MySignal.exe [Archive]

ProAsm

22-02-2004, 10:40 PM

For the want of a better name [:D]

MySignal (mark 1) is a proggy I made to constantly show the Signal Strength in an analog manner from a MyWireless Modem.

Great to walk around with the modem (or antenna) looking for the best signal.
It also shows the Base Station number, Battery health and Signal to Noise ratio.

Just unzip to any folder and double click on the MySignal.exe and it will create an icon on your desktop for future.

ftp://proasm.kicks-ass.net/

NB You must NOT be connected to the internet to use MySignal.

Comments ?

AcidRaZor

22-02-2004, 10:42 PM

eh? yea, whats the point if your usb cable is only SO long

plus... ;) how do i connect this damn ethernet cable? winxp users are dumb (yes, i just called myself dumb)

ProAsm

22-02-2004, 10:46 PM

Just in my study I improved from 19% to 24% by moving around to find the best spot [:)]

AcidRaZor

22-02-2004, 10:59 PM

those of us WITH studies and laptops :)

AcidRaZor

22-02-2004, 11:00 PM

maybe i should make a little lcd display that plugs into the modem to read the signal strenght etc

Cloud

23-02-2004, 12:34 AM

cool prog proasm.

now all i need is a modem, an account and an active base station then i can use it.

BRING ON THE CAPE TOWN STATIONS!!!!![:p]

Verbatim

23-02-2004, 09:38 AM

Thanks, Asm, you are a Pro!

I get readings like yours, but now I have to find a way to hang the modem from the ceiling and to suspend a tea tray behind it. [;)]

ProAsm

23-02-2004, 10:38 AM

Update to version 1.1 - bug found when using in Windows98 - Config menu was not working correctly.

freeek

23-02-2004, 07:37 PM

lol @v1.1, maybe you can get and lcd thing from modshop and start selling a gizmo to display where you get best signal

..- dot dot dash ;)

pixistyx

23-02-2004, 08:11 PM

cheese and rice!!!
this is kewl!!

sentech should ship it with the friggin modem!!!
[:D]

-------------------------
WWCD?

TadMadLad

23-02-2004, 08:26 PM

is it possible for you to release the source in any way?

ProAsm

23-02-2004, 10:29 PM

Update to version 1.2
Now more sensitive and battery was not showing true value.

ftp://proasm.kicks-ass.net/

Regarding the source - lets wait a while as I'm not sure where I stand with it atm [:)]
Written in C++Builder 5

TadMadLad

24-02-2004, 07:52 AM

Thanx Proasm, if you could supply a component (yes, i live in a component world still, call me old school), it would be great.

I would like to incorporate it into a webpage or a monitor to check when during the day my signal goes down, and up and so forth.

either way it would be great to learn how the device works

I havent mentioned it, but nice proggy. I Dont know if you have seen a little utility called filesplit (or splitfile, cant remember which way around), it is simple, and precise, does exactly what one needs. I rate your proggy in the same category. Less bulk, to the point.

flashvc

24-02-2004, 07:57 AM

PRo, is there any way of interfacing with the modem over PPPoE ?

--

TadMadLad

24-02-2004, 08:10 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by flashvc
 PRo, is there any way of interfacing with the modem over PPPoE ?

--

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I dont want to sound like an idiot, but i prolly will.
But wouldnt the modem have to run some kind of protocol if it was available on ethernet. be it simular to a jet direct printer or a ipx device.

If we could start a section for programming for the device, that would be awesome, I am also interested to hear if we can communicate with the device over ethernet connection.

Does the Modem stor any information/statistics?

flashvc

24-02-2004, 09:48 AM

It should. Most ethernet based devices normally have a telnet/web interface.

--

ProAsm

24-02-2004, 10:21 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I Dont know if you have seen a little utility called filesplit (or splitfile, cant remember which way around)<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"><blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">SPLITFIL /FILENAME.EXT /nn
Will split a large file into nn files
Where nn is 01 to 99 (NB.. 2 digits)
FILENAME.COM = Merger program<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
You talking about Splitfil.com ?
Approx 2 k long - written 02/08/1999 ?
Runs in Dos ?

If so, thats mine and I wrote it in Assembler [;)]

flashvc

24-02-2004, 10:41 AM

Eh? Am I missing a post here???

--

TadMadLad

24-02-2004, 11:46 AM

Dont you think its those big router stuff that have telnet.

this one might only have web page (since they have actually made a web server that fits on a IC) (search for smallest web server)

but once again, I am waffling, not really doing my research.

btw. Finding source code or any information about the internals of the device is like finding chicken teeth.

http://wireless.newsfactor.com/perl/story/20977.html#story-start
this site actually have a picture of the one we are getting in SA.. Kind of narrows down that the device we have is not unique to SA.

There is also mention about technologies that came out together, WPAN and WMAN. Details that are hazy still, but learning slowly.

I learn from a unknown source (unless he tells you himself), that it is normal hays commands that you send to the device. But I dont know if there is other commands that you could send to the device over and above the standard.

as i say again. Still learning.
Might as well learn more , Not getting any signal.

TadMadLad

24-02-2004, 11:50 AM

Proasm, I wrote one in pascal, back in 1993-4 :) but no, not the dos one :)
I have it in my utils folder
its a little windows one 84kb, splits files, and plonks them back together. simple, no install, easy. like program should be :)

heheh. I can see we are going to start measuring some body parts soon.:p

flashvc

24-02-2004, 11:59 AM

Yep..still missing a post here [;)]

Yeah..it's the ipwireless modem, I wonder..if I mail them, would they respond ?

--

ProAsm

24-02-2004, 06:13 PM

Be very carefull when sending the modem Hayes commands, I did that and crashed the modem.
Most the simple ones work but once you connect its a whole new ball game, your screen fills up with "garbage" so quick and you have to wait till done before you can disconnect [V]
I actually played around with a "faulty" modem so crashing it was not a problem [:D]

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Yeah..it's the ipwireless modem, I wonder..if I mail them, would they respond ?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Only if you are a client and paid your $1 mil deposit [:D]

ProAsm

25-02-2004, 12:18 AM

MySignal just got a whole lot better and changed its looks [;)]

ftp://proasm.kicks-ass.net/

I tried removing the form but my graphics ain't so good [V]

TrXtR

25-02-2004, 09:53 AM

Ey. Question about this modem.

Currently we cannot see signal strength while connected, cause were using COM with AT to talk. so only one channel, and when data connection is in use, we cannot talk.

But isnt there a more direct way to the modem? Or is this modem a serial only device? Or is it possible communicating through the USB with some sort of API? I Mean, are the drivers COM port drivers for a USB modem, or is it possible for another form of communication that would allow to get modem statistics while being connected ?

blah, in the end, I want signal strength while connected :)

ProAsm

25-02-2004, 10:08 PM

I'm still trying to figure the modem out and yes my aim is to have the signal strength while connected and fortunately I have another "test" modem to play with.
When the modem is offline, you can use AT or CG and CR commands, but the moment you tell it to connect ATD*99# and it connects, the stuff streams in at such a rate of knots that any display program you are using (hyperterminal) is miles too slow to display the stuff.
So I made an assembler routine and dumped the stuff to memory then saved it to the hard drive and busy figuring all this stuff out atm.
Now I figured once the modem is connected, the normal AT etc commands dont work.
What I want to do now is make a complete logon program and just before I connect, switch it to a Leased Line Modem using +++ Escape commands if it allows me, and hopefully I have some joy here [;)]

Some usefull stuff:
ATI4 = IPWireless modem
ATI11 = UE Software Built: Aug 12 2003 19:37:48

Quering the commands AT&V gives:

ACTIVE PROFILE:
E0 Q0 V1 X4 &C1 &D2 &S0 &Y0
S00:000 S01:000 S02:043 S03:013 S04:010 S05:008 S07:050 S08:002
S09:006 S10:014 S12:050 S14:136 S21:052 S22:069 S25:005 S27:002
S36:000 S37:000 S38:020 S39:003 S61:000 S95:000

STORED PROFILE 0:
E1 Q0 V1 X4 &C1 &D2 &S0
S00:000 S01:000 S02:043 S03:013 S04:010 S05:008 S07:050 S08:002
S09:006 S10:014 S12:050 S14:138 S21:052 S22:069 S25:005 S27:002
S36:000 S37:000 S38:020 S39:003 S61:000 S95:000

STORED PROFILE 1:
E1 Q0 V1 X4 &C1 &D2 &S0
S00:000 S01:000 S02:043 S03:013 S04:010 S05:008 S07:050 S08:002
S09:006 S10:014 S12:050 S14:138 S21:052 S22:069 S25:005 S27:002
S36:000 S37:000 S38:020 S39:003 S61:000 S95:000

Whatever you do dont ever send a AT&C1 - bye bye modem [V]

TrXtR

26-02-2004, 03:34 PM

Why assembler ? hehe
I'll probably check this stuff out over the weekend,
but if you do figure anything out :) Post here,
that way, we can let you do the dirty work, and we can use it :)

Thanx for the AT&C1 tip :) Will probably be usefull.
So how did you learn this ? By experience ?

