Peapod
17-09-2003, 11:29 PM
Proposition: Set ourselves up as the official Telkom Consumer Watchdog.
Follows on from http://www.myadsl.co.za/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=598
Follows on from http://www.myadsl.co.za/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=598
View Full Version : TELKOM CONSUMER WATCHDOG
SK33T
18-09-2003, 07:40 AM
Nah then youd have to deal with all of Telkoms crap,lets just stick with ADSL,
thats a mission on its own.
thats a mission on its own.
Quazzi
18-09-2003, 08:53 AM
Peapod, its a great idea. What we need to do though is find out how we get registered as the official body, what evaluation standards we need to adhere to, who can endorse us (after all, its better to have a big name behind us rather than a fly-by-night) and what we can offer.
One thing please, if we get compared to Elizabeth Jones, I think I'll shoot myself
One thing please, if we get compared to Elizabeth Jones, I think I'll shoot myself
Peapod
18-09-2003, 09:02 AM
Huh?
Thats kinda the point. We have a working forum here that needs to actually DO something. I mean, clever banter is one thing, but if all we are doing is leaving the actual work to RPM, then we are as bad as the system we are trying to beat aren't we?
By setting ourselves up as a consumer driven watchdog, and okay, i'll concede, for lets say ADSL and Fast Internet at this stage, then collectively we have the muscle to make real changes. But we HAVE to get organised. Get organised, get recognised, get press radio and air time, get more memebrs, ergo more support, ergo, more muscle....and with that, who knows what we can achieve.
Personally, i thought the whole point was to cut out the crap that telkom dole out - RPM and a small handful of others cannot do that alone.
I'm in - anyone else?
Thats kinda the point. We have a working forum here that needs to actually DO something. I mean, clever banter is one thing, but if all we are doing is leaving the actual work to RPM, then we are as bad as the system we are trying to beat aren't we?
By setting ourselves up as a consumer driven watchdog, and okay, i'll concede, for lets say ADSL and Fast Internet at this stage, then collectively we have the muscle to make real changes. But we HAVE to get organised. Get organised, get recognised, get press radio and air time, get more memebrs, ergo more support, ergo, more muscle....and with that, who knows what we can achieve.
Personally, i thought the whole point was to cut out the crap that telkom dole out - RPM and a small handful of others cannot do that alone.
I'm in - anyone else?
Peapod
18-09-2003, 09:04 AM
Hey Quazzi - we must have been madly typing together so my last post was in response to SK33T post. Phew!
Okay, so who is Elizabeth Jones? I'm serious, who is she?
P
Okay, so who is Elizabeth Jones? I'm serious, who is she?
P
Chubs
18-09-2003, 09:25 AM
Is'nt she that watch dog lady from tv that loved exposing bad businesses?
rpm
18-09-2003, 09:51 AM
Hi guys
I think it is a good idea to try to become a legitimate body, but only as far as ADSL is concerned. At this stage I think we are seen as the unofficial representative of ADSL users, and can build on that. As for Elizabeth Jones…I think you guys are referring to Isabel Jones. I think she still has a consumer show on 702….
Regards,
RPM
rpm@myadsl.co.za
I think it is a good idea to try to become a legitimate body, but only as far as ADSL is concerned. At this stage I think we are seen as the unofficial representative of ADSL users, and can build on that. As for Elizabeth Jones…I think you guys are referring to Isabel Jones. I think she still has a consumer show on 702….
Regards,
RPM
rpm@myadsl.co.za
Peapod
18-09-2003, 10:10 AM
Yeesh - now I remember. BTW in the UK the TV watchdog show was fronted by Anne Robinson (she of the bitchy disposition) who now does UK Weakest Link. If that's career progression for consumer watchdogs, I better get on a diet and practice withering looks!!!
RPM, valid point about ADSL only at this stage. Come on people - how do we get official?
RPM, valid point about ADSL only at this stage. Come on people - how do we get official?
ASF
18-09-2003, 10:30 AM
I would like to see us also make an effort around raising awareness regarding deregulation, which we all know is the root cause of the problem.
As the electorate we have a legitimate right to freedom of speech. I also believe that we have a right to market related products and services in the telco space. The Telkom monopoly is actually detremental to the economy of this country. Business relies on communication so Telkom affects each and every one of us in some shape or form.
I have noticed how over the last few years how people are more and more aware of the Internet and it's capabilities etc. The Internet is no longer the domain of a few techie types like it was a few years ago when we started building Inet infrastrcuture in this country.
