rvanwyk
25-01-2008, 11:03 AM
News24
http://www.fin24.co.za/articles/default/display_article.aspx?Nav=ns&ArticleID=1518-25_2258537
WTF?
http://www.fin24.co.za/articles/default/display_article.aspx?Nav=ns&ArticleID=1518-25_2258537
WTF?
View Full Version : Eskom tells mines to shut down
rvanwyk
25-01-2008, 11:20 AM
luckily mining isnt that important in south africa, right?
CathJ
25-01-2008, 11:22 AM
And the fin24 website has gone down under the load...
Geriatrix
25-01-2008, 11:35 AM
Holy. Crap.
The Cosmos
25-01-2008, 11:39 AM
News24
http://www.fin24.co.za/articles/default/display_article.aspx?Nav=ns&ArticleID=1518-25_2258537
WTF?
Ok. What next? :eek::eek::eek:
http://www.fin24.co.za/articles/default/display_article.aspx?Nav=ns&ArticleID=1518-25_2258537
WTF?
Ok. What next? :eek::eek::eek:
ToxicBunny
25-01-2008, 11:45 AM
MutherTrucker...
Eskom needs to get its arse handed to it... and the guavamint must pay for this. Thats more than 100000 ppl that are going to be paid for a day, plus the lost revenue to all the mining companies.
And we have a daft minister saying that load shedding won't harm the economy, fscking moron.
Eskom needs to get its arse handed to it... and the guavamint must pay for this. Thats more than 100000 ppl that are going to be paid for a day, plus the lost revenue to all the mining companies.
And we have a daft minister saying that load shedding won't harm the economy, fscking moron.
timgaul
25-01-2008, 11:47 AM
Wait till the voters loose their jobs due to loadshedding. Of course according to sources "Gauteng economy will not be affected by loadshedding". This implies that it is just as profitable to not run a mine as it is to actually be producing gold.
ToxicBunny
25-01-2008, 11:48 AM
timgaul : I doubt this loadshedding thing is going to change voting patterns too much, and voters are already losing their jobs etc to loadshedding.
The Cosmos
25-01-2008, 11:51 AM
Wait till the voters loose their jobs due to loadshedding.
I was thinking about this yesterday. Now that would be a catastrophy.
I was thinking about this yesterday. Now that would be a catastrophy.
Robin Hood
25-01-2008, 11:54 AM
Wait till the voters loose their jobs due to loadshedding. Of course according to sources "Gauteng economy will not be affected by loadshedding". This implies that it is just as profitable to not run a mine as it is to actually be producing gold.
UH??...doesn sound right :sick:
UH??...doesn sound right :sick:
sox63
25-01-2008, 11:57 AM
I can imagine Tokyo is already on the phone to a whole bunch of people.
dlk001
25-01-2008, 12:04 PM
I can imagine Tokyo is already on the phone to a whole bunch of people.
LOL, Goldfields is suppose to be M-Power-ed afterall!
LOL, Goldfields is suppose to be M-Power-ed afterall!
Geriatrix
25-01-2008, 12:27 PM
Wait till the voters loose their jobs due to loadshedding.
Yes! They'll be so angry they'll vote ANC without smiling!
Yes! They'll be so angry they'll vote ANC without smiling!
Ricard
25-01-2008, 12:29 PM
LOL, Goldfields is suppose to be M-Power-ed afterall!
:D:D 10 Points! Bwhaaaaaaaahaaaaaahaaaa..
:D:D 10 Points! Bwhaaaaaaaahaaaaaahaaaa..
Syndyre
25-01-2008, 12:35 PM
WTF, I can't believe this, what are these morons doing, this is really starting to seem like the beginning of the end. Fire the whole Eskom board now.
Disaster appears to be here, as across the country mines and factories have been forced to shut down because of a lack of electricity.
Public Enterprises Minister Alec Erwin has called the power crisis a "national emergency".
Today, the country's top gold producers, AngloGold Ashanti, Gold Fields, and Harmony, suspended production at all their mines. Platinum giants Anglo Platinum and Impala Platinum have also shut down all their South African operations in response to power shortages. Eskom has reportedly asked 138 industrial users to cut production, including mining houses and large factories. (http://www.moneyweb.co.za/mw/view/mw/en/page38?oid=188241&sn=Detail)
Scary stuff.