ProAsm

26-02-2004, 07:22 PM

Experience, trial and error, blowing up a few things etc.. [:D]

TheRoDent

26-02-2004, 09:00 PM

What happens when you send AY&C1 ? Is the device damaged beyond repair? Does it need to be re-flashed?

ckleynhans

26-02-2004, 09:22 PM

Would really like to know how the ethernet connect works. Telnet doesn't seem to get a response on the conventional port. Maybe there is a special port. It should be standard, otherwise the router won't know how to talk with it. If anybody knows or find out, please post here.

Thanx

ProAsm

27-02-2004, 12:13 AM

Thanks for the mails on MySignal and I agree it is a bit big [:)]
2.2 cut down to 75% and neatened up a bit [;)]

Jhbgirl

29-02-2004, 07:54 AM

Okay, I must be totally blonde or something but when I open mysignal I get nothing? No base station, nothing. Am I supposed to click connect on the little telephone? I did try that and nothing. Does it take some time? I was offline whilst trying. HELP? ;)

ProAsm

29-02-2004, 08:47 AM

If you are using Xp then just click on connect (yellow telephone), maybe a few times if you have other stuff running in the background like M$ Office (grrrrrrr)[V]
If you are using Win98 then you need to click on the Config button first.

<hr noshade size="1">
<center>http://www.unrealza.co.za/proasm/mywireless.html
</center>

Jhbgirl

29-02-2004, 09:07 AM

YAY! It's working now...thanks so much :)

gbh

29-02-2004, 04:20 PM

Proasm, your Mysignal.exe works great. I increased my signal from 15% to 45%, just by moving around the house.Only snag is my daughters room has the best signal and my study the worst ! I can see the tower out the window from her room ! Can I rig an external aerial so that I can work from my study ?

ProAsm

29-02-2004, 04:45 PM

Yes, once the connectors come into stock, get yourself a patch antenna and erect it in your daughters room. A patch antenna is small and looks like a rectangular box (5cm x 10cm x 30cm) and can be stuck on the wall or window with double sided tape or prestik.
With a signal strength like that it would be interesting to to some tests for us, especially if you can get a higher reading.
If you got 45% with only the modem, then a patch antenna should push you into the 80+ area. [:)]

<hr noshade size="1"><center>http://www.unrealza.co.za/proasm/mywireless.html</center>

gbh

29-02-2004, 04:48 PM

what tests would you like me to do ? I'll do them from both locations - 15% and 45% and give you the results right now if you like

AcidRaZor

29-02-2004, 05:42 PM

ping tests dude

ping tests

[8D]

hArTh

29-02-2004, 07:06 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by noone
 ping tests dude

ping tests

[8D]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

[}:)] <- Wishes gbh would hurry and post some pings

Rhino

29-02-2004, 07:13 PM

Another stupid question........ wot address must be used to ping??[:I]

gbh

29-02-2004, 07:22 PM

what would you like me to ping ?

Spikes

29-02-2004, 07:27 PM

A game[:)]

A clear conscience is a sign of bad memory!

ProAsm

29-02-2004, 10:52 PM

Ping a Saix server - 196.25.69.221
Ping a Mweb server - 196.2.33.21

<hr noshade size="1"><center>http://www.unrealza.co.za/proasm/mywireless.html</center>

Spikes

29-02-2004, 11:14 PM

Maybe also an international server?

A clear conscience is a sign of bad memory!

ProAsm

03-03-2004, 08:44 PM

MySignal v2.5 now with logging and self install program.

For those that are interested pressing F1 to F9 will store current readings to MySignal.log
A timed display will also be seen at bottom of window.
We use this basically for distance measuring on Towers.
Pressing Insert will display the log.
Log format is:
K1 - Date/Time - BaseStation - Frequency - Signal Strength - Signal to Noise

http://www.unrealza.co.za/files/other/MySignalSetup.zip

<hr noshade size="1"><center>http://www.unrealza.co.za/proasm/mywireless.html</center>

Rhino

03-03-2004, 10:50 PM

What are these like??
Base: 36 and 44% sig.
No extra antenna

Pinging 196.2.33.21 with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 196.2.33.21: bytes=32 time=123ms TTL=119
Reply from 196.2.33.21: bytes=32 time=109ms TTL=119
Reply from 196.2.33.21: bytes=32 time=113ms TTL=119
Reply from 196.2.33.21: bytes=32 time=113ms TTL=119

Ping statistics for 196.2.33.21:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 109ms, Maximum = 123ms, Average = 114ms

Pinging 196.25.69.221 with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 196.25.69.221: bytes=32 time=110ms TTL=120
Reply from 196.25.69.221: bytes=32 time=114ms TTL=120
Reply from 196.25.69.221: bytes=32 time=115ms TTL=120
Reply from 196.25.69.221: bytes=32 time=101ms TTL=120

Ping statistics for 196.25.69.221:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 101ms, Maximum = 115ms, Average = 110ms

D:\>

ProAsm

04-03-2004, 12:13 AM

mmm I expected a bit better but it is an improvement on mine.
With 32% at work I get an ave of 125 ms.
With 25% at home I get an ave of 137 ms.

<hr noshade size="1"><center>http://www.unrealza.co.za/proasm/mywireless.html</center>

vangend

04-03-2004, 07:18 AM

K1 | 3/4/2 - 07:20 | 110 | 2530000 | 30% | -76 dBm

ProAsm, how is the distance measured with the timed display ?

ProAsm

04-03-2004, 08:13 AM

LOL - no the distance is not an automatic distance [:D]

Basically we use it for mobile testing.
We pullup to a Tower then drive away from it in one direction.
At 1 km we stop and press F1
At 2 km we stop and press F2
And so on.
Just a simple way as its better than writing things down while mobile [:)]

<hr noshade size="1"><center>http://www.unrealza.co.za/proasm/mywireless.html</center>

sneaky

04-03-2004, 03:12 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Rhino
 What are these like??
Base: 36 and 44% sig.
No extra antenna

Pinging 196.2.33.21 with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 196.2.33.21: bytes=32 time=123ms TTL=119
Reply from 196.2.33.21: bytes=32 time=109ms TTL=119
Reply from 196.2.33.21: bytes=32 time=113ms TTL=119
Reply from 196.2.33.21: bytes=32 time=113ms TTL=119

Ping statistics for 196.2.33.21:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 109ms, Maximum = 123ms, Average = 114ms

Pinging 196.25.69.221 with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 196.25.69.221: bytes=32 time=110ms TTL=120
Reply from 196.25.69.221: bytes=32 time=114ms TTL=120
Reply from 196.25.69.221: bytes=32 time=115ms TTL=120
Reply from 196.25.69.221: bytes=32 time=101ms TTL=120

Ping statistics for 196.25.69.221:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 101ms, Maximum = 115ms, Average = 110ms

D:\>
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Just me or does those pings not realy look to good?

________________________
Must think happy thoughts about the antenna!!!

Dr4k

04-03-2004, 05:04 PM

Hmmmmm

those pings dont look 2 good [:p] hehe , hopefully they will get better as sentech get more established with Mywireless.

ProAsm

06-03-2004, 02:42 PM

Upgraded to 2.6

Now has a log display icon and much larger signal display for when you walk around with an antenna [:)]
Get it from the site on my signature as it will be much faster than my local ftp server.

<hr noshade size="1"><center>http://www.unrealza.co.za/proasm/mywireless.html</center>

ckleynhans

06-03-2004, 04:04 PM

Now we are waiting for news on that long awaited ethernet version. Thanks for your effort.

Robone

07-03-2004, 12:25 PM

Running a bit of software that was obtained from www.tcpIQ.com for testing the speed of your connection giving and download and upload result
These are my results off a bad connection which hovers around 10% signal strength on my 128kbs mywireless
Test Time Download Speed (KBits/sec) Upload Speed (KBits/sec)
07 Mar 2004 12:24:30 116 49
06 Mar 2004 18:31:21 112 50
06 Mar 2004 14:50:12 121 49
06 Mar 2004 12:27:58 131 42
06 Mar 2004 12:17:32 97 37
06 Mar 2004 12:10:36 102 39

ProAsm

07-03-2004, 01:33 PM

Neat proggy [:)]

<hr noshade size="1"><center>http://www.unrealza.co.za/proasm/mywireless.html</center>

nroets

09-03-2004, 06:12 PM

MySignal displays SNR in dBm and "signal strength" in percent. These
two values have
1. Different values e.g. sometimes -100 dBm correlates with 6% and sometimes with 9%
2. % display is a bit unsensitive.
3. Different meanings i.e. if your signal is very strong, but in the process you also happen to amplify some noise source (say the neighbours' microwave oven), your antenna is no good.

I would assume that the modem can pick up all signal above say 5%, and once you achieve that then the best way would to be to improve the SNR. Especially if the SNR measurement includes the noise created by the ADC (which it probably does).

So <<Insert worthy title here>> ProAsm, should your program not have a big SNR display and a small % display ? Or even better, a big Bit Error Rate display.

