Did the people of South Africa just lose their power?

[Nanfeishen]

After reading an article in The Nation, a Kenyan Newspaper, i was wondering if we had just lost our power?


Concentrating too much power in one leader is obviously dangerous, but also dangerous is a system where a party cabal can change the national leadership without reference to the people.

One element that we must hold onto is that power emanates from the people, and that must never be taken away from them by a small clutch of MPs or party officials.
http://allafrica.com/stories/200809230275.html

So did we?
Thoughts , opinions

[sox63]

The people of SA did not lose their power. They elected a party and gave it the power. They can "recall", I really like this word now :D, the ANC from power at general elections.

[Road runner]

LOL! The anc will never be recalled.. We are in a one party dominated african state. Where palament is ruled by a bunch of thugs in the anc house called the NEC! :( And the people give them that powa.

[brixton tower]

The people of SA did not lose their power. They elected a party and gave it the power. They can "recall", I really like this word now :D, the ANC from power at general elections.

The last time I heard that a politician was recalled was when Gray Davis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_Davis)lost against Arnold Schwarzenegger.

[nocilah]

i think the ANC is going to struggle getting 2/3 majority in the next election and that is a good thing for everyone and democracy

[marine1]

i think the ANC is going to struggle getting 2/3 majority in the next election and that is a good thing for everyone and democracy
Do you really and truly think that is a possibility?

[bwana]

i think the ANC is going to struggle getting 2/3 majority in the next election and that is a good thing for everyone and democracyUntil there is a viable opposition party I cant see them not.

[BTTB]

i think the ANC is going to struggle getting 2/3 majority in the next election and that is a good thing for everyone and democracy
A 60:40 ratio is preferable. To me the 2/3 majority the ANC holds at present is potentially more damaging than Mbeki's resignation.
And what is stopping the new order making changes before the next election, assuming of course they lose the 2/3 status at the next Election.

Blooming Circus. Where the Boswell Wilkie Circus left off, the ANC took over.
They must get their act together as the way things are looking we were better off with Mbeki at the helm.

Oh yes, and to whoever is going to lead the ANC, please send Ivy into retirement, thank you very much.

[nocilah]

Do you really and truly think that is a possibility?

Yes.

The ANC is so obviously divided. Granted I would not call it a 50/50 split... but i assume atleast a 70/30 split.

70 % to zuma.

That other 30% if joined with another party or form a coalition with another bigger party or parties we will see the beginning of a stronger, unified and capable opposition.

I think the DA will head this opposition due to their strong leadership talent and they have only been growing, albeit slowly.

This is assuming that Mbkei's camp's loyalty to the ANC dwindles which i am pretty sure has over the past few days.

[Debbie]

We need a change in the electoral system, and calls to do so are mounting.

[BTTB]

@Halicon

At this stage of the game such a move could be possible although unlikely.
If this were to happen it would change the course of politics in this country forever, maybe even rub off into neighbouring countries too.

It would be a grand day indeed when Black and White can stand together for a common good.:)

Too early to tell at this stage. More like a pipe dream?

Edit: Break away ANC Party could form an alliance with the UDM without much effort.

[nocilah]

And what is stopping the new order making changes before the next election, assuming of course they lose the 2/3 status at the next Election.

Education and arrogance.

I think the Zuma camp are in for some incredibly surprising events leading up to the elections.

There is a sense from their side that they have won the war when in fact they have won a petty political game.

2010 is something i am sure they do not want to lose and at the same time as dumb as members of the Zuma camp are they do have a basic grasp of maintaining economic reassurance until after 2010.

So I do not forsee any major changes or questionable changes to the constitution prior the elections and with 2/3 majority voted out (if people vote this time) it means any new changes will be difficult to implement for the zuma camp.

Yes I am making assumptions... and I am by no means a political analyst of epic proportions - perhaps i am playing the optimism game.

Either way I have predicted the ANC splitting since Zuma was fired.

[BTTB]

I share your optimism.

[nocilah]

@Halicon

At this stage of the game such a move could be possible although unlikely.
If this were to happen it would change the course of politics in this country forever, maybe even rub off into neighbouring countries too.

It would be a grand day indeed when Black and White can stand together for a common good.:)

Too early to tell at this stage. More like a pipe dream?

Edit: Break away ANC Party could form an alliance with the UDM without much effort.

you have to ask yourself - how many people (and unlikely people) have expressed concern over Zuma. I am talking all walks of life.

I think voter turn out will be better then the last elections and I think this will be the first true election where a true opposition party will be born. I think democracy in this country has just been tested and will be tested further and if we maintain free and fair elections I am confident in saying democracy in this country would have grown up from adolesence into maturity.

[Debbie]

Helen Zille: 'President Mbeki's ousting may prove to be the undoing of the ANC's electoral dominance'

[grayston]

Do you really and truly think that is a possibility?