Disaster appears to be here, as across the country mines and factories have been forced to shut down because of a lack of electricity.
Public Enterprises Minister Alec Erwin has called the power crisis a "national emergency".
Today, the country's top gold producers, AngloGold Ashanti, Gold Fields, and Harmony, suspended production at all their mines. Platinum giants Anglo Platinum and Impala Platinum have also shut down all their South African operations in response to power shortages. Eskom has reportedly asked 138 industrial users to cut production, including mining houses and large factories. (http://www.moneyweb.co.za/mw/view/mw/en/page38?oid=188241&sn=Detail)
Scary stuff.
JBFRobisher
25-01-2008, 12:45 PM
Scary stuff.
This is VERY scary. Very bizarre and very scary.
:eek:
This is VERY scary. Very bizarre and very scary.
:eek:
Syndyre
25-01-2008, 12:47 PM
This is VERY scary. Very bizarre and very scary.
:eek:
Just shows we're ruled by incompetent morons. Watch the rand hit R8/dollar pretty soon, for starters.
:eek:
Just shows we're ruled by incompetent morons. Watch the rand hit R8/dollar pretty soon, for starters.
StrongTurd
25-01-2008, 12:47 PM
Scary stuff.
Even more scary is that we're putting up with this f**kstick Erwin. He should be brought to trial for consuming oxygen that other people could use to breathe.
Even more scary is that we're putting up with this f**kstick Erwin. He should be brought to trial for consuming oxygen that other people could use to breathe.
Syndyre
25-01-2008, 12:51 PM
Even more scary is that we're putting up with this f**kstick Erwin. He should be brought to trial for consuming oxygen that other people could use to breathe.
I sure as hell didn't put him there with my vote.
I sure as hell didn't put him there with my vote.
gregmcc
25-01-2008, 12:56 PM
What' sgoing to hit R8 first - the $ or the petrol price!!
Syndyre
25-01-2008, 12:59 PM
What' sgoing to hit R8 first - the $ or the petrol price!!
Well they're pretty much linked, SA consumption won't affect world oil markets by much.
Well they're pretty much linked, SA consumption won't affect world oil markets by much.
arni1954
25-01-2008, 01:37 PM
It is very important that "Our People " have electricity . I just wonder if they like the taste of grass since this is what they are going to eat in the future. :D
Obaht
25-01-2008, 03:07 PM
It's hard to type anything now. I just don't have the words to describe the pickle SA is now in.
No one really considered what would happen if the power was cut off and the mines could not produce. Gold really is a cornerstone of SA's economy.
We may yet see sky rocketing inflation and increased interest rates.
No one really considered what would happen if the power was cut off and the mines could not produce. Gold really is a cornerstone of SA's economy.
We may yet see sky rocketing inflation and increased interest rates.
TiredOfWaiting
25-01-2008, 03:14 PM
Even more scary is that we're putting up with this f**kstick Erwin. He should be brought to trial for consuming oxygen that other people could use to breathe.
Didn't he die from a stingray attack a while ago?? :confused:
Didn't he die from a stingray attack a while ago?? :confused:
StrongTurd
25-01-2008, 03:23 PM
Didn't he die from a stingray attack a while ago?? :confused:
Unless he was also the minister of public enterprise then we're not talking about the same guy. :D
Unless he was also the minister of public enterprise then we're not talking about the same guy. :D
Obaht
25-01-2008, 03:26 PM
I don't know if I'm the only one who noticed, but I think the ANC is living in La La Land. We often hear from mouthpieces like Erwin that SA is spending 10 billion on this, 43 billion on that, 25 billion on something else, and 100 billion on that other thing.
The fact that there is no more power capacity to build all these wonderous public works seems to escape these people. The fact is that SA is now decaying before our very eyes. Zimbabwe for example has had ALL DAY power losses. This is a crisis of immense proprtions and we are yet to see how it plays out over the next year. A growing economy NEEDS power and yet our government has failed in its task of delivering this.
We will never catch up.
