres.
tried it and went the same direction in london as here apparently the shape of the basin is more of a factor than the coriolis effect. So if you had a perfectly round basin and moved it between the south and north of the equator, maybe...
mercurial
17-01-2008, 03:17 PM
you should watch the series called The Universe. it's on the history channel...and on the site of which we don't speak of :p
Surv0
17-01-2008, 03:25 PM
tried it and went the same direction in london as here apparently the shape of the basin is more of a factor than the coriolis effect. So if you had a perfectly round basin and moved it between the south and north of the equator, maybe...
Yeah heard about the shape of the basin being a factor... let say its perfectly round to prove a point :)
Yeah heard about the shape of the basin being a factor... let say its perfectly round to prove a point :)
Highflyer_GP
17-01-2008, 03:32 PM
There's an awesome BBC documentary called BBC Space. It's 6 parts, part 1 deals with exactly these kinds of questions.
Basically when a large star goes supernova, it collapses under it's own weight leaving behind a black hole. All the hydrogen gas and particles that escape the black hole's event horizon after the explosion then form large gas clouds. The remnants of the explosion then start bonding to each other and swirling around in the gas cloud. As the temperatures increase, another star is born, and there is a second explosion. However the gravity of the new star keeps the particles from the second explosion orbiting around it as it rotates. The remnants of this second explosion then form the planets, in much the same way that the star was born after the original supernova. That's how we get solar systems. Therefore planets don't become stars, they are formed after the star itself is formed.
Basically when a large star goes supernova, it collapses under it's own weight leaving behind a black hole. All the hydrogen gas and particles that escape the black hole's event horizon after the explosion then form large gas clouds. The remnants of the explosion then start bonding to each other and swirling around in the gas cloud. As the temperatures increase, another star is born, and there is a second explosion. However the gravity of the new star keeps the particles from the second explosion orbiting around it as it rotates. The remnants of this second explosion then form the planets, in much the same way that the star was born after the original supernova. That's how we get solar systems. Therefore planets don't become stars, they are formed after the star itself is formed.
mercurial
17-01-2008, 03:35 PM
There's an awesome BBC documentary called BBC Space. It's 6 parts, part 1 deals with exactly these kinds of questions.
Basically when a large star goes supernova, it collapses under it's own weight leaving behind a black hole. All the hydrogen gas and particles that escape the black hole's event horizon after the explosion then form large gas clouds. The remnants of the explosion then start bonding to each other and swirling around in the gas cloud. As the temperatures increase, another star is born, and there is a second explosion. However the gravity of the new star keeps the particles from the second explosion orbiting around it as it rotates. The remnants of this second explosion then form the planets, in much the same way that the star was born after the original supernova. That's how we get solar systems. Therefore planets don't become stars, they are formed after the star itself is formed.
interesting. i will most def try and get that series. i have so many docus to watch. i haven't even had a chance to watch carl sagan yet.
Basically when a large star goes supernova, it collapses under it's own weight leaving behind a black hole. All the hydrogen gas and particles that escape the black hole's event horizon after the explosion then form large gas clouds. The remnants of the explosion then start bonding to each other and swirling around in the gas cloud. As the temperatures increase, another star is born, and there is a second explosion. However the gravity of the new star keeps the particles from the second explosion orbiting around it as it rotates. The remnants of this second explosion then form the planets, in much the same way that the star was born after the original supernova. That's how we get solar systems. Therefore planets don't become stars, they are formed after the star itself is formed.
interesting. i will most def try and get that series. i have so many docus to watch. i haven't even had a chance to watch carl sagan yet.
Highflyer_GP
17-01-2008, 03:39 PM
Here we go http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/space/spaceguide/space_prog/ :)
Well worth the watch, it's easy for anybody to understand.
Another documentary worth watching is The Elegant Universe, although that deals more with the quantum aspects and string theory.
Well worth the watch, it's easy for anybody to understand.
Another documentary worth watching is The Elegant Universe, although that deals more with the quantum aspects and string theory.
mercurial
17-01-2008, 03:41 PM
thanks :)
DJ...
17-01-2008, 04:09 PM
Here we go http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/space/spaceguide/space_prog/ :)
Well worth the watch, it's easy for anybody to understand.
Another documentary worth watching is The Elegant Universe, although that deals more with the quantum aspects and string theory.
Elegant Universe is fantastic - very interesting...