The level of posts on this board are proof of the above. Everyday we grow our member base. Surley we could forumlate some sort of action plan to exercise our right to access of information and freedom of speech in order to, if nothing else, add an irritation factor to those who have screwed up the deregulation process in this country.
I believe that the 1st place to start would be to put pressure on ICASA to appoint a few members to their board who are not broadcasters but people who actually have a handle on telecommunications. As the regulator they are required to have the skills to adjudicate on telco issues. Clearly at this stage they do not have these skills - otherwise they wouldn't have contracted Next to evaluate the SNO bids. And also we as the public should be able to provide meaningfull input into any process that affects an issue as vital as telco deregulation. It shouldn't and CANNOT be left to a few eletist individuals who clearly do not know what they are doing.
Secondly, and this is the hard one, pressure should be brought to bear on govt to:
1. Replace the Minister of Communications with someone who is qualified to hold such an important post
2. Accelerate the deregulation process for the good of the country...
My 2c worth...
As the electorate we have a legitimate right to freedom of speech. I also believe that we have a right to market related products and services in the telco space. The Telkom monopoly is actually detremental to the economy of this country. Business relies on communication so Telkom affects each and every one of us in some shape or form.
I have noticed how over the last few years how people are more and more aware of the Internet and it's capabilities etc. The Internet is no longer the domain of a few techie types like it was a few years ago when we started building Inet infrastrcuture in this country.
The level of posts on this board are proof of the above. Everyday we grow our member base. Surley we could forumlate some sort of action plan to exercise our right to access of information and freedom of speech in order to, if nothing else, add an irritation factor to those who have screwed up the deregulation process in this country.
I believe that the 1st place to start would be to put pressure on ICASA to appoint a few members to their board who are not broadcasters but people who actually have a handle on telecommunications. As the regulator they are required to have the skills to adjudicate on telco issues. Clearly at this stage they do not have these skills - otherwise they wouldn't have contracted Next to evaluate the SNO bids. And also we as the public should be able to provide meaningfull input into any process that affects an issue as vital as telco deregulation. It shouldn't and CANNOT be left to a few eletist individuals who clearly do not know what they are doing.
Secondly, and this is the hard one, pressure should be brought to bear on govt to:
1. Replace the Minister of Communications with someone who is qualified to hold such an important post
2. Accelerate the deregulation process for the good of the country...
My 2c worth...
SK33T
18-09-2003, 05:08 PM
Peapod
I meant no harm in the idea,RPM said what I meant in a different way.
Can you imagine being watchdog and have everyone coming here cause theres a fault with there normal telephone or there ACC was billed incorrectly.
Thats why I said just ADSL is a mission on its own lets stick with that,but how do you form a watchdog for ADSL?Who we gona be
THE ADSL WATCHDOG (TAW)
I meant no harm in the idea,RPM said what I meant in a different way.
Can you imagine being watchdog and have everyone coming here cause theres a fault with there normal telephone or there ACC was billed incorrectly.
Thats why I said just ADSL is a mission on its own lets stick with that,but how do you form a watchdog for ADSL?Who we gona be
THE ADSL WATCHDOG (TAW)
Peapod
18-09-2003, 11:00 PM
SK33T, no offense taken although i did think you just slated the whole idea in one hit - lack of sleep on my behalf probably - oh the joys of having to work into the night to keep telcomms costs down. We are STILL waiting for ADSL in our neck of the woods.
Quazzi
18-09-2003, 11:35 PM
Sorry guys, my mistake - I meant Isabel Jones - sorry, I'm sitting on roughly 20 mins of sleep and I was talking to an Elizabeth in the morning - Slip of the mind. I agree fully with rpm. GO ASF!! Although lets take things one step at a time. I'm in
bullstein
21-09-2003, 02:44 PM
Certainly this can be a very good way of getting more support for our program and can also help a lot of people with telecom problems.
The main thing would be where to start and how to go about it...
The main thing would be where to start and how to go about it...
Peapod
21-09-2003, 04:39 PM
http://www.dslforum.org
Check out this site in the US - it must have started much the way MyADSL has....
We could do this couldn't we? I mean we have enough talent between us. [8D]
Check out this site in the US - it must have started much the way MyADSL has....
We could do this couldn't we? I mean we have enough talent between us. [8D]
ASnogarD
22-09-2003, 11:44 AM
I think at the moment we seem to have a image as a 'moan and groan' site, we need to get rid of that before we are taken seriously. Our goal should be to tranform MyADSLs <i>apparent</i> 'moan and groan' image into the portal of information and assistance for ADSL in SA.
For this to happen :
+ A section in HTML dedicated to assisting users contamplating ADSL as a internet connection option - outlining in a non biased way the pro's and con's of the current implementation.