Why? Because there are only about 4 million taxpayers in a country of 50-60 million people. How on earth are we going to pay for all these projects that the ANC continues to promote. Especially now that our mines are facing a crisis that they likely have NEVER faced in their entire existence.
Time is running out for SA. Rapidly!
I am leaving SA!
The fact that there is no more power capacity to build all these wonderous public works seems to escape these people. The fact is that SA is now decaying before our very eyes. Zimbabwe for example has had ALL DAY power losses. This is a crisis of immense proprtions and we are yet to see how it plays out over the next year. A growing economy NEEDS power and yet our government has failed in its task of delivering this.
We will never catch up.
Why? Because there are only about 4 million taxpayers in a country of 50-60 million people. How on earth are we going to pay for all these projects that the ANC continues to promote. Especially now that our mines are facing a crisis that they likely have NEVER faced in their entire existence.
Time is running out for SA. Rapidly!
I am leaving SA!
Skinner
25-01-2008, 03:32 PM
My Goldfields shares have plummeted as a result of this :mad::mad:
DJ...
25-01-2008, 03:33 PM
HEADS MUST ROLL. This has gone too far now and is absolutely absurd. It takes a lot for me to become negative about this country, but jeez - I feel like I just want to pack my bags and leave yesterday.
The sad thing is, the ANC can admit all they like that they were wrong, it wont have any affect on the next general election. That to me is not at all a democracy!
Q - Whats the difference between South Africa and Zimbabwe?
A - We continue to vote our shoddy leaders into power - Zimbabwe just have no choice
They are equally **** situations!
The sad thing is, the ANC can admit all they like that they were wrong, it wont have any affect on the next general election. That to me is not at all a democracy!
Q - Whats the difference between South Africa and Zimbabwe?
A - We continue to vote our shoddy leaders into power - Zimbabwe just have no choice
They are equally **** situations!
Obaht
25-01-2008, 03:36 PM
HEADS MUST ROLL. This has gone too far now and is absolutely absurd. It takes a lot for me to become negative about this country, but jeez - I feel like I just want to pack my bags and leave yesterday.
The sad thing is, the ANC can admit all they like that they were wrong, it wont have any affect on the next general election. That to me is not at all a democracy!
Heads must roll, but there is nobody competent to take over.
The sad thing is, the ANC can admit all they like that they were wrong, it wont have any affect on the next general election. That to me is not at all a democracy!
Heads must roll, but there is nobody competent to take over.
tco21
25-01-2008, 03:42 PM
This is truly disgusting, scary, and the tipping point that'll be sending me overseas next year when my degree is secured. Did you guys see the share prices of Goldfields, Anglogold and Harmony this morning? Enough to give you a panic attack. Will be tuning into CNBCA tonight to hopefully get an estimate of the money lost per day due to this, at least millions no doubt!
Moederloos
25-01-2008, 03:42 PM
Wait till the voters loose their jobs due to loadshedding. Of course according to sources "Gauteng economy will not be affected by loadshedding". This implies that it is just as profitable to not run a mine as it is to actually be producing gold.
If only we new this years ago - just think of all the money wasted playing underground. :rolleyes:
Yes! They'll be so angry they'll vote ANC without smiling!
:D
It's hard to type anything now. I just don't have the words to describe the pickle SA is now in.
No one really considered what would happen if the power was cut off and the mines could not produce. Gold really is a cornerstone of SA's economy.
We may yet see sky rocketing inflation and increased interest rates.
Gold is not a cornerstone anymore, tourism AND gold is. Luckily this will have no affect on tourism......:rolleyes:
My Goldfields shares have plummeted as a result of this :mad::mad:
Watch the JSE skydive on Monday.
If only we new this years ago - just think of all the money wasted playing underground. :rolleyes:
Yes! They'll be so angry they'll vote ANC without smiling!
:D
It's hard to type anything now. I just don't have the words to describe the pickle SA is now in.
No one really considered what would happen if the power was cut off and the mines could not produce. Gold really is a cornerstone of SA's economy.
We may yet see sky rocketing inflation and increased interest rates.