ProAsm

09-03-2004, 08:48 PM

Once again, for the technical minded, Yes I agree but most people go by the percentage rate as understanding SNR is beyond the scope of many.
All readings displayed are not in anyway calculated or decided by myself but are generated internally in the modem and transmitted to me through special functions.
The modem can pickup signals as low as 1% and I have set the worst case senario at -110 dBm so you will never see worse than that as it most certainly does get carried away at this point [:D]
Bitrate displays are not possible simply because at that point the modem has switched over to RAS, this is the same reason why the signal strengths cannot be displayed while the modem is online.

<hr noshade size="1"><center>http://www.unrealza.co.za/proasm/mywireless.html</center>

flashvc

09-03-2004, 09:06 PM

This must be a driver limitation. I can't believe there's no way to query the BER while the modem is connected. Same with PPPoE mode..There simply MUST be a way [:)]

--

ProAsm

09-03-2004, 09:25 PM

Flash yes, it probably is a driver problem, but even so, lets say you start with 20% and once the modem is online and you move its position to say a probable 10% signal strength, when you query it, it still says 20% [:(]

<hr noshade size="1"><center>http://www.unrealza.co.za/proasm/mywireless.html</center>

Rhino

09-03-2004, 11:13 PM

ROBONE: What sites where those speeds from?

Robone

10-03-2004, 09:53 PM

Rhino www.tcpIQ.com

Robone

10-03-2004, 09:58 PM

Just ran a retest and these are all the results todate

10 Mar 2004 21:52:54 112 57 Unknown connection type. No
08 Mar 2004 22:51:53 120 58 Unknown connection type. No
07 Mar 2004 19:23:15 115 50 Unknown connection type. No
07 Mar 2004 15:42:16 152 53 Unknown connection type. No
07 Mar 2004 12:24:30 116 49 Unknown connection type. No
06 Mar 2004 18:31:21 112 50 Unknown connection type. No
06 Mar 2004 14:50:12 121 49 Unknown connection type. No
06 Mar 2004 12:27:58 131 42 Unknown connection type. No
06 Mar 2004 12:17:32 97 37 Unknown connection type. No
06 Mar 2004 12:10:36 102 39 Unknown connection type. No

ProAsm

11-03-2004, 12:43 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Someone asked for MySignal source, and ProAsm refused.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Its not that i refused but considering its commands used by IPWireless and hence purchased by companies in SA, I'm not quite sure where I stand regarding the source as I even encrypted the commands in MySignal, but now you've spilled the beans and soon there could be an uncountable amount of damaged modems and I will be the ******* who takes the rap [:(]

<hr noshade size="1"><center>http://www.unrealza.co.za/proasm/mywireless.html</center>

TheRoDent

11-03-2004, 03:58 AM

This is nothing more than anyone could have figured out whilst fiddling with a tool such as the built-in windows HyperTerminal. The device looks like a Hayes compatible modem under windows, and it's not like the Hayes command set is proprietary.

In fact, IPWireless could have done much better by just opening the specification, and documenting the entire command set from DAY ONE rather than keep it obscure.

They could have also stuck to the ACM modem control protocol for USB, so that other operating systems may easily access the modem.

I'm around 50% complete with the native Linux USB driver for the modem, and I've already mailed their technical department to ask for assistance in figuring out the proprietary USB bulk data transfer URB's they're using to communicate with the modem.

I can reverse engineer this myself, since USB reverse engineering on windows is quite simple, given enough time. The point is that there is no benefit in IPWireless keeping the information secret. Lots of other vendors have attempted this and ended up having their "proprietary" protocols reverse engineered. Let's face it. USB is a standard. I can sniff the stuff pretty easily. And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to eventually reverse engineer what is essentially a simple 2-way wire protocol without interrupt signalling, and a few vendor specific URB's. It just takes time, and if they're prepared to cooperate I'm not going to waste time on RE-ing it.

IPWireless's Intellectual Property is vested in the Silicon design they have embedded in the modems, and I'll bet they make more money of the base station hardware in any case...

ProAsm: Before you brought out the MySignal proggy, I already knew exactly which commands the dialler issued to retrieve signal strenght. No rocket science behind it. So don't even _consider_ taking flack for something that should have been public knowledge in the first place, or anyone could have broken by firing up HyperTerminal.

ProAsm

11-03-2004, 08:28 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">This is nothing more than anyone could have figured out whilst fiddling with a tool such as the built-in windows HyperTerminal. The device looks like a Hayes compatible modem under windows, and it's not like the Hayes command set is proprietary.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">And I suppose every Tom, Dick and Harry knows about Hayes commands and how to write to modems. It also takes a hell of a lot more than just fiddling to figure out these commands.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">ProAsm: Before you brought out the MySignal proggy, I already knew exactly which commands the dialler issued to retrieve signal strenght. No rocket science behind it. So don't even _consider_ taking flack for something that should have been public knowledge in the first place, or anyone could have broken by firing up HyperTerminal.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">YES I agree, but those that have the capability to do this is not many, and several on this forum were emailing me with regard to this as these people are professional and even though we all agree that it should have been made public in the first place, IT IS NOT for you, me or anyone else to decide what other companies should or should not do.
If IPWireless or anyone else decides not to publish the information then that is their perogative.

This kind of information should be kept private amongst ourselves and not published of a public forum which is read by 1000's including little kids that will now fiddle with their parents Modems and when broken they will insist the company swopout the modem free of charge and when they dont the company will be slammed into the ground for for being a bad company etc etc...

I'm sorry but I totally disagree with you, with your post and the previous post and find it unprofessional and irresponsible and if this is the way people are going to start behaving on this forum I will have no choice but to withdraw from it.
It is very easy for you sitting on the otherside of the fence to shout your mouth off on how good you are etc.. are but try sitting this side of the fence where you have no idea the flak I take from my company to be able to provide some assistance to people on this forum and this type of posting will most certainly bring all the to an end.

ajax

11-03-2004, 08:40 AM

I totally agree with ProAsm. He has been of great assistance to MyWireless users. To go against his wishes regarding the source of his proggy just shows total disrespect for him and the help he has given.

Ajax

nroets

11-03-2004, 09:57 AM

My standpoint is that we live in a society where people can often get away with not accepting responsibility for their actions.

Currently the financial regulator will shut down any small collective investment scheme on the basis that people have lost hunderds of millions of Rands in the past. This pales in comparison to the BILLIONS of Rands South Africans loose annually due to Sanlam etc. underperforming the index.

People are actually quite good at knowing when something is risky and when it is not. Especially if they are forced to bear the consequences

martin

11-03-2004, 10:39 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ProAsm
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">This is nothing more than anyone could have figured out whilst fiddling with a tool such as the built-in windows HyperTerminal. The device looks like a Hayes compatible modem under windows, and it's not like the Hayes command set is proprietary.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">And I suppose every Tom, Dick and Harry knows about Hayes commands and how to write to modems. It also takes a hell of a lot more than just fiddling to figure out these commands.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">ProAsm: Before you brought out the MySignal proggy, I already knew exactly which commands the dialler issued to retrieve signal strenght. No rocket science behind it. So don't even _consider_ taking flack for something that should have been public knowledge in the first place, or anyone could have broken by firing up HyperTerminal.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">YES I agree, but those that have the capability to do this is not many, and several on this forum were emailing me with regard to this as these people are professional and even though we all agree that it should have been made public in the first place, IT IS NOT for you, me or anyone else to decide what other companies should or should not do.
If IPWireless or anyone else decides not to publish the information then that is their perogative.

This kind of information should be kept private amongst ourselves and not published of a public forum which is read by 1000's including little kids that will now fiddle with their parents Modems and when broken they will insist the company swopout the modem free of charge and when they dont the company will be slammed into the ground for for being a bad company etc etc...

I'm sorry but I totally disagree with you, with your post and the previous post and find it unprofessional and irresponsible and if this is the way people are going to start behaving on this forum I will have no choice but to withdraw from it.
It is very easy for you sitting on the otherside of the fence to shout your mouth off on how good you are etc.. are but try sitting this side of the fence where you have no idea the flak I take from my company to be able to provide some assistance to people on this forum and this type of posting will most certainly bring all the to an end.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I think we should respect ProAsm's wishes in this regard. He has been a huge help in these forums. Maybe one of the mods could delete the offending posts. If some or other kiddie wants to break a modem, let's make sure that this forum does not provide them with any help in doing so.

rpm

11-03-2004, 10:47 AM

Hi

I agree that ProASM has been an excellent source of information and his wishes in this regard should be respected. I have deleted the post in question and I hope that we can limit future problems of this kind. Let us make certain that the plug does not get pulled on ProASM’s help and support.

Regards,

RPM
rpm@myadsl.co.za

lewstherin

11-03-2004, 11:31 AM

ProASM's input is invaluable - the insight and professionalism he has shown on this forum is an example to any Telkom employee of how to engage with your clients. The fact that he is willing to spend so much time and effort in helping MyWireless users not only shows his commitment to the forum but also to his company and its products. That kind of belief in his work is admirable and rare.