Well worth the watch, it's easy for anybody to understand.
Another documentary worth watching is The Elegant Universe, although that deals more with the quantum aspects and string theory.
Elegant Universe is fantastic - very interesting...
Surv0
17-01-2008, 04:10 PM
BBC Space is brilliant, still have it, have watched it about 5 times...
It doesnt get boring
It doesnt get boring
nauseous_monkey
17-01-2008, 04:39 PM
Thanks for clearing things up, I was high when I wrote that ;)
'Space' with the dude from Jurrasic Park... I watched it years back... awesome stuff... got me interested into actually studying something instead of just being a bum (which was my ultimate goal in life) :D
I will get 'The Universe' asap.
One Q remains... Why the spiral arms? And why that particular direction?
'Space' with the dude from Jurrasic Park... I watched it years back... awesome stuff... got me interested into actually studying something instead of just being a bum (which was my ultimate goal in life) :D
I will get 'The Universe' asap.
One Q remains... Why the spiral arms? And why that particular direction?
fskmh
17-01-2008, 09:35 PM
Water wirlpools clockwise in the southern hemisphere and anticlockwise in the northern hemisphere.
On the equater water moves straight down the whole with no spinning.
There is actually a tourist attraction on the equator in one of the countries crossing it, where you can watch water move straight down ;p
although there are people saying its a myth, ive seen it first hand, it actually did spin in different directions in different hemispheres.
http://www.snopes.com/science/coriolis.asp
I have been watching a large amount of the series 'Cosmos' by Carl Sagan and was wondering. What it the large glowing center to our galaxy? And why is it that the galaxy is spiraled?
It's the dust being bombarded by light at frequencies above that of optical light. The dust heats up and scatters this light at lower frequencies from IR to optical red. This obscures everything in the visible part of the EM spectrum. The galaxy also has a halo of old stars that give it a spherical glow.
The structure of the galaxy is due to gravitational forces. In spiral galaxies you can discern galactic arms consisting of gas, dust, stars etc. and then interarm regions that are more sparsely populated. All of this is "circling the drain" that is the supermassive black hole at the centre of the galaxy.
Gravitational perturbations also occur as galaxies tend to congregate into local groups. One example is the interaction of our galaxy with the Small Magellanic Cloud, which is a nearby dwarf galaxy.
More details and pictures here:
http://casswww.ucsd.edu/public/tutorial/MW.html
http://www.sciam.com/space/article/id/what-process-creates-and
On the equater water moves straight down the whole with no spinning.
There is actually a tourist attraction on the equator in one of the countries crossing it, where you can watch water move straight down ;p
although there are people saying its a myth, ive seen it first hand, it actually did spin in different directions in different hemispheres.
http://www.snopes.com/science/coriolis.asp
I have been watching a large amount of the series 'Cosmos' by Carl Sagan and was wondering. What it the large glowing center to our galaxy? And why is it that the galaxy is spiraled?
It's the dust being bombarded by light at frequencies above that of optical light. The dust heats up and scatters this light at lower frequencies from IR to optical red. This obscures everything in the visible part of the EM spectrum. The galaxy also has a halo of old stars that give it a spherical glow.
The structure of the galaxy is due to gravitational forces. In spiral galaxies you can discern galactic arms consisting of gas, dust, stars etc. and then interarm regions that are more sparsely populated. All of this is "circling the drain" that is the supermassive black hole at the centre of the galaxy.
Gravitational perturbations also occur as galaxies tend to congregate into local groups. One example is the interaction of our galaxy with the Small Magellanic Cloud, which is a nearby dwarf galaxy.
More details and pictures here:
http://casswww.ucsd.edu/public/tutorial/MW.html
http://www.sciam.com/space/article/id/what-process-creates-and
nauseous_monkey
17-01-2008, 09:41 PM
All of this is "circling the drain" that is the supermassive black hole at the centre of the galaxy.
Are you suggesting that the spiral effect is due to the black hole. Comparable to water going down a drain, in this case the drain = the black hole ?
If true then can I assume that galaxies only exist because black holes exist, as it is most certainly the glue that keeps everything together?
Are you suggesting that the spiral effect is due to the black hole. Comparable to water going down a drain, in this case the drain = the black hole ?
If true then can I assume that galaxies only exist because black holes exist, as it is most certainly the glue that keeps everything together?