+ A section in HTML dedicated to assisting new users with there new ADSL connection - tip, tricks and security issuses.
+ A section in HTML dedicated to SA ADSL friendly links divided by type and wether a capped user can access (read local)
Basically the forum section should be just a discussion section , not the MAIN section.
My 2cents :)
For this to happen :
+ A section in HTML dedicated to assisting users contamplating ADSL as a internet connection option - outlining in a non biased way the pro's and con's of the current implementation.
+ A section in HTML dedicated to assisting new users with there new ADSL connection - tip, tricks and security issuses.
+ A section in HTML dedicated to SA ADSL friendly links divided by type and wether a capped user can access (read local)
Basically the forum section should be just a discussion section , not the MAIN section.
My 2cents :)
VQuest
22-09-2003, 12:06 PM
A very good idea ASnogarD. This site is still very new and the possibilities are endless.
I personally wish we didn't have to moan and groan about ADSL, but until something gets done, we all need somewhere to vent our frustrations. So it's a good idea to have different sections for different objectives.
I'm sure RPM will agree to this one.
We have some great members with an incredible combined knowledge and I'm sure most of us will be willing to help in any way we can.
----------------
United we stand!
----------------
I personally wish we didn't have to moan and groan about ADSL, but until something gets done, we all need somewhere to vent our frustrations. So it's a good idea to have different sections for different objectives.
I'm sure RPM will agree to this one.
We have some great members with an incredible combined knowledge and I'm sure most of us will be willing to help in any way we can.
----------------
United we stand!
----------------
Quazzi
23-09-2003, 05:38 PM
You guys can count me in on this endeavour. I don't mind spending time on something thats going to benefit us. As I posted elsewhere, I'm going to approach the Wits Law Clinic on some advice on how to become official - I'll also consult my attourney for two views on the subject, I'll respond when I get something concrete.
Quazzi
23-09-2003, 05:39 PM
for interests sake - http://www.southafrica.co.za/service.html
maybe we should approach them too?
maybe we should approach them too?
Peapod
23-09-2003, 07:46 PM
Is there some way we can post a working document on the forum where we can add bits and bobs as the strategy takes shape?
We need to have it transparent so all members can view it but only those actively working on it can edit it...any ideas?
Second time i've posted this note but the two threads are kinda merging
We need to have it transparent so all members can view it but only those actively working on it can edit it...any ideas?
Second time i've posted this note but the two threads are kinda merging
ezanolin
02-10-2003, 01:51 PM
------------------------------------------------
Divided we still stand.
------------------------------------------------
Count me in, A consumer watchdog is the only way that we are ever going to get through the corruption in this business. What do we need? Any lawyers out there? Maybe we need to get a bill passed, badger our local MP's? I dont know, but I'm sure someone does.
Comments please.
Divided we still stand.
------------------------------------------------
Count me in, A consumer watchdog is the only way that we are ever going to get through the corruption in this business. What do we need? Any lawyers out there? Maybe we need to get a bill passed, badger our local MP's? I dont know, but I'm sure someone does.
Comments please.
WhatsUp
02-10-2003, 08:40 PM
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by ASF</i>
Telkom monopoly is actually detremental to the economy of this country. Business relies on communication so Telkom affects each and every one of us in some shape or form.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Here are two(2) good one's to start with...
<b>(Harmful) Business Practices Comittee:</b>
c/o Department of Trade and Industry
P/Bag X84
Pretoria
0001
Tel: (012) 310-9579
Fax: (012) 320-1417
and
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by ASF</i>
Secondly, and this is the hard one, pressure should be brought to bear on govt to:
1. Replace the Minister of Communications with someone who is qualified to hold such an important post
2. Accelerate the deregulation process for the good of the country...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Government Ombudsman:
P/Bag X677
Pretoria
0001
Tel: (012) 322-2915/6
Fax: (012) 322-5093
tollfree: 0800-112040
<hr noshade size="1">
In addition to the above, this little clause from the
<b>ACT NO. 103 OF 1996: TELECOMMUNICATIONS ACT, 1996</b> has the following:
"<b>section 44(7)</b> In the application of section 43(1)(e)(iii) and (4)(b) in relation to making the telecommunication facilities of Telkom available to another person and where the Authority is satisfied <u>that Telkom is unwilling or unable to make suitable facilities available</u> to that person within a reasonable period of time, the Authority may, instead of proposing terms and conditions as contemplated in section 43(4)(b), authorise that person to provide or obtain any necessary telecommunication facilities other than from Telkom on conditions determined by the Authority, notwithstanding the provisions of sections 37(2)(c), 38(2), 40(2) and 41(2)(a) and this section."