IMHO, hes become the best salesman MyWireless could ask for - and we need more ppl like him.

Rodent, whilst I see your point about the ease of RE'ing etc, you have to realise that such actions are illegal until IPWireless says so.
To post such information will implicate us all in this, and I stand with ProASM in refusing to be complicit to such actions.

ProASM, as RPM has stated, this forum is behind u - your wishes as far as CP, and use of information u provide, WILL be respected.

Telkom needs a leash, ICASA needs some guts, and the SA consumer needs to make it happen

TheRoDent

11-03-2004, 03:40 PM

Perhaps I should have qualified my "anyone could have figured out whilst fiddling" with a "anyone that ever used a BBS system or 2400bps modem, or are over the general age of 25...

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">It also takes a hell of a lot more than just fiddling to figure out these commands.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I classify what I did as "fiddling", since it took me about 15 minutes of "fiddling", but I guess that classification depends on one's personal definition of fiddling. It took nroets a couple of minutes of surfing to find the publically available information via etsi.org

I'm saying that it's not "sooper" secret stuff. In fact, the first lead is there when you go to the modem diagnostics, and dig a bit through the inf files, and do a "strings" through the wireless dialler, or use UsbSnoopy.

Why a modem is damageable through AT commands (with the specific one ProAsm has mentioned before) is ludicrous. Hell, this could happen the first time I started up HyperTerminal, or fax software, and accidentally selected the wrong COM port. Many communications programs send initialisation strings, and may of them could quite possibly ask for DCD to be on permanently, or send it as part of a default initialisation string.

I'm willing to bet that the modem dying due to the DCD command is a bug in the firmware, or possibly something that's just not well documented (seeing as there is ZERO documentation in any case). If there is a damaging command then it's in Sentech's and it's users' interest to get the firmware fixed.

According to the contract, Sentech owns the modem, during the contract period, so I can agree that if Sentech says "You're not allowed to send AT commands to it on your own" I'll have to comply.

Yet, ProAsm did this, and distributes a piece of software that is not endorsed by Sentech. You have done the userbase a great service ProAsm, and I applaud you for that. But what people do to the hardware is entirely not your fault, whether you disclosed the information or not. It's clear that the information is readily available in any case, so I really believe there's no reason to fear ProAsm getting into "trouble"... He also didn't post this information so I fail to see where, or why he would get into trouble. He just wrote a signal utility.

His writing the signal utility didn't magically make me, or nroets discover the modem commands. I looked at the Wireless dialler the first day I got my modem and reckoned "hmmm must be done thru some commands" and got hold of the strings as I've explained.

When nowire.co.za starts selling the modems retail, I could get one from them, and I would own it myself. I would then be legally allowed to send these commands to the modem, in fact I would be legally allowed to fry the thing in my Microwave if I so wish.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
IT IS NOT for you, me or anyone else to decide what other companies should or should not do.If IPWireless or anyone else decides not to publish the information then that is their perogative.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

In essence, that's what you do every day, when you support a product. You choose, and hence influence a company's way of doing business. You're right. IPWireless doesn't need to do squat in term of releasing information. But when the next manufacturer of a UMTS modem comes around that _does_ provide technical information, I can guarantee you what I will buy. I will vote with my money. IPWireless won't remain a monopoly in the market of UMTS.

Once again, I disagree that the device can be "broken" irreparably using a bad modem command. Possibly the worst may be that it needs to be flashed again. If it can be irreparably damaged, then it's a design flaw, and as I've illustrated it is then a dangerous design flaw, since there are many accidental ways in which those commands could reach the modem. Knowledge about the flaw in that situation is better for everyone rather than hiding the flaw.

The chances of software damaging the modem by accident is quite possibly higher, than the chances are the few interested forumites here will willingly and wantonly send "damaging commands" to their modems just to see if it really gets damaged.

Back to the legal edge:

The contract states that I need to "comply with Sentech's instructions which concern the use of the service, apparatus, or connected matters". That is the only obligation I have regards the modem, or its periphery (which interestingly enough will then include my PC too, as a "connected matter")

Sentech has NOT issued a "Don't send AT commands to the modem" instruction and neither have they issued a "Don't use/reverse engineer it under linux" instruction. Until such time as they do, I believe that continuing sharing of information about the technology is _not_ illegal, since this is pretty much a free country.

If they do issue such an instruction, I will laugh loudly, since as I've reiterated a few times now, it's quite possible for damaging commands to reach the modem purely by accident, and the fact that the device openly emulates a well defined standard (RS232 Hayes compatible modem) would make it even more laughable.

It would be the ludicrous equivalent of MWeb telling you that you're not allowed to send DCD modem commands when connecting to one of their POPs.

RPM, you haven't sensored any of the technical information about ADSL in the ADSL forums (that I'm aware of, I could be wrong) so I don't understand why you would do it in this case, unless ProAsm politely asked in his Sentech capacity, which I doubt he did...

I understand that it's a sensitive issue, but my point is that if ProAsm is allowed to have the information, why shouldn't anyone else? The information is readily available on another public website... Are you going to delete links to that site?

How about the antennae that have been discussed here? Surely they're not approved by Sentech, since they're not provided by their vendors. Are we going to sensor information about them too?

I'm not trying to be an a**hole here, I'm just questioning whether sensoring technical information about a modem device is worth it, or even required. And I'm stating my own "liberal-ish" opensource views, which is typically the kind of thing one would expect to happen on a discussion forum.

Still, this is your house rpm, and you are free to do what you need. I agreed to those terms. If it's going to stay sensored, then so be it. It's not going to stop me from running a small MyWireless technical information site without sensorship, pretty much the same as ProAsm is doing, and advertising it in my signature.

nroets

11-03-2004, 04:08 PM

Firstly:
SenTech claims that their modem are standards complyant. In fact I doubt that ICASA would have approved the modem if it was not complying to international standards.

Strangely when point out where one of the applicable standards can be obtained, and what they say, SenTech gets upset.

Secondly:
I have no doubt that someone (TheRoDent ?) develop a linux driver. I have developed my own linux driver for a propriatary PCI network card that uses interrupts and DMA. Surely a USB device can't be that hard.
(Un)Fortunately I run XP 24/7, so there is no incentive for me to work on the driver.

So IP Wireless can save linux users some time and just make a binary kernel module available. Then it is LESS likely that their trade secrets will leak out. Then it is LESS likely that someone will find out how to put the modem in promiscuis mode.

TheRoDent

11-03-2004, 04:11 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by lewstherin
ProASM's input is invaluable - the insight and professionalism he has shown on this forum is an example to any Telkom employee of how to engage with your clients.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I definately agree with you. ProAsm is the epitome of how business should be done.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Rodent, whilst I see your point about the ease of RE'ing etc, you have to realise that such actions are illegal until IPWireless says so.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I disagree here, completely. Their interest is vested in the Silicon and UMTS. Not the damn USB, or wire protocol that's used to communicate with the device. Vesting interest in a USB protocol is just stupid.

In fact, just to throw a spanner in the works. (From the MyWireless software help)

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
During installation of the Wireless Broadband Modem the connection type between the computer and the Wireless Broadband Modem is chosen. For the connection type chosen, the following drivers are installed and used.

USB connection driver:

www.mcci.com

Ethernet connection drivers:

WinPCAP - http://winpcap.polito.it

RASPPPoE – www.raspppoe.com
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

They're using opensource software for the PPoE connection, and it gets installed if you use the ethernet cable.

If the computer to device communications were so proprietary, why didn't they buy a closed stack?

TheRoDent

11-03-2004, 04:19 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by nroets
So IP Wireless can save linux users some time and just make a binary kernel module available. Then it is LESS likely that their trade secrets will leak out. Then it is LESS likely that someone will find out how to put the modem in promiscuis mode.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

There isn't enough proprietary information in the USB protocol to even warrant a binary module such as nVidia has for their hardware.

It's a simple dual channel Bulk-Transfer channel between modem and the endpoint. Over which clear, plaintext Hayes AT commands are sent, which are easily deduced from the enclosed windows .inf file. The initial USB Bulk channel setup is a bit cryptic, which is what I've asked IPWireless to clear up, but that can be deduced given enough time too.

Their driver is a bog standard USB "DataPump" with a silicon counterpart on the modem, which they outsourced to MCCI. In fact the MCCI generic datapump drivers are what gets installed when you install the software.

Hell, they're using opensource software for the PPPoE communications under windows.

It's patently obvious that they have no vested interest in the PC -> device communications, and I don't believe there's any way to modify the modem to do something it's not supposed to other than by hacking the firmware. It's like a cellphone. You can't make a cellphone easily do things on a GSM network that it's not supposed to do without hardware modification...

Why would a cellphone manufacturer close the standard of modem->PC communication? No reason. There's no use to doing it, other than hampering interoperability. Even the latest Nokia nGages' USB protocol is bog standard.