Nick333
17-01-2008, 09:49 PM
If true then can I assume that galaxies only exist because black holes exist, as it is most certainly the glue that keeps everything together?
No. Not all galaxies are spiral.
No. Not all galaxies are spiral.
fskmh
17-01-2008, 10:05 PM
Are you suggesting that the spiral effect is due to the black hole. Comparable to water going down a drain, in this case the drain = the black hole ?
If true then can I assume that galaxies only exist because black holes exist, as it is most certainly the glue that keeps everything together?
No, the inward rotation is due to the initial angular momentum from when the galaxy formed. The black hole isn't what causes the galaxy to exist, it's the other way around. Observations with the Hubble telescope have shown this: http://hubblesite.org/newscenter/archive/releases/2000/22
If true then can I assume that galaxies only exist because black holes exist, as it is most certainly the glue that keeps everything together?
No, the inward rotation is due to the initial angular momentum from when the galaxy formed. The black hole isn't what causes the galaxy to exist, it's the other way around. Observations with the Hubble telescope have shown this: http://hubblesite.org/newscenter/archive/releases/2000/22
mccrack
17-01-2008, 10:47 PM
Slightly O/T ... but d@m do i feel small now:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VY_Canis_Majoris
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VY_Canis_Majoris
Highflyer_GP
17-01-2008, 11:04 PM
Slightly O/T ... but d@m do i feel small now:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VY_Canis_Majoris
Roberta M. Humphreys (2006) estimates the radius of VY CMa at 1800 to 2100 solar radii. To illustrate, if our Sun was replaced with VY Canis Majoris, its surface would extend to the orbit of Saturn. Assuming the upper size limit of 2100 solar radii, light would take more than 8 hours to travel around the star's circumference.
Woah that is huge :eek:
I always thought that this comparison puts things into perspective: http://www.rense.com/general72/size.htm
And keep in mind that Antares is 700 times bigger than the Sun. VY Canis Majoris is 2100 times bigger.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VY_Canis_Majoris
Roberta M. Humphreys (2006) estimates the radius of VY CMa at 1800 to 2100 solar radii. To illustrate, if our Sun was replaced with VY Canis Majoris, its surface would extend to the orbit of Saturn. Assuming the upper size limit of 2100 solar radii, light would take more than 8 hours to travel around the star's circumference.
Woah that is huge :eek:
I always thought that this comparison puts things into perspective: http://www.rense.com/general72/size.htm
And keep in mind that Antares is 700 times bigger than the Sun. VY Canis Majoris is 2100 times bigger.
mercurial
17-01-2008, 11:27 PM
isn't it just amazing how incredibly gigantic our universe is?
nauseous_monkey
17-01-2008, 11:28 PM
That brings me to the next question... is our universe finite or infinite?
mercurial
17-01-2008, 11:31 PM
That brings me to the next question... is our universe finite or infinite?
if the universe was created from a point and kept expanding, then logically the way i see it, it has to be finite. you could think of the universe as a balloon.
if the universe was created from a point and kept expanding, then logically the way i see it, it has to be finite. you could think of the universe as a balloon.
DJ...
17-01-2008, 11:41 PM
We might be one of many universes for all we know - we cant prove or disprove that! Yet...
nauseous_monkey
17-01-2008, 11:46 PM
We might just all exist in our own heads :D
Claymore
19-01-2008, 10:25 AM
Water wirlpools clockwise in the southern hemisphere and anticlockwise in the northern hemisphere.
On the equater water moves straight down the whole with no spinning.
There is actually a tourist attraction on the equator in one of the countries crossing it, where you can watch water move straight down ;p
although there are people saying its a myth, ive seen it first hand, it actually did spin in different directions in different hemispheres.
Coriolis forces (basically, things close to the equator moving faster (due to earth's rotation) than things further away); but the effect over small areas is negligible, and you'll experience bigger effects from basin shape, drain shape, imperfections, water movement,etc.
On the equater water moves straight down the whole with no spinning.
There is actually a tourist attraction on the equator in one of the countries crossing it, where you can watch water move straight down ;p
although there are people saying its a myth, ive seen it first hand, it actually did spin in different directions in different hemispheres.
Coriolis forces (basically, things close to the equator moving faster (due to earth's rotation) than things further away); but the effect over small areas is negligible, and you'll experience bigger effects from basin shape, drain shape, imperfections, water movement,etc.