Two time-zone plan for SA?

[UnoPanelvan]

http://www.24.com/news/?p=tsa&i=856742

Now I've heard it all. WTF is the matter with these overnight wet dreamers, what a plan to save energy? all it would do is time shift the load and then creates so much confusion that it will cost the country more on the end of the day.

[Piepalook]

http://www.24.com/news/?p=tsa&i=856742

Now I've heard it all. WTF is the matter with these overnight wet dreamers, what a plan to save energy? all it would do is time shift the load and then creates so much confusion that it will cost the country more on the end of the day.

So the airlines could fly a lot longer each day?

LOL!:D

Watch the rand drop against the dollar after these words of wisdom.

[Pitbull]

Well tbh Capetown is about 1 hour behind ;)

I don't see the problem :confused:

[bwana]

I dont care much about two time zones but I wouldnt mind daylight savings time.

[boramk]

Problem: TV Program schedualing

[Pitbull]

I dont care much about two time zones but I wouldnt mind daylight savings time.

no damn it.

I have a hard time with it in the UK as it is. Just put the Western Cape on time 1 hour behind ours. The Sun rises there about 1 hour later and goes down one hour later. So what is the problem ?

[bwana]

no damn it.

I have a hard time with it in the UK as it is. Just put the Western Cape on time 1 hour behind ours. The Sun rises there about 1 hour later and goes down one hour later. So what is the problem ?How can you have a hard time with DST? :confused: Spring ahead - Fall back.

[!!DV!!]

This is why this happens !!!

http://www.cast.co.za/latestjokes.php?s=pic&cat=&oc=7887&startrow=

[DJ...]

The one issue with having DST in a single country is doing business on a naional basis. It will impact sales and will stretch the working times of many in Johannesburg - particularly those in customer service and sales.

[bwana]

The one issue with having DST in a single country is doing business on a naional basis. It will impact sales and will stretch the working times of many in Johannesburg - particularly those in customer service and sales.Do you mean DST (daylight savings time) or Dual time zones? I think the minister seems to be using the two interchangeably

[HavocXphere]

I think one hour is not enough to make a difference. If we could shift half of SA by say 4 hours, then the usual peak time would be less of a problem. With one hour, the two half of SA's peak times still overlap significantly.

As for the plane argument.:( I figure the only way they are going to fly longer is because they are not cleared to land for another hour due to DST.

[theratman]

wont do much good or bad imo.

articles also a little too short for me to take seriously

[DJ...]

Do you mean DST (daylight savings time) or Dual time zones? I think the minister seems to be using the two interchangeably

Dual Time Zones would cause this issue

[Messugga]

The US has 6 different time zones and they seem to manage fine. Ideally, we'd shift times around 6 hours but a one hour shift would still aid in the alleviation of the power issue. I really don't see how this could be so terrible. Anyone care to give some actual reasons with an ounce of thought behind them why it wouldn't work?

[diesel]

If putting the south an hour behind solves our power crisis then why the hell not, all it means is one day a year you have to wake up an our earlier and the other day you wake up an hour later..life goes on.

[Messugga]

Umm...That's daylight savings time. This is separate time zones, ie. when it's 9:00AM in JHB, it's 8:00 in CT still. The result would be that peak load gets spread around, thus alleviating our problems a bit. Think of it like this: 4:00PM, everyone leaves work. By around 6-ish, most people are home and starting to cook dinner, watch tv, maybe take a shower, so the geezer's working, etc. Load on the power grid's high, as a result.
Now, shift CT to an hour later, so that for half the country, 6:00PM still arrives like normal, but relative to them, the other half only starts using the serious juice at 7:00PM. If you look at the power warnings on tv, you'll see that electricity usage starts to improve around the 7:00PM mark. By this reasoning, we'll use less, in total, at 6:00PM, JHB time, because half the country's still at work or on the way home, since it's 5:00PM for them and by the time it's 6:00PM for them, it's 7:00PM for the JHB-half, whom, by then, will be done preparing food and things. You're creating two smaller peaks instead of having one big one - two smaller peaks which the grid can handle better.