TheRoDent

11-03-2004, 04:41 PM

To put the final nail in the coffin:

3GPP TS 27.007 - AT command set for 3G User Equipment (UE)

publically available from 3gpp.org

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
The original scope of 3GPP was to produce globally applicable Technical Specifications and Technical Reports for a 3rd Generation Mobile System based on evolved GSM core networks and the radio access technologies that they support (i.e., Universal Terrestrial Radio Access (UTRA) both Frequency Division Duplex (FDD) and Time Division Duplex (TDD) modes). The scope was subsequently amended to include the maintenance and development of the Global System for Mobile communication (GSM) Technical Specifications and Technical Reports including evolved radio access technologies (e.g. General Packet Radio Service (GPRS) and Enhanced Data rates for GSM Evolution (EDGE)). <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

ProAsm

11-03-2004, 10:59 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Yet, ProAsm did this, and distributes a piece of software that is not endorsed by Sentech.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">And exactly where did you get this information from.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">so I really believe there's no reason to fear ProAsm getting into "trouble".<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Let me give you an example - the person who posted the rollout information for all the Towers in JHB, DBN an CT - my ass got fried for that as it was automatically assumed that I gave out that information, which I had absolutely nothing to do with, I was as much surprised as Sentech as that information was only released to us 3 days prior to the post.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Once again, I disagree that the device can be "broken" irreparably using a bad modem command.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">You just dont get it do you.
You just dont get it - tch.. tch.. tch.. [:(]

Ditch

11-03-2004, 11:32 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Once again, I disagree that the device can be "broken" irreparably using a bad modem command.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">You just dont get it do you.
You just dont get it - tch.. tch.. tch.. [:(]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I must say, the idea does seem 'wrong' to me that a modem could be damaged by sending it the 'wrong commands'. In theory the ideal is that a device MUST parse all inputs in a robust manner (not unlike e.g. TCP/IP services in Windows, where security bugs are often due to poor parsing of input). A modem could relatively easily innocently be sent 'bad/random data' by accident for many reasons; the firmware should be able to detect and ignore bad inputs or inputs that would make the modem do something "out of spec". In most cases firmware probably isn't written to be robust, but this is usually due to unreasonable deadlines, lazy programming (or both), not because robustness wasn't considered to be the 'right thing to do'. Other 'exceptions' would be hardware that *allows* the (knowledgable) user to configure it to run "out of spec", for example MBs that let you overclock CPUs, or NVIDIA cards that let you select the clock speeds.

TheRoDent

11-03-2004, 11:33 PM

I quote, from the Sentech MyWireless software agreement:

The parties acknowledge
that, in the European Union countries and in South Africa, a software directive by the European Union Commission mandates that a licensee of software shall be lawfully entitled to decompile such software for the purpose of obtaining the information necessary to achieve the interoperability of an independently created computer program with other programs, provided, among other things, that such information has not previously been readily available, and such decompilation is confined to the parts of the licensed program which
are necessary to achieve interoperability. 

Seems I'm allowed to reverse the thing as much as I want, in any case.

Deckert

11-03-2004, 11:35 PM

Why, that's just silly of them. So are you going to get your ass fried every time somebody posts something that Sentech deems secret, but is actually publicly available information? I got the tower roll-out info by asking for it, no coercion, no underhandedness. I actually only wanted the rollout in my area, but got handed the whole table instead.

OTOH, it tells me that Sentech is monitoring this forum, which is probably a good thing. At least some of our feedback gets back into Sentech at a higher level. ;-)

--deckert

TheRoDent

11-03-2004, 11:42 PM

Originally posted by ProAsm
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">And exactly where did you get this information from.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

So. You're saying you didn't write MySignal? Or that Sentech gave their approval?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Let me give you an example - the person who posted the rollout information for all the Towers in JHB, DBN an CT - my ass got fried for that as it was automatically assumed that I gave out that information, which I had absolutely nothing to do with, I was as much surprised as Sentech as that information was only released to us 3 days prior to the post.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

So, explain to me how you will get in trouble about modem commands that are freely available as part of the 3G standard? It's not like the commandset is company confidential...

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">You just dont get it do you.
You just dont get it - tch.. tch.. tch.. [:(]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Like I said, if the modem can be damaged using AT&C1 then it's a bug in the firmware, which should be corrected, since AT&C1 can be sent by any piece of software on a PC. And if there's something I just don't get, then pray tell, exactly what it is that I'm not getting.

By the way, this is the modem initialisation command: AT&FE0Q0V1&C1&D2S0=0

Notice the &C1 there... Strange that it should fry the modem if it's included in the basic initialisation string.

ProAsm

12-03-2004, 12:11 AM

TheRoDent
Tell me why did you have to make such an issue out of this.
What is it that you are after that you have to keep proving to everyone how knowledgable you are.
You alone have created such a HUGE awarness of this issue and I fail to understand why.
nroets is the one that had the "offending" post which got deleted and he has handled it in a very calm and professional manner, but you have chosen to throw all you toys out your cot and make an almighty issue out of something that never really concerned you in the first place.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">You just dont get it do you.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">It's a scaring tactic - do you NOW understand or do I have to explain what a scaring tactic is although you most certainly blew any intentions of mine right out the water.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Posted by lewstherin...
To post such information will implicate us all in this<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">It looks like TheRoDent has deliberately gone out of his way to do exactly what you suggest should not be done.

nroets

12-03-2004, 12:23 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ditch
I must say, the idea does seem 'wrong' to me that a modem could be damaged by sending it the 'wrong commands'.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yep, I agree. The only damage I see happening is when little Bobby [8)] implants a coat hanger into Mr.Roberts' modem after they were unable to source the correct connectors from the technology partner.

I suggest we all run 'ping -n -1 www.etsi.org' wait for the evil [}:)] site to be blocked.

TheRoDent

12-03-2004, 12:35 AM

I'm not making an issue out of it. I'm attempting to discuss it.

Here are the reasons why I keep highlighting the issue:

1. "Scare" tactics is hardly necessary. If your intent was to spread disinformation about the AT&C1 issue, then, you've succeeded. Also, it has backfired. You may want to think before doing something like that again.

2. The moment people start hiding things and talk "proprietary" and CP I get antsy. That's just my nature, and here's some news: There are a ****load of people out there that think the way I do. You cannot wish it away, and I am entitled to exactly the same privilege as you: freedom of expression.

3. You keep on trying to assert that the information is proprietary in nature and that Sentech somehow "owns" it, when I have clearly proven that it is a public standard.

4. Nic Roets hasn't gotten involved in this because probably, he doesn't give a damn, since he runs Windows XP in any case. I give a damn.

5. If you believe that I "have chosen to throw all my toys out my cot and make an almighty issue out of something that never really concerned me in the first place" then you are making another rude assumption. The assumption that you can decide for me what is and what isn't my concern. I'm a MyWireless user. I have the modem. I have Linux. I have technical capabilities. You bet your ass it's my concern. And even if it weren't, well, let me repeat that "freedom of expression" phrase.

Let's not talk about "professional" behaviour anymore then. You've behaved very professionally up till this point, and I've had a lot of respect for you.

But I've lost all that now you've confessed that the AT&C1 issue was just a huge lie. Thanks for all the fish.

nroets

12-03-2004, 03:12 AM

52a8c660316eca769645b5915445bddd

lewstherin

12-03-2004, 08:34 AM

Rodent posting 3 pages of arguments/facts/opionated BS really doesn't earn you friends.
You're acting out of an individual capacity, whereas ProASM acts out of an official capacity most of time by providing us with Sentech information.

The key is that he actually has some responsibilities to shoulder here - he's risking his job and his credibility by giving us the info. You're risking NOTHING!

Step out of your little open source, freedom of information world, and meet the real world - ProASM is not some faceless avatar from across the world for you to slag. He's a real person with a real job taking a real risk. And whether or not its fair or legal or whatever, if his company doesn't want modem commands or such information released, then he has to play by their rules and ensure that he doesn't help that happen.

What you've done is take a program he's written with the intention of helping people, and thrown it back in his face.
YOU'VE MADE HIM COMPLICIT IN THIS BY PUSHING YOUR ISSUES, AND THE MORE YOU PUSH IT THE MORE YOU SCREW HIM.

If this forum did not have people like ProASM involved, then posting the info that you did would have been fine, because no one would be at risk of losing their job.
Get it into your head that in this forum, posting like you have could lose ProASM his postion. At least you're going to drive him away - and all cos you had to prove how RIGHT you are.

Grow up and realise that the real world is not as black and white as you have made it out to be.

Telkom needs a leash, ICASA needs some guts, and the SA consumer needs to make it happen

TheRoDent

12-03-2004, 09:00 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by lewstherin
Grow up and realise that the real world is not as black and white as you have made it out to be.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

So, you're saying that ProAsm spreading false information about the AT&C1 command (by his own admission) is OK with you? That's the real world mate. If in an official capacity you make false statements to "scare" consumers in a public forum, then by God I'm going to raze my hackles.

Your view is that of the typical South African consumer, and _that_ is what is allowing stifling behaviour to persist in this country.