Gold is not a cornerstone anymore, tourism AND gold is. Luckily this will have no affect on tourism......:rolleyes:
My Goldfields shares have plummeted as a result of this :mad::mad:
Watch the JSE skydive on Monday.
Syndyre
25-01-2008, 03:43 PM
Heads must roll, but there is nobody competent to take over.
Get a few MyADSL forumites in there, there's definitely more intelligence here than in the Eskom board room. :D:p
Get a few MyADSL forumites in there, there's definitely more intelligence here than in the Eskom board room. :D:p
nocilah
25-01-2008, 03:45 PM
This is VERY scary. Very bizarre and very scary.
:eek:
shows just how BIG of a crisis this energy crisis is. to shutdown mines you know we are in deep deep poo.
:eek:
shows just how BIG of a crisis this energy crisis is. to shutdown mines you know we are in deep deep poo.
lsuacner
25-01-2008, 06:32 PM
Today cost the country 3 billion 416 million rand in GDP. That is the exact figure rounded to thousands.
Moederloos
25-01-2008, 06:44 PM
Today cost the country 3 billion 416 million rand in GDP. That is the exact figure rounded to thousands.
Got a linky? Not that I dispute it, but would like to read more.
Got a linky? Not that I dispute it, but would like to read more.
DJ...
25-01-2008, 07:44 PM
Today cost the country 3 billion 416 million rand in GDP. That is the exact figure rounded to thousands.
Maybe in GDP terms, however the knock on affect and damage that this has caused in the overall picture is imeasurable. Our government has now gone too far - this situation is ridiculous!
Maybe in GDP terms, however the knock on affect and damage that this has caused in the overall picture is imeasurable. Our government has now gone too far - this situation is ridiculous!
lsuacner
25-01-2008, 07:57 PM
I work at a mine, financial department, we worked it out. The figure was sent around the mines. No linky, just a scary spreadsheet.
Robin Hood
25-01-2008, 08:07 PM
Just for a matter of interest...Platberg mine, nearby Elandslaagte/Colenso was closed around 1983...It is estimated to still have a coal-life of 35 years!!! Why not re-open and use the coal for power use?
Sneeky
25-01-2008, 08:22 PM
Yes! They'll be so angry they'll vote ANC without smiling!
QFT
QFT
Syndyre
25-01-2008, 08:23 PM
I work at a mine, financial department, we worked it out. The figure was sent around the mines. No linky, just a scary spreadsheet.
Don't suppose you can post the spreadsheet or is it confidential?
Don't suppose you can post the spreadsheet or is it confidential?
lsuacner
25-01-2008, 08:27 PM
Not going to post it. ;-)
Syndyre
25-01-2008, 08:35 PM
Not going to post it. ;-)
Lol ok was worth a try. :) Scary figure.
Lol ok was worth a try. :) Scary figure.
Rozier
25-01-2008, 08:48 PM
shows just how BIG of a crisis this energy crisis is. to shutdown mines you know we are in deep deep poo.
I really am sorry to have to face this but this country is in now a terminal nose-dive. Even if the Government handed the whole thing back tomorrow to the people who could actually govern. I doubt whether this deterioration could be reversed. I am afraid the milk has already been spilt.
:(
I really am sorry to have to face this but this country is in now a terminal nose-dive. Even if the Government handed the whole thing back tomorrow to the people who could actually govern. I doubt whether this deterioration could be reversed. I am afraid the milk has already been spilt.
:(
Moederloos
25-01-2008, 08:48 PM
I work at a mine, financial department, we worked it out. The figure was sent around the mines. No linky, just a scary spreadsheet.
:(
:(
tco21
25-01-2008, 10:15 PM
Isuacner, how did you guys get to that figure? Or rather, how sure are you of its accuracy - despite the fact that it is an estimate? From reports I've heard, losses are around R200m - summitTV (which seems far too low IMO), and iirc Goldfields lost R60m (Profit or turnover? not sure). Anglogold seemed to be hardest hit so I imagine their losses are far worse than that of GF's...
Robin Hood
25-01-2008, 10:24 PM
I am afraid the milk has already been spilt.
:(
Yeah...All thats left is the "sour-milk".