[Garyvdh]

recent study in the USA says DST does not save any energy... in fact wastes more...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,334831,00.html

and here's one funny article on it... if this is how some Americans think about DST... what do they think our locals are going to make of it???

http://www.snopes.com/humor/letters/daylight.asp

this was a letter that a lady wrote in to her local newspaper! :D

[DJ...]

The US has 6 different time zones and they seem to manage fine. Ideally, we'd shift times around 6 hours but a one hour shift would still aid in the alleviation of the power issue. I really don't see how this could be so terrible. Anyone care to give some actual reasons with an ounce of thought behind them why it wouldn't work?

Its the implementation where it becomes an issue. Those US companies began operating in an "time-shift" environment and will more than likely have offices in each of their major client areas.

We dont always find the same in SA. SME's dont necessarily have offices all over the country and it will stretch resources by introducing time-shifting. Sure, it can only stretch employees by at the most 1 hour, but it will still have an impact.

Quantifying that impact I cannot do but it seems a somewhat selfish reason on Eskom's behalf to expect the entire country to introduce dual time zones which will have some serious financial and operational implications, because they cannot do their job correctly.

[Messugga]

Well, Eskom's a company, not a dictatorship. All they can do is recommend! A lot of businesses don't NEED to be available from elsewhere in the country until the end of the day. Cinema's, banks, gyms, schools, some governmental offices, shopping centers(a big user of the juice), etc. Localized places of work would have no trouble with the switch. I'd actually like some examples of places that would really suffer! If it's really that important to buy something, just phone an hour earlier and get your stuff sorted. I don't really see how having to wait an hour to perform a transaction would mean the end of the world, if you're around 1000km away anyway.

[DJ...]

Well, Eskom's a company, not a dictatorship. All they can do is recommend! A lot of businesses don't NEED to be available from elsewhere in the country until the end of the day. Cinema's, banks, gyms, schools, some governmental offices, shopping centers(a big user of the juice), etc. Localized places of work would have no trouble with the switch. I'd actually like some examples of places that would really suffer! If it's really that important to buy something, just phone an hour earlier and get your stuff sorted. I don't really see how having to wait an hour to perform a transaction would mean the end of the world, if you're around 1000km away anyway.

Well the whole dual time zone thing doesnt seem to hold much ground relating to power consumption and reduction so I would suggest that their drastic suggestions be thought out next time instead of thumb-sucked.

I dont know all businesses in SA so I cannot suggest exactly which of them will be severely affected and which more than others as I am not privy to all businesses operational activities. However to suggest that nobody will be severely affected is naive and your example of calling an hour later or earlier is just not a solution. Its a governmental type solution - make the consumer/citizen pay! We have been put out enough already with the power cuts. And your localized business examples completly ignores B2B companies who generally have to operate on a national basis. Service based companies and software companies.

Now Eskom expect power cuts to be reduced by introducing dual time zones? Ah, I am just against the principle of such a drastic change for a simple cock-up they made unfortunately.

As for the issues that it might create, the 1st that springs to mind is an IT issue for those working on centralised databases and servers. I cant really comment much more from an IT perspective as I am not qualified to do so. Maybe someone else can highlight what/if any issues might arise from an IT pespective?

Maybe I am making a mountain out of a mole-hill here, but travel, business and communication would be affected - ot sure but would ERP systems be affected by dual time zones? Although that would be a service provider issue. As a director, I often hold meetings with a few representatives I have in Durbz and Cape Town. Half the time this is done IN Durbz and CPT and would mean I might lose an hour of each day when I left from CPT back to JHB? I dont like being put out like that.

[Messugga]

My sister's head office is located in the US. That's a 7 hour time difference and she manages to cope relatively well with it, except for the odd conference call at some late hour. Again I say that the US manages it perfectly well, and they have every kind of business we have. They're talking of cutting power from 6:00PM until 10:00PM. Would you rather have the inconvenience of not being able to reach someone in say JHB for an hour, at the end of the day at the office, or would you rather have four hours without power?
I'm not saying this is great and wonderful... I'd rather have it not be necessary but it would be making the best of a bad situation. The challenge is to minimize the impact of this mess and not just complain about how it affects us and refusing to do something to change it. I understand the sentiment that we've given up more than our fair share in order to live in this country and I agree whole-heartedly with it but being stubborn and refusing to change won't help anything. Say someone burnt down your company's offices and they weren't insured or something, which lead to the eventual closing of said company. Would you not go out looking for another job, even if you have to work funny hours? Same sort of situation at the moment in the country. Sacrifice in order to survive.