I'd still like to know how ProAsm will get into trouble due to my/nroets making available already public knowledge on this forum, where the intention is to discuss "Sentech MyWireless". If I've been off-topic, please point it out.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The key is that he actually has some responsibilities to shoulder here - he's risking his job and his credibility by giving us the info. You're risking NOTHING!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes, he does indeed risk his credibility when spreading false information. I'm risking just as much as he is, since on this forum, nobody knows exactly who he is, and he is just as much behind an alias as the rest of us. All we know is he works for Sentech and he's in Durban.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
If this forum did not have people like ProASM involved, then posting the info that you did would have been fine, because no one would be at risk of losing their job.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

So, because he _is_ in this forum, I have to now tread lightly or keep my mouth shut? Dream on. It would destroy the entire point of _having_ this forum. I have done nothing illegal, and the information that has been shared here is nothing more than public knowledge. THAT is the real world

Take Deckert's sharing of the tower listings into account for instance. Deckert asked for something legitimate, got an answer, and shared it. Are we all going to live in fear in this forum and not share any information lest ProAsm be fired because he "may" be implicated?

ProAsm is a nice guy, and he's doing an amazing PR job here, for Sentech. But if the only opinion you're going to be listening to is HIS, then Sentech have just succeeded in a very clever ploy at controlling what is intended to be an open discussion.

Thanks for listening.

lewstherin

12-03-2004, 09:29 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I'm risking just as much as he is, since on this forum, nobody knows exactly who he is, and he is just as much behind an alias as the rest of us. All we know is he works for Sentech and he's in Durban. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Sentech knows about ProASM's posting, they know exactly who he is dewd, so the whole "nobody knows exactly who he is" thing is junk. He does not have the luxury of anonymity as far as his employer goes, so he is risking far more.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">the only opinion you're going to be listening to is HIS<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I work under similar constraints to ProASM as far as CP etc goes, so I understand his position, and I can understand his attempts at stonewalling on the modem commands. His information thus far has been brilliant, and you forced him into trying to cover up the modem issue. I mean who is seriously going to openly discuss things that his employer expressly does not want discussed, in plain view of his employer???

I also do agree with your points about the info being freely available etc, since free information does usually improve the problems. I just don't want that to result in ProASM leaving or losing his job.
You should rather take this issue up with Sentech and IPWireless directly, rather than hurting ProASM's chances in this forum and in his job.

Lets sum up this discussion once and for all:
Rodent is right about the modem command etc.
ProASM attempted to mute the info becos he would take the blame for Rodent's info.
Rodent proceeded to prove his point until ProASM left.

Everyone loses because now we're stuck with Rodent - who knows everything about modems and nothing about whats happening within Sentech.

Telkom needs a leash, ICASA needs some guts, and the SA consumer needs to make it happen

Myrrdin

12-03-2004, 11:28 AM

Here I am going to have to side with TheRodent. Mao Tse Tung once said if you have to shake a man's hand to take his country you better make sure that you shake his hand very well. ProAsm knew the risks when he joined this forum as it seems now to be on behalf of Sentech. The moment he tried to manipulate the people's freedom of choice he was treading on very thin ice. Yes, admittedly we have probably lost a great source of knowledge, but I would rather live in ignorance than have someone regurgitate knowledge to me on a "need to know basis". We are all adults and free thinking people here or the forum would not have existed. The issues about Sentech trying to proclaim ownership of the modem commands rates right up there with Telkom saying they own TCP/IP about three years ago. The reason why our current domain .co.za resides outside of this country. So TheRodent, here is at least someone who agrees with you.

Swonk taht eno ylno eht si nidrrym.

lewstherin

12-03-2004, 12:06 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I would rather live in ignorance than have someone regurgitate knowledge to me on a "need to know basis"<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
You guys are totally killing the messenger here. His information has been nothing short of excellent - to suggest he just regurgitates info is a serious diss...its likening him to a call centre consultant.

Take all these issues up with Sentech, not with ProASM. That way his Sentech managers will know that he is not providing the info, and hopefully he can still continue in the forum.
If he doesn't want to provide information then dont press him, rather let him continue to provide us with the information that he can.
ProASM: I think this topic has proven how far you can go when it comes to releasing info. Probably your best, safest course will be to provide the info that you can, and vehemently and publicly refuse comment on info you cant. Personally I hope that you can continue within the forum, since your optimism, excitement and input has made all the difference when it comes to my perceptions of MyWireless and Sentech.

Telkom needs a leash, ICASA needs some guts, and the SA consumer needs to make it happen

martin

12-03-2004, 12:16 PM

C'mon guys, I honestly don't think anyone is plotting to manipulate the people's freedom of choice. Let's just lay down the facts:

- Sentech is monitoring these forums
- ProAsm is an employee of Sentech
- ProAsm no doubt would like to keep his job there
- ProAsm's help up to date has been helpful and unselfish in nature

I suspect the problem arose because info regarding the modem was published in the 'MySignal.exe' thread and will by many people automatically be associated with ProAsm and indirectly with Sentech.

This places Sentech in a position that they obviously don't want to be in and in turn jeopardises ProAsm career. ProAsm in turn needs to cover his ass as jobs are not particularly easy to come by.

I know most of us value ProAsm's input, so let's just try and be accomodating towards each other. I don't know what the mods opinion on this is, but maybe the solution is as follows: If you feel the need to post info that Sentech may not agree with, perhaps you should post in a thread you created? I'm sure in such a case Sentech cannot point any fingers at ProAsm. Would the moderators please comments on this.

Flame wars can be fun, but they're not particalarly helpful and rarely achieve anything useful.

nroets

12-03-2004, 12:18 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Myrrdin
Mao Tse Tung once said if you have to shake a man's hand to take his country you better make sure that you shake his hand very well. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
 The man's whoose country most of the people on the forum wants to take is the telco monopolies / duopolies. So I think we should all be prepared to shake Sentech's hand very well. The Minister and ICASA are watching, and if they success, they'll continue granting licenses.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Myrrdin
 Here I am going to have to side with TheRodent.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Cut your nose to spoil your face.

Myrrdin

12-03-2004, 12:55 PM

Hi everyone.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> The man's whoose country most of the people on the forum wants to take is the telco monopolies / duopolies. So I think we should all be prepared to shake Sentech's hand very well. The Minister and ICASA are watching, and if they success, they'll continue granting licenses.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

nroets you missed the point. See my other topic "We just can't win" for further details. Our goverment have created Sentech to come and shake your hand and offer you all wonderfull things while they are making you pay for broadband services that should have been available from Telkom (also state owned) at a cheaper rate or true competitors at a cheaper rate. (Sarcastic degenerate remark regarding noses in response to personal attack by nroets removed due to me being rather peeved at the moment of writing).

And as everyone failed to notice, dissing ProAsm, that was not my intention, but only to show that the people who really want to help and are great people in general are manipulated by our goverment at ALL times to restrict and control you more and more at every turn.

The mere fact that ProAsm was not free to release this info already shows to the monopolistic mindset inherent in a "state-owned" utility company. They take what is public domain as was highlighted by TheRoDent and proclaim ownership of it. Mark my words, in 12 months you will have the same problems with Sentech that the forum is currently experiencing with Telkom.

Swonk taht eno ylno eht si nidrrym.

lewstherin

12-03-2004, 01:30 PM

I think its safe to say that the govt is screwing the country when it comes to telecommunications. Its also probably safe to say that this is not going to change soon.
So currently its a case of choosing the lesser of two evils - Sentech undoubtably being the lesser at this point.

I think assuming that Sentech's limits on modem info etc is due to "monopolistic mindset" is sheer speculation. They could simply have an IP agreement with IPWireless or something to that effect, and are hence simply honouring that agreement. Besides, requiring your employees to follow company policy (regardless of what its based on) is not monopolistic - its confidentiality policy.
There are several things my company will not allow me to disclose - despite the fact that the information is freely available, and my company is a software development house in a highly competitive market.

I would like nothing more than to see a freely competitive telcoms market in this country...however until it materialises, we've got to make do - and bringing down guys like ProASM, who are showing that all is not lost in state companies, doesnt help.

Telkom needs a leash, ICASA needs some guts, and the SA consumer needs to make it happen

nroets

12-03-2004, 01:59 PM

Telkom is nearly completely privatized. SBC communications and the other private shareholders will not allow the directors to make unnecessary concessions to any state owned company. It's merely busy optimising it's own profit.

One way of doing this is lobbying the Minister and ICASA to restrict, and delay new telecoms licenses. If MyWireless is a disaster, they will be first to point to it and say if SenTech can't do it, then Eskom, Transtel, and any other applicant can't do it.

If MyWireless is a success, and many residents of Alex or Soweto are using it without a hitch, the Minister may well go ahead and issue many more 3G licenses.

TheRoDent

12-03-2004, 03:20 PM

Myrrdin, I agree. I think Nic may have interpreted your post incorrectly.

Martin, you are correct too, in your summation. The fact is though, that certain things "damaging to your modem" were stated in this thread, which are apparently untrue. Also the Copyprotected, and "Intellectual Property" nature of the information was overstated, possibly so that Sentech wouldn't have to deal with users with brains... (Wouldn't it be great if we dealt with support staff with brains?)