:(
Yeah...All thats left is the "sour-milk".
pimal3
25-01-2008, 10:40 PM
Most industries have hourly-paid workers (I'm not too sure about the mines though) and when industries are closed down temporarily for a day or more, these hourly-paid workers are not paid for that unproductive period (No work, no pay principle). This is covered in the substantial agreement between the labour unions and management. So there are going to be a lot of short-pay for these poor workers. This is normally used to cover industrial action, but it is equally valid to be used for any closure whether the closure is caused by the workers or extraneous factors.
dlk001
26-01-2008, 12:34 AM
Just for a matter of interest...Platberg mine, nearby Elandslaagte/Colenso was closed around 1983...It is estimated to still have a coal-life of 35 years!!! Why not re-open and use the coal for power use?
My guess is that Platberg is part of the Utrecht and Klip River Coalfield that comprises mostly anthracite coal. Unlike Bituminous coal, Anthracite ain't good for burning. Anthracite ignites with difficulty and burns with a short, blue, and smokeless flame. Power stations like thermal coal.
The mine could have an abundance of coal but mining it economically is another issue. If the mine could be economical, someone would have grabbed it long time ago.
My guess is that Platberg is part of the Utrecht and Klip River Coalfield that comprises mostly anthracite coal. Unlike Bituminous coal, Anthracite ain't good for burning. Anthracite ignites with difficulty and burns with a short, blue, and smokeless flame. Power stations like thermal coal.
The mine could have an abundance of coal but mining it economically is another issue. If the mine could be economical, someone would have grabbed it long time ago.
lsuacner
26-01-2008, 09:34 PM
Isuacner, how did you guys get to that figure? Or rather, how sure are you of its accuracy - despite the fact that it is an estimate? From reports I've heard, losses are around R200m - summitTV (which seems far too low IMO), and iirc Goldfields lost R60m (Profit or turnover? not sure). Anglogold seemed to be hardest hit so I imagine their losses are far worse than that of GF's...
You can make a loss or a profit, mines lose millions of rands a day if they do not have production, but can make tens of millions in turn if they do have production. Losing x million a day instead of making 3 billion 416 million in profit is where we stand now. Some gold mines (like the one where I work) is already in dire straights as it is, hope to know Monday if I should be moving to New Zealand already.
You can make a loss or a profit, mines lose millions of rands a day if they do not have production, but can make tens of millions in turn if they do have production. Losing x million a day instead of making 3 billion 416 million in profit is where we stand now. Some gold mines (like the one where I work) is already in dire straights as it is, hope to know Monday if I should be moving to New Zealand already.
Moederloos
26-01-2008, 09:43 PM
Most industries have hourly-paid workers (I'm not too sure about the mines though) and when industries are closed down temporarily for a day or more, these hourly-paid workers are not paid for that unproductive period (No work, no pay principle). This is covered in the substantial agreement between the labour unions and management. So there are going to be a lot of short-pay for these poor workers. This is normally used to cover industrial action, but it is equally valid to be used for any closure whether the closure is caused by the workers or extraneous factors.
Under correction, I believe the mnines have no work no pay clauses with the unions.
I remember reading that on this forum last night.
Corrections welcomed.
Under correction, I believe the mnines have no work no pay clauses with the unions.
I remember reading that on this forum last night.
Corrections welcomed.
Moederloos
26-01-2008, 09:49 PM
Let us work out the loss.
According to
http://www.dme.gov.za/pdfs/minerals/Mining%20Week/opportunities_Mining.pdf
mines account for 16% of GDP.
SA GDP is:
GDP (official exchange rate): $216.5 billion (2007 est.)
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/sf.html
On a daily rate, SA GDP is $0.6billion
16% of that is: $0.09billion per day.
at R7.20 to the $, that is: 0.68billion per day.
My math is flaky at the best of times, and worse at this hour, but I get then
R680 million per day loss.
That "seems right", since the one platinum mine claimed R60 million a day for themselves alone - and they were the biggest.
Corrections, as always, appreciated.
Edit:
http://www.southafrica.info/ess_info/sa_glance/facts.htm
gives: US$540.8-billion by purchasing power parity.
