Hello all. I have an excellent plan! No joke.

RPM, if u read this plz msg me via yahoo. My email is in details.

To all of you who are sut for Telkom I have a plan that might just work. No it does not involve alternate service but brute force!

We are going to fine them. REALLY! Telkoms gets money from this ADSL service and their ISP service. If they charge what they are charging for delivery of that service "ADSL" it may b possible to claim back 4 any non-delivery or overcharging of service not provided. U follow my drift .

Hence lets say it costs R1000/mnth 4 this service. That is about R33 a day, R1.37/hr for the month.

If anyone of us calim that back for any non-delivery/breach off contract for the day service is not delivered.......IMAGINE 1000 myadsl unhappy chappies X R33 = R33000.

Now thats a chunk of their earnings alright.

Tell me what ya guys think. After all they have reimbursed me b4 4 non delvery of telephone service.

You have no chance - their service is based on 'best effort' provision, which can be utilised as legal grounds for repudiation of any claim. You can't 'fine' Telkom - you're just a consumer, not an authoritative body. The only way to improve the service is through constant pressure by consumer forums such as this one (MyADSL), formal complaint through to the Regulator and ICASA, or by negotiation directly with them, which RPM has previously undertaken with limited success to date. The other way to ensure improvement is through the threat of reduced revenues due to loss of market share (i.e. competition), which may happen soon due to the impending Sentech offerings...

Well i am back and i c MBS has not read or thought about the holes in telkoms advertising. I have however and it seems i am right. Just waiting for confirmation in the form of a re-imbursement.

My argument put to them is without escape. They cannot argue otherwise. Hell i am even willing to go to samll claims if neccessary.

And those "individuals" who think joining SENTECH will solve their problems.....think again.

R1599 for a connection its only advantage for most users will be no cap.....yeah right.

They are also using same pipe out of the country as TELSCUM. So bet you will be getting same bandwidth issues.

And then their is the sucker 24 mnth contract......read it carefully boys and girls.

THE ONLY WAY AROUND THIS IS PROPER COMPETITION NOT A CELL_C Vodacom, MTN alliance situation. And we know that while corruption will always be rife in SA this will never happen.

CIao all

"They are also using same pipe out of the country as TELSCUM. So bet you will be getting same bandwidth issues"

Warthogmuddy actually their not their using their sat network to go international not telkom Actually the only part that has ANYTHING to do with telkom is the IS bandwidth their purchasing. So please I realise you checked your source for this complaint/re-emburse thing but check your facts on other services before saying that they will have the same problem.

Regards
Cerberus

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">They are also using same pipe out of the country as TELSCUM. So bet you will be getting same bandwidth issues.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">tch tch tch... just how ignorant can some people get [|)]

Yea, it is posible to claim back from telkom on a loss of service (not degradation) for more than 24 Hours.

R33,000 is hardly alot of money.

<hr noshade size="1">
"Since light travels faster than sound, people appear bright until you hear them speak."

NetLink Research

Hi Warthogmuddy

Thanks for the idea.

I think the only way in which one will be able to improve the service or lower the rates will be through negotiations with Telkom, an ICASA complaint or competition (as Mbs suggested). I tried the first option, but it was not of much value. I am nearly finished with a full ICASA complaint (the third so far), but have spoken to certain ICASA management who promised that it will not be binned this time. We are definitely overcharged for some services, but to prove it will not be easy. The modem charges are one example. We all know that one can get this kind of modem for a few hundred rand, but since the specific modem is not available anywhere else in the world it is not easy to prove. What makes it even more difficult is that ICASA was involved in approving these specific modems.

The best we can do is to research the issues and continue the battle, which is what we are doing. Make no mistake that people are taking note of the activity on this forum and about issues raised here. Through continual pressure I am fairly certain that we will succeed.

Regards,

RPM
[email protected]

Good day

RPM, don't you think it might be worth while getting a Telkom employees union involved with the struggle for better service at some point?

I personaly think it is a natural progression in terms of consumer actions to get better service at more affordable and competitive prices.

I guess the best situation for all parties involved would be one where we aim for a win-win situation. In other words one where Telkom and its customers end up better off. Above all, one where South Africa as a whole is better off. Telkom is perhaps THE tool we can use to boost our economy and improve the lives of all South Africans. At the moment I do not think Telkom is doing the country any favour but it can change!