That is my beef. Hiding facts, and obfuscating the reality is not the way to gain a community or end-users' trust. It's the worst thing one can possibly do. And that is why I've been so vociferous in promoting the truth behind these statements.

TheRoDent

12-03-2004, 03:26 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
If MyWireless is a success, and many residents of Alex or Soweto are using it without a hitch, the Minister may well go ahead and issue many more 3G licenses.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Why should that be the qualifying factor behind being allowed to deploy new technology? The only reason Sentech was allowed to do the 3G thing, is because of a "loophole" in their Multimedia license.

And they've taken advantage of it. If we had a proper free market, we'd already have another 2 Sentech MyWireless competitors, if they could manage to make a profit in the market.

Sentech might sound like the "god save our bandwidth, finally an alternative" company, but let's face it. They got their license through "inheritance" and the fact that they're still a government owned entity. However hi-tec Sentech may appear, they are _still_ a government parastatal, with a license, and position to abuse. The same way Telkom has, for numerous years.

silversurfer

12-03-2004, 03:30 PM

oh please just grow up dewd. The search for 'truth' as you so gallantly put it... has a cost. A cost that 99% of us DO NOT want, but cos your so 'right', we bare that cost. How many times do we have to say... yay... your right. now drop it. We appreciate proasm input. you have your truth, now go enjoy it elsewhere.

Anyone notice proasm not posting anythign since this spat? Your living up to your nic.

TheRoDent

12-03-2004, 03:38 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by lewstherin
 
I think assuming that Sentech's limits on modem info etc is due to "monopolistic mindset" is sheer speculation. They could simply have an IP agreement with IPWireless or something to that effect, and are hence simply honouring that agreement. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Fact is, that the commandset, is NON-DAMAGING to modems (contrary to what ProAsm stated) and it _is_ publically available.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Besides, requiring your employees to follow company policy (regardless of what its based on) is not monopolistic - its confidentiality policy.
There are several things my company will not allow me to disclose - despite the fact that the information is freely available, and my company is a software development house in a highly competitive market.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

OK, let's take something as simple as opening a TCP/IP socket in Windows. The standard is there, it's open, it's well know. But because your company has got a connect() function call in their software they're going to claim IP on all socket functions?

That's what we're talking about here. The commandset to a modem that's well-documented and ratified by a standards body. How on earth can you believe that claiming IP to that, is useful whatsoever?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
bringing down guys like ProASM, who are showing that all is not lost in state companies, doesnt help.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My intent was never to "bring down ProAsm". My intent was to prove that:

1. He was not communicating the truth to this forum (by his own admission)

2. That anynone should be free to discuss whatever matters they choose, without fear of sensorship, as long as it's lawful.

3. You shouldn't believe everything you read on a forum, until you're capable of making, and arguing about an informed decision by yourself.

ProAsm made all of us believe that sending the single string "AT&C1" to your wireless modem would fry it, and break your modem irreparably.

He made us believe that the command set is under some "protection" and "copyright" clause.

In doing that, he graded me, and a good deal of this forum's population as the average computing 'pleb', not worthy of technical information.

In doing so, he has done exactly what a corporation like Telkom has been able to get away with all these years: Ignoring the educated end-user because they're just a "number".

I don't believe he did any of this with evil intent. Instead I think he was simply protecting his own interests, and also probably did it because he wasn't sure as to the legalities, which I can understand.This clearly illustrates the problem that companies will have when attempting to deal with educated users that can read more than a page of printed text per day. And it's probably the reason why most of them, such as Telkom, and Sentech prefer not to.

But when I get attacked for protecting the general technical interest in this forum, simply because ProAsm is perceived as a "good guy" I will not relinquish.

In the end, if ProAsm decides to leave this forum for good, it might not be such a bad thing. Perhaps we will have more "true" perceptions of Sentech's bad service such as a number of people have experienced, but have been too "nice" to report.

A number of people in these forums have been very dissatisfied with Sentech's service (when it comes to applying), and with coverage facts, and numerous issues. Yet they've all been downplayed because "Sentech can't possibly be as evil as Telkom", and "ProAsm is a nice Sentech guy that helps"

This doesn't change the fact that there are real issues with the service at this point (instability, bad latency, incompetent technical support, etc...)

These are the facts behind Sentech MyWireless at the moment. It's not all sunshine and roses as everyone claims.

TheRoDent

12-03-2004, 03:48 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by silversurfer
 oh please just grow up dewd. The search for 'truth' as you so gallantly put it... has a cost. A cost that 99% of us DO NOT want, but cos your so 'right', we bare that cost. How many times do we have to say... yay... your right. now drop it. We appreciate proasm input. you have your truth, now go enjoy it elsewhere.

Anyone notice proasm not posting anythign since this spat? Your living up to your nic.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I also haven't seen ProAsm making a single good argument to back up any of his previous claims.

I have. Try again. And by the way, my team still owns HzO in Tribes 2 :)
How's that for a "non grown up" statement?

If you want me rid of this forum, then it's going to take a lot more than just insulting me. Perhaps you should lower yourself and start a thread to lobby rpm to ban me, if that will make you happy. Then you'll be just as cool as Rob Mugabe.

Sliver

12-03-2004, 04:38 PM

Well said Rodent, i have also believed a lot of the stuff ProAsm has being saying, and i do believe him to be a very inteligent person, but unfortunately blatently spreading information that he knew was false cause me to question the credibility of his information.

And as for these people slating TheRodent and asking him to grow up, where the hell do you get off thinking you can slate someone that has done nothing but provide a very high level HONEST technical opinion. Most of us here are now MyWireless customers or will soon be, we have the right to know whats going on, we have the right to know what our hardware is capable of.

Who ever sperted out the *** that TheRodent is at no risk must seriously think before they post, is he not bound to a 24 month contract, if he believes he is not getting all he should get from his money is he not entitled to endeavour to get more out of it ? I know that i would like my signal strength to go up, i know i would like to be able to get my pings down and stable, TheRodent is supplying technical information and assistance that may just help me on the road to my goals, ProAsm has done the same with antenna tests and the signal tool, and i am eternally grateful for the effort he has put into the community, but other people are intitled to advance the product in their own way and i would expect anyone trying to help out should get the same kind of recognition.

As for ProAsm losing his anonymity, it was his choice, he chose to let us know he was a sentech employee, he chooses to let information out to us, does he have sentechs permission for this or not ??? I don't know, do you ?

I have no issues with ProAsm, i have an issue with people slating TheRodent with no valid arguement, if ProAsm wants to leave because he feels threatened by someone that has a valid arguement with technical info to back the arguement up in my mind let him go. We can never have enough knowledge on the forum, and the way people get slated just becuase they argue someone elses opinion that everyone thinks is the most knowledgable is SICK, shame on you people. Without sharing knowledge we will all remain blind and the product will never progress !!!!

lewstherin

12-03-2004, 05:11 PM

Fine whatever ppl...obviously truth has no price, and screw anyone that stands to lose their livelihood. Thats a great way to polarise a forum designed to unite [:(]

Telkom needs a leash, ICASA needs some guts, and the SA consumer needs to make it happen

Sliver

12-03-2004, 05:20 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by lewstherin
 Fine whatever ppl...obviously truth has no price, and screw anyone that stands to lose their livelihood. Thats a great way to polarise a forum designed to unite [:(]

Telkom needs a leash, ICASA needs some guts, and the SA consumer needs to make it happen
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Truth should have no price tag, information should be free, and if anyone risks to lose their lively hood they should think twice about getting involved.

Definition of "forum" from dictionary.com :

The public square or marketplace of an ancient Roman city that was the assembly place for judicial activity and public business.

A public meeting place for open discussion.

A medium of open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper or a radio or television program.

A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation.

A court of law; a tribunal.

hArTh

12-03-2004, 07:38 PM

[}:)] <- Has actually met TheRodent and would value his technical opinions way above most other posters on this forum ...

ProAsm

12-03-2004, 08:16 PM

Well I aint going nowhere either [:)]
If my "scare tactic" about damaging the modem annoyed some and was seen as a "blatant lie" well then so be it and for that and to those that it affended - I apologize.
The idea was for people, especially the much younger ones not to fiddle with the modems.
Regarding the commands, during the design of MySignal several people were helping me and we were also quite astonished in the amount of information that was out there regarding the command set.
When nroets made the post I got an anonymous mail "from above" (which I often get) and just incase, I went and made a noise on the forum - something that I will ignore in future.

Just a few things I want to make clear is that although I work for the company I am in no way an official representitive of Sentech and the posts I make on this forum are those of my own doing and often of my own opinion.
In no way am I instructed what to say or what not to say although I will abide by the policies laid out by the company which I think is only fair.

Maybe a MyWireless Technical forum would be a good idea at this stage as there, those that are interested in these fields could all participate and no doubt learn from one another.