<hr noshade size="1">
and
"Uncompetitive actions
53. If it appears to the Authority that the holder of a telecommunication licence is taking or intends taking any action which has or is likely to have the effect of giving <u>an undue preference to or causing undue discrimination against any person or category of persons</u>, the Authority may, after giving the licensee concerned an opportunity to be heard, direct the licensee by written notice to cease or refrain from taking such action, as the case may be."
1). Does the undue preference part apply to Telkom employee's who
get special preferential rates?
2). Does the undue discrimination part apply to the ADSL users as
compared to the Analog and ISDN users, who are in fact paying a lot
less for a guaranteed service?
<hr noshade size="1">
If at first you can't download, try and then try again...
Telkom monopoly is actually detremental to the economy of this country. Business relies on communication so Telkom affects each and every one of us in some shape or form.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Here are two(2) good one's to start with...
<b>(Harmful) Business Practices Comittee:</b>
c/o Department of Trade and Industry
P/Bag X84
Pretoria
0001
Tel: (012) 310-9579
Fax: (012) 320-1417
and
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by ASF</i>
Secondly, and this is the hard one, pressure should be brought to bear on govt to:
1. Replace the Minister of Communications with someone who is qualified to hold such an important post
2. Accelerate the deregulation process for the good of the country...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Government Ombudsman:
P/Bag X677
Pretoria
0001
Tel: (012) 322-2915/6
Fax: (012) 322-5093
tollfree: 0800-112040
<hr noshade size="1">
In addition to the above, this little clause from the
<b>ACT NO. 103 OF 1996: TELECOMMUNICATIONS ACT, 1996</b> has the following:
"<b>section 44(7)</b> In the application of section 43(1)(e)(iii) and (4)(b) in relation to making the telecommunication facilities of Telkom available to another person and where the Authority is satisfied <u>that Telkom is unwilling or unable to make suitable facilities available</u> to that person within a reasonable period of time, the Authority may, instead of proposing terms and conditions as contemplated in section 43(4)(b), authorise that person to provide or obtain any necessary telecommunication facilities other than from Telkom on conditions determined by the Authority, notwithstanding the provisions of sections 37(2)(c), 38(2), 40(2) and 41(2)(a) and this section."
<hr noshade size="1">
and
"Uncompetitive actions
53. If it appears to the Authority that the holder of a telecommunication licence is taking or intends taking any action which has or is likely to have the effect of giving <u>an undue preference to or causing undue discrimination against any person or category of persons</u>, the Authority may, after giving the licensee concerned an opportunity to be heard, direct the licensee by written notice to cease or refrain from taking such action, as the case may be."
1). Does the undue preference part apply to Telkom employee's who
get special preferential rates?
2). Does the undue discrimination part apply to the ADSL users as
compared to the Analog and ISDN users, who are in fact paying a lot
less for a guaranteed service?
<hr noshade size="1">
If at first you can't download, try and then try again...
beyers
02-10-2003, 10:06 PM
Hi all
I think we should consider registering as a non-profit, (Article 21?)Company (NGO). Then start lobbying for recognition as widely as possible. This will be a hard and long road, and be sure that Telkom will be the VERY LAST to participate in the official recognition.
For a start we can try to affiliate with relevant governmental regulatory bodies. Also, we can look out for partners in quest for better service.
I think that this NGO can eventually grow into somethin bigger, with an enlarged jurisdiction. But it may be a good idea to start with the ADSL issue first and grow from that firm basis.
If there are people on this forum with the necessary legal background to give us useful advice on the way forward with the idea of forming a legitimate body, please come forward.
Also, I think we would need legal people to advise other legal stuff as well. I am sure Telkom's legal team is looking very carefully for something to catch us out.
Cheers
I think we should consider registering as a non-profit, (Article 21?)Company (NGO). Then start lobbying for recognition as widely as possible. This will be a hard and long road, and be sure that Telkom will be the VERY LAST to participate in the official recognition.
For a start we can try to affiliate with relevant governmental regulatory bodies. Also, we can look out for partners in quest for better service.
I think that this NGO can eventually grow into somethin bigger, with an enlarged jurisdiction. But it may be a good idea to start with the ADSL issue first and grow from that firm basis.
If there are people on this forum with the necessary legal background to give us useful advice on the way forward with the idea of forming a legitimate body, please come forward.
Also, I think we would need legal people to advise other legal stuff as well. I am sure Telkom's legal team is looking very carefully for something to catch us out.
Cheers