The problem we are sitting with is that Telkom is so bent on giving basic services to the masses that it ignores the provision and sometimes introduction of quality and affordable premium services to those at the forefront who created economic growth. This results in a situation where we provide outdated services to the masses in our country while neglecting to keep the country moving forward with new technology that creates wealth all over the world and should be doing the same here. The only reason it isn't is Telkoms obvious neglect... But it can change. We just have to constantly engage Telkom executives and others who have an interest.

Cheers
Antowan

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by rpm</i>
<br />Hi Warthogmuddy

Thanks for the idea.

I think the only way in which one will be able to improve the service or lower the rates will be through negotiations with Telkom, an ICASA complaint or competition (as Mbs suggested). I tried the first option, but it was not of much value. I am nearly finished with a full ICASA complaint (the third so far), but have spoken to certain ICASA management who promised that it will not be binned this time. We are definitely overcharged for some services, but to prove it will not be easy. The modem charges are one example. We all know that one can get this kind of modem for a few hundred rand, but since the specific modem is not available anywhere else in the world it is not easy to prove. What makes it even more difficult is that ICASA was involved in approving these specific modems.

The best we can do is to research the issues and continue the battle, which is what we are doing. Make no mistake that people are taking note of the activity on this forum and about issues raised here. Through continual pressure I am fairly certain that we will succeed.

Regards,

RPM
[email protected]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

He who does not understand the value of war at the right time, cannot comprehend the value of life at any time - Anonymous

I earn more than that a month, telkom pay the government their share (which is a couple of 100 million rand)

you think they'll worry about a few cents?

For Antowan - that's an interesting take: involve their union(s) to effect potential change in Telkom management decision-making?! Whilst perhaps theoretically plausible, it's practically highly improbable, given the nature of management-worker relationships in most state organs, which is primarily highly confrontational. If it were cooperative in nature with common interest, then perhaps. However, most unions are concerned with bread-and-butter worker issues (i.e. their take-home pay, hours of work, benefits, etc.), and I imagine the Telkom union(s) would not be much different. I suppose the trick here would be to convince both the union and Telkom management that it would be in their common interest to listen to MyADSL - the question is then how do you do this? Suggestions?

lol, noone... we seem to be on the exact same wavelength today.

That is a good question. How?

I think the first step would be to test the water and invite them for a simple coffee. Talk with them in a friendly and open environment. In other words the first meeting/s will be about nothing specific but to get to know eachother. If for no other reason than the fact that we share one thing... Telkom.

I think we will be surprised at where we will be able to find friends.

I know it sounds a bit far fetched but many a dispute have been solved this way.

If it doesn't work I have a very good book about negotiations that I can share with you guys. )

Cheers
Antowan


<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mbs</i>
<br />For Antowan - that's an interesting take: involve their union(s) to effect potential change in Telkom management decision-making?! Whilst perhaps theoretically plausible, it's practically highly improbable, given the nature of management-worker relationships in most state organs, which is primarily highly confrontational. If it were cooperative in nature with common interest, then perhaps. However, most unions are concerned with bread-and-butter worker issues (i.e. their take-home pay, hours of work, benefits, etc.), and I imagine the Telkom union(s) would not be much different. I suppose the trick here would be to convince both the union and Telkom management that it would be in their common interest to listen to MyADSL - the question is then how do you do this? Suggestions?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

He who does not understand the value of war at the right time, cannot comprehend the value of life at any time - Anonymous

OK Antowan - gotcha. Sorry, I should have been clearer - the 'how' did not really question the mechanics of negotiation, but rather the content to achieve the desired end-result. The problem is that there are at least 7 representative unions recognised by Telkom (Communication Workers Union, Postal and Telecommunication Association, National Union of Metalworkers of South Africa, South African Telecommunications Association - I'm not sure who the others are), by far the biggest being the first. CWU is, in turn, an affiliate of COSATU, which has a stated policy regarding telecommunications that essentially revolves around ensuring the rollout of basic services to the unconnected masses. See http://www.cosatu.org.za/press/2001/Intended_Telecommunications_Policy_Directions--19442.html
A negotiator would be therefore be hard-pressed to convince a representative of CWU/COSATU to support the ADSL case, a service which will probably be seen as being 'elitist', given the current state of our national comms. So... how does one sell the case? At the end of the day, I wouldn't mind have 7 x nth cups of coffee with each union representative, but it would be essential to have one's ducks in a row... [][]

Hi

I understand the problems you foresee. [] I think it is very important to be realistic about the situation but we have to engage these mentioned parties in order to understand where they come from and to enable them to see or hear our point of view. We all have very important issues that do need to be sorted out and what better way is there than if we all came together and helped one another?