TadMadLad

12-03-2004, 08:32 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by hArTh
 [}:)] <- Has actually met TheRodent and would value his technical opinions way above most other posters on this forum ...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Agreed, those of us who knows TheRodent for longer than this forum KNOWS him to be a goodguy, no matter what people say. Its not about who is right and who is wrong for me. Frankly, i could not give a rats ass about people making mistakes.
this has turned into a Rodent vs Proasm thing, not by them , but rather by the rest of us.

Proasm , i have spoken to you on irc, you are a nice person, very decent and polite. Kudos for that, i appreciate people dont have their heads up their asses like some ops in #mywireless.
TheRodent we have all known for God knows how long, if ever anyone had a problem with a technical issue, no matter if rodent have seen such a device before (which is unlikely), he will find a solution to the problem , or a workaround. That is just how i have known him. If you keep information from him, he will find his own, in record time, and create his own from scratch, that is just how he is, he is a "can do" person that doesnt wait to be spoon fed like 99% of the IT community who try to hide their stupidity by arrogance.

I have this warped sense of values i received from my father. Honest above all. ProAsm, you lied. I do not appreciate lies , nor any company who would ask their employees to lie for them. You have given alot of information , granted, but my brain is hardwired this way, i dont know which information I must believe and which ones were fabricated.

You have written the mysignal.exe application. granted, and i assume you implied that sentech gave you permission, if i am incorrect, my oppologies. At the time i saw the application i was amazed and wanted to write my own, that is just my nature. also hardwired that way but I had too little knowledge to start with to spend the time researching the basics, and frankly I had no needs that required me, as i assume you had a need for such an application , and developed it.

As for information sharing, this annoys me. Among vanity, arrogance and lying , stonewalling is my newest hate because of the amount of problems i have by some people who build castles of dedicated knowledge about topics, and refuse to share their only castle of knowledge in order to be unique in a crowd of the clueless(note, i am not directing this at proasm, this is past experiences). I am not targetting you, I am expressing one of my hates in life because dragging information out of someone litterally word by word is among the most annoying things I have done , which makes me not ask question as much and just go hunt down the information myself. Bragging about accomplishments is not the point, but if I had a need as big as rodents to develop something, I would have used the best of my abilities to do exactly the same, and where rodent would read the EULA on a product and follow the rules, I would do it and keep it to myself in order to get what ever i need to do , functional, but not harm anyone else.

The thing is, I have been in the same situation where you ask people nicely, please just do me a favour and put it in a module, library, component for me to call, make it simple so i dont have to do it myself and got absolutely NO response from the people that are able to give you assistance in your mission. The same goes for the Sentech website which gave problems with registration the day i registered the first time. I registered and saw what the site was doing wrong, changed my application and registered to not make the page fall over, mailed the support guys with the error and some reading material to make it more secure, and I get blasted by some ******* on IRC for hacking the sentech site, when all i did was basically send them the error message and some help.

I am annoyed by a few things tonight. Not directed towards anyone personally. ProAsm is still a friendly fellow but I will read posts with a pinch of salt and always wonder , as said before, i am hardwired that way, blame my father. Actually, all sentech guys now cause doubt in me because their company ask them to withold information. Sorry, but being in a parastatle goverment institution i can relate to the attitude, and I HATE THAT.

Now.. over to Rodent, I know your situation, but frankly you are wasting your time. You are seriously wasting your time trying to defend your point, or argue for or against people. Its not about if you are right. I dont think it ever was. It was not about opensource or transparency. The people here have not disclosed their reason for being asked to keep certain things from the public, be it to have the competitive bussiness edge over a competitor or perhaps the fear of discovering flaws they know about. You dont have to explain yourself , not to me and not to anyone on this forum so cheer up, its not personal. Fear of the unknown is what i classify it as. Having you on the side of a competitor is what sentech should fear.

A while back some dude said he crashed 6 networks. openly on the forum. Now why are we all smiling about THAT ? An confessed anarchist gets better treatment than the people on this thread?

my opinion on things like these in general, learn to spot a friend, learn to spot an anarchist, learn to spot an ally(friend) when ever that anarchist pops into your neighborhood , acknowledge your flaws and realize that you dont know everything and the person who you are slagging today, might be the guy you have to ask to save your ass tommorow.

in post comment on all... I am not english, and my way of explaining a point might be slightly flawed in syntax, something that I got annoyed with today because some people are anal about syntax and dont see the whole point wholisticly. They typically get stuck on someone spelling a name wrong, than trying to understand the point people are trying to make, and if this was an adult forum, i would be able to express myself better on my feelings about their attitude. Read what people mean, and try and understand. Play the ball, not the person.

lewstherin

12-03-2004, 08:54 PM

Thumbs up to TadMad - that was probably the best post of this thread. I think you've summarised both sides very well, and I realise I have been "playing the man" in crticising Rodent.

Above all I entered this forum because I want to be involved in making broadband a reality in this country, and this forum houses some of the best qualified people to fight for that dream. My fear was that this thread would result in ProASM losing his job - for a post on a forum!

ProASM your apology is accepted (by me at least [:p]) and the suggestion of a Sentech Technical forum may be the best compromise option - ultimately its up to RPM to decide. I continue to look forward to your posts because they give an insight we cannot find elsewhere into the workings of the Sentech rollout.
Rodent - in the fracas I forgot your mention of writing a Linux driver for the IPWireless modem. That is a worthy effort, and I was blinded by the debate that ensued - I hope you will accept my apologies.

Telkom needs a leash, ICASA needs some guts, and the SA consumer needs to make it happen

gripen

12-03-2004, 09:04 PM

This wont be long - I promise [:D] No need to add to the above..

I just want to know (since all the important people read this thread [:p])

What is in the pipeline as yet, with Sentech MyWireless and also MySignal.exe?

Can someone give us a heads up perhaps on the prepaid rumours? Any expected features in MySignal (see my post in the "Centurion Reception" thread)?

Part of why we like reading ProAsm's posts so much (for example) is the *new* info not on the Sentech site - of which there hasnt been much for a while..

If anyone has any concrete updates - please post. Let's leave this debate above in the past and work together. Who says Rodent and ProAsm cant work together to make better drivers or Linux drivers etc anyway?

TadMadLad

12-03-2004, 09:20 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by ProAsm
 Well I aint going nowhere either [:)]
If my "scare tactic" about damaging the modem annoyed some and was seen as a "blatant lie" well then so be it and for that and to those that it offended - I apologize.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Funny, as much i am wired to hate lying. I respect people more who are willing to apologize. if you need me to say "apology accepted", absolutely, you have it.. but I am not that vain to believe that I am the one who you are asking forgiveness for, I am not important enough for that, but you have my support none the less.

BTW, i saw this only after i clicked on submit... and the idea for you helping Rodent develop the driver and getting it sentech approved is not completely obsurd. Its not only him that require the driver, its the whole linux community. And making the Sentech package all that more appealing to linux users. It all adds up in my pea brain.

Mean_Monster

12-03-2004, 09:20 PM

wonders on which IRC server the #mywireless Channel is [:I]

TadMadLad

12-03-2004, 09:22 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mean_Monster
 wonders on which IRC server the #mywireless Channel is [:I]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

trigun.shadowfire.org at #mywireless
dont know if there is any other, but i am usually on the shadowfire network.

Mean_Monster

12-03-2004, 09:24 PM

Thanks for a speedy reply [:D]

TadMadLad

12-03-2004, 09:25 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mean_Monster
 Thanks for a speedy reply [:D]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
my pleasure, but dont expect the same kind of response on the channel, i think we are opting to be the sister channel of #idlersAnonymous

Sliver

12-03-2004, 09:44 PM

Big up to tad who i hold very dear to my heart, brilliant post and brilliant summary of your beliefs and to a big extent my beliefs too. I've been involved in a gaming community with TML and TheRodent for quite a long time and both are some of the most hard working and dedicated people i have ever met, i don't know ProAsm from a bar of soap but yet i pick up the same dedication from him that i've experienced from the two fore mentioned people.

ProAsm has gone beyond his job as a Sentech employee to premote and enhance the product that many of us have taken to. I think that all of us (including the childish slaters) can get past this and learn from the mistakes that have been made. ProAsm made a mistake, WOW, who hasn't, i bet he has learnt a lot from it. We have all learnt that there's many intelitgent people on this forum (and some not so inteligent people) that can add valuable information into the development and betterment of the product, arguements will happen, and they are not always bad, at least we can walk away from this open mindedly with a better understanding of each other.

To better times ahead !!!!

hArTh

12-03-2004, 10:08 PM

[}:)] <- Forgot to mention he is more than impressed with ProAsm's willingness to share information and helpfull attitude. MyWireless (the company) should not underestimate the power of postive word of mouth referrals and, as such, should support ProAsm's efforts!

Myrrdin

13-03-2004, 08:23 AM

Now kiss and make up. [:D]

ProAsm - I am glad to see that you are still going to post in the forum. I think everyone has said enough about honesty and willingness to apologise so all I'm gonna say is you have my support.

TheRodent - I noticed a post about a gaming network. I am leader of the BHD -CZA- clan. Could you please contact me on myrrdin@telkomsa.net as I would like to get more involved.

Have a great one all.

Swonk taht eno ylno eht si nidrrym.