[DJ...]

Look, your arguement is perfectly valid. Mine is based mostly on the principle of the situation. But I agree, if this really can eradicate power cuts, then there really wouldnt be that much of an issue. It is certainly not making the best of a bad situation. If you look at the stats, Eskom's current capacity is sufficient to provide power to the whole of SA. It has been operationally where they have let down consumers.

TBO, I dont have that much of an issue with dual time zones so long as it wont negatively impact corporates too much. If it requires a corporate to add or change ERP, Bi or any software systems then it can have a significant impact. Not sure if this would require that much of a change, but lets see.

[HavocXphere]

What puzzles me is how they plan to actually *save* 200MW with this. I can understand the moving peak time thing, but saving?

[Messugga]

The moving of peak times IS the saving. They don't have giant batteries that save up electricity generated during off peak times, they have a set capacity. If demand goes up, they can increase production to try and meet it, but if demand is higher than possible production, you get powercuts. What these guys are trying to do is drop those peak values.
DJStealth, I totally see your point and I agree with you. Incompetence is to blame for this, we all know it but it doesn't seem like that's going to change any time soon, unfortunately.

[UnoPanelvan]

Well tbh Capetown is about 1 hour behind ;)

I don't see the problem :confused:

Capetonians is/was always behind :D . It not the timezone issue as much as the so called reasoning behind it, pinned as solutions to self inflicted strife. Can just take it where it comes from.

The only way IMHO that this will effectively save power is the East Rand is time shifted with the West Rand with +- 2 hours. The Idea of time shifting only Cape Town is IMHO as stupid as the person offering such a solution for the wrong reasons in the first place.

[milomak]

we still get bloody londoners think that that 3pm is 4pm SA time when their clocks shift :mad:

just needed to vent that.

[fskmh]

Molefe said that this plan would not just be good for getting back about 200 megawatts of electricity,but that it would also be good for sectors like the airline industry, which she said could "fly a lot longer each day".


The value of implementing daylight savings is debatable.

My problem is that DPE wants to do this based on the possibility of gaining a measly 200MW. This is not enough of a return to warrant a step of this nature. I hope things are not really this desperate because Winter is coming and that 5000MW shortfall due to "unplanned maintenance" was supposedly being addressed in the 1st phase of Duhwin's plan (to have Industry save 10% energy). Focus Alec, focus :(.

[DJ...]

I hope things are not really this desperate because Winter is coming and that 5000MW shortfall due to "unplanned maintenance" was supposedly being addressed in the 1st phase of Duhwin's plan (to have Industry save 10% energy). Focus Alec, focus :(.

That might be asking a bit much of the man who spent the majority of the power crisis in the Bahamas! He doesnt even understand what kinda power crisis we are talking about here! Focus is a completely new term to him and I believe he might even consult with his optometrist before he does anyting remotely worthwhile!

[The Cosmos]

http://www.24.com/news/?p=tsa&i=856742

Now I've heard it all. WTF is the matter with these overnight wet dreamers, what a plan to save energy? all it would do is time shift the load and then creates so much confusion that it will cost the country more on the end of the day.

Since SAST was established, we have had no problems with (time) zones. These idiots are really taking stupidity to a new level.

[The Cosmos]

What puzzles me is how they plan to actually *save* 200MW with this. I can understand the moving peak time thing, but saving?

The country will be dumped in chaos once this takes affect.

[bwana]

The country will be dumped in chaos once this takes affect.Really? You don't think you can cope with two time zones?

[The Cosmos]

Really? You don't think you can cope with two time zones?

I'm talking business wise.

[TopNode]

Cape Town already got Dual Time Zones - Beach Time and Work Time. :D In any case I wouldn't mind getting up an hour later in the winter.

[Nod]

Molefe said ... that it would also be good for sectors like the airline industry, which she said could "fly a lot longer each day".
Planes only fly during the day?