I think we all will agree that there is a need to get the majority of the people in this country communicating and hooked up to at least a basic phone service. But we cannot do this at the expense of the overall development of the communication infrastructure. We are and should remain the most advanced country in Africa. It does not help us much sitting with a phone line in every house while the rest of the world enjoys advanced economies where trade is happening increasingly online with high bandwidth internet.

Ballance is key. It also doesn't help us having the technology available but at such a cost where nobody opts to use it...

Cheers
Antowan

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mbs</i>
<br />OK Antowan - gotcha. Sorry, I should have been clearer - the 'how' did not really question the mechanics of negotiation, but rather the content to achieve the desired end-result. The problem is that there are at least 7 representative unions recognised by Telkom (Communication Workers Union, Postal and Telecommunication Association, National Union of Metalworkers of South Africa, South African Telecommunications Association - I'm not sure who the others are), by far the biggest being the first. CWU is, in turn, an affiliate of COSATU, which has a stated policy regarding telecommunications that essentially revolves around ensuring the rollout of basic services to the unconnected masses. See http://www.cosatu.org.za/press/2001/Intended_Telecommunications_Policy_Directions--19442.html
A negotiator would be therefore be hard-pressed to convince a representative of CWU/COSATU to support the ADSL case, a service which will probably be seen as being 'elitist', given the current state of our national comms. So... how does one sell the case? At the end of the day, I wouldn't mind have 7 x nth cups of coffee with each union representative, but it would be essential to have one's ducks in a row... [][]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

He who does not understand the value of war at the right time, cannot comprehend the value of life at any time - Anonymous

For Antowan - I'm with you on the single point of relevance to such negotiations you've raised, viz. the conscious promotion of mechanisms that facilitiate trade and consequently promote jobs. I'm sure all Unions buy into this standard principle, but it won't fly in the face of the need to promote national connectivity for the unconnected (this being, of course, basic telephony services). Don't forget, the latter is actually a political and government policy - as COSATU is a member of the ruling tri-partitie government alliance, national connectivity will remain a priority, so we won't get much support from organised labour. [][xx(]

Thinking about this one a bit further, though - what about getting organised business, instead of organised labour, on our side? It seems to me that organised business would have a far more direct interest in the promotion of efficient ADSL services and related technologies - after all, most businesses pay a small fortune every month for digital leased lines, when all they may need is a proper ADSL offering. In this regard, perhaps a single, professional and detailed approach to organised business will be effective (no emotive rants, raves, expletives, etc.), maybe in the form of a common letter by RPM, based on the outline provided by PEAPOD a while ago, to the following will help:

- South African Chamber of Business
- National African Federated Chamber of Business
- Foundation for African Business and Consumer Services
- Afrikaanse Handelsinstituut
- Black Business Forum

There may be others, particularly given the recent moves towards a single representative body for organised business, but I don't think this has happened yet (I may be wrong). Then, to take it even further, I would suggest an approach also be made to the Department of Trade and Industry, who are concerned with the Proudly South African campaign and whose mandate includes the promotion of South African trade and industry, to point out the negative effects of Telkom's service offerings (this will probably cause a spat between them and the Department of Communication, but what the hell...). The DTI also has quite a powerful unit under its wing, viz. the Centre for Public Service Innovation, which would very possibly side with any motivations/interventions designed to promote the innovative use of connectivity technology.

For general comment and suggestions, particularly a response from RPM...

I have to agree with mbs. Approaching organised business may be that way to go.

Suing Telkom is not a possibility , the all encompasing 'terms of *koff* service' covers them too well.

Maybe not hey but nonetheless the more people get involved in this the merrier and I got here via Frasers Razor in the Mail & Guardian so u would do well to contact him on a regular basis and get him interested as the fact that he quoted this website must have gotten a lot of ppl interested

toady

[}]<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by ASnogarD</i>
<br />Suing Telkom is not a possibility , the all encompasing 'terms of *koff* service' covers them too well.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">