*I* certainly do, and if I have to come over there and frog-march you to a polling station, I will. Democracy sucks ass as an electoral system, but you won't make it work for you by just sitting on your fat ugly ass and bitching.

There are 21 million registered voters in this country, and 6 million of them didn't vote in the last election. Just THINK what a difference they could have made.

[Buddha]

*I* certainly do, and if I have to come over there and frog-march you to a polling station, I will. Democracy sucks ass as an electoral system, but you won't make it work for you by just sitting on your fat ugly ass and bitching.

There are 21 million registered voters in this country, and 6 million of them didn't vote in the last election. Just THINK what a difference they could have made.

QFT!

[bekdik]

We need a change in the electoral system, and calls to do so are mounting.

Absolutely! The current system is wide open to abuse!

[Tassidar]

I think the ANC will lose dominance.

Firstly, look at the provincial structures. The are in danger of losing three provinces, perhaps more. Currently, I think they are in grave danger of losing Northern Cape (possibly to ID, or an ID/DA alliance); Western Cape (DA); Kwa-Zulu Natal (IFP). For us in Cape Town, that would be great, as provincial and local government could finally work together, without the incompetence of people like Nomaindia Mfeketo standing in our way.

Secondly, I think other political parties may not gain that much absolutely, but may gain relatively. A lot of people disillusioned with the ANC might not vote, while the opposition parties might gather more voters, who were otherwise apathetic. So even if absolute party power remains the same outside of parliament, relative party power inside parliament may diminish for the ANC.

[marine1]

*I* certainly do, and if I have to come over there and frog-march you to a polling station, I will. Democracy sucks ass as an electoral system, but you won't make it work for you by just sitting on your fat ugly ass and bitching.

There are 21 million registered voters in this country, and 6 million of them didn't vote in the last election. Just THINK what a difference they could have made.
Bud, I will be the first in line as always. ;)

[ToxicBunny]

Up until about a year ago.. I was always apathetic about voting, I did it.. but didn't see what difference it made.

This time around I will be getting as many people as I know to vote.. we ALL need to vote, and get the ANC to lose its 2/3rd's majority...

And I think its beyond a certainty that the ANC have at least lost Durban to the IFP.. and what a joyous day it will be to see Monkey-Sutcliffe marched out of his office... I for one will rejoice muchly on that day.

[marine1]

It should be a criminal offence not to vote. If you dont want to vote then spoil your ballot however it is your duty to vote. People have died for us to have that right.

[Debbie]

Add a tag to you sig like mine TB. Push a culture that values the act of voting.

[Debbie]

It should be a criminal offence not to vote. If you dont want to vote then spoil your ballot however it is your duty to vote. People have died for us to have that right.

IIRC, in Australia people get fined for not voting. I remember my australian lecturer told us the fine was about AUS $100.

[sox63]

We need a change in the electoral system, and calls to do so are mounting.

What sort of change?

[marine1]

IIRC, in Australia people get fined for not voting. I remember my australian lecturer told us the fine was about AUS $100.
Correct

[Debbie]

What sort of change?

Not sure sox63, there are various options (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_systems), some better than others, and there are various ways to combine voting systems. Party-based proportional representation is not the best we can do.

[Mephisto_Helix]

Up until about a year ago.. I was always apathetic about voting, I did it.. but didn't see what difference it made.

This time around I will be getting as many people as I know to vote.. we ALL need to vote, and get the ANC to lose its 2/3rd's majority...

And I think its beyond a certainty that the ANC have at least lost Durban to the IFP.. and what a joyous day it will be to see Monkey-Sutcliffe marched out of his office... I for one will rejoice muchly on that day.

I think I'll make an effort to be outside City Hall the day that happens ;):D

[PeterCH]

IIRC, in Australia people get fined for not voting. I remember my australian lecturer told us the fine was about AUS $100.

Stupid idea. You don't get fined in the EU or US.

Spoke to a checkout woman yesterday. She was most adamant she won't be voting next time. She didn't like Mbeki (didn't do enough
and was travelling around the world instead of working here) but she dislikes Zuma even more.

[boramk]

Guys, before elections we have to get the message across to our families, friends and the internet...

DO NOT VOTE THE ANC but the next strongest Party

[BTTB]

I think the ANC will lose dominance.

Firstly, look at the provincial structures. The are in danger of losing three provinces, perhaps more. Currently, I think they are in grave danger of losing Northern Cape (possibly to ID, or an ID/DA alliance); Western Cape (DA); Kwa-Zulu Natal (IFP). For us in Cape Town, that would be great, as provincial and local government could finally work together, without the incompetence of people like Nomaindia Mfeketo standing in our way.

Secondly, I think other political parties may not gain that much absolutely, but may gain relatively. A lot of people disillusioned with the ANC might not vote, while the opposition parties might gather more voters, who were otherwise apathetic. So even if absolute party power remains the same outside of parliament, relative party power inside parliament may diminish for the ANC.