I have no idea what that means ( :D ) but, let me work the figures, and corrections welcomed.
((541/365)*0.16)*7.2 gives R1.7billion a day
OUCH.
According to
http://www.dme.gov.za/pdfs/minerals/Mining%20Week/opportunities_Mining.pdf
mines account for 16% of GDP.
SA GDP is:
GDP (official exchange rate): $216.5 billion (2007 est.)
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/sf.html
On a daily rate, SA GDP is $0.6billion
16% of that is: $0.09billion per day.
at R7.20 to the $, that is: 0.68billion per day.
My math is flaky at the best of times, and worse at this hour, but I get then
R680 million per day loss.
That "seems right", since the one platinum mine claimed R60 million a day for themselves alone - and they were the biggest.
Corrections, as always, appreciated.
Edit:
http://www.southafrica.info/ess_info/sa_glance/facts.htm
gives: US$540.8-billion by purchasing power parity.
I have no idea what that means ( :D ) but, let me work the figures, and corrections welcomed.
((541/365)*0.16)*7.2 gives R1.7billion a day
OUCH.
Moederloos
27-01-2008, 04:55 PM
mines regain some power:
http://www.fin24.co.za/articles/default/display_article.aspx?Nav=ns&ArticleID=1518-25_2259423
sigh -
"If some of the mines get flooded, you can't save them," said Jacobsz at Gold Fields, which has said it is losing 7 000 ounces in output a day.
Part of me - an ashamedly large part - hopes this happens.
We need unprecedented levels of disaster in order for something to be done - its obvious seeing how no one yet has been fired.
http://www.fin24.co.za/articles/default/display_article.aspx?Nav=ns&ArticleID=1518-25_2259423
sigh -
"If some of the mines get flooded, you can't save them," said Jacobsz at Gold Fields, which has said it is losing 7 000 ounces in output a day.
Part of me - an ashamedly large part - hopes this happens.
We need unprecedented levels of disaster in order for something to be done - its obvious seeing how no one yet has been fired.
Moederloos
28-01-2008, 07:01 AM
Mines are still closed - weekend talks failed.
http://www.thetimes.co.za/News/Article.aspx?id=692923
http://www.thetimes.co.za/News/Article.aspx?id=692923
Moederloos
28-01-2008, 05:55 PM
Miner dies in mine
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=nw20080128164053766C893760
Who is to blame?
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=nw20080128164053766C893760
Who is to blame?
dlk001
29-01-2008, 10:06 AM
Miner dies in mine
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=nw20080128164053766C893760
Who is to blame?
Based on the current information about the incident, Angloplat is to blame.
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=nw20080128164053766C893760
Who is to blame?
Based on the current information about the incident, Angloplat is to blame.
Ozymandias
29-01-2008, 10:22 AM
http://www.southafrica.info/ess_info/sa_glance/facts.htm
gives: US$540.8-billion by purchasing power parity.
I have no idea what that means ( :D ) but, let me work the figures, and corrections welcomed.
((541/365)*0.16)*7.2 gives R1.7billion a day
OUCH.
A purchasing power parity exchange rate equalizes the purchasing power of different currencies in their home countries for a given basket of goods. It is often used to compare the standards of living between countries, rather than a per-capita gross domestic products comparison at market exchange rates.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity
The Economist magazine uses something called "The Big Mac index" which compares the selling price of a McDonald’s Big Mac burgers in various countries, to calculate the PPP.
http://www.economist.com/markets/indicators/displaystory.cfm?story_id=8649005
gives: US$540.8-billion by purchasing power parity.
I have no idea what that means ( :D ) but, let me work the figures, and corrections welcomed.
((541/365)*0.16)*7.2 gives R1.7billion a day
OUCH.
A purchasing power parity exchange rate equalizes the purchasing power of different currencies in their home countries for a given basket of goods. It is often used to compare the standards of living between countries, rather than a per-capita gross domestic products comparison at market exchange rates.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity
The Economist magazine uses something called "The Big Mac index" which compares the selling price of a McDonald’s Big Mac burgers in various countries, to calculate the PPP.
http://www.economist.com/markets/indicators/displaystory.cfm?story_id=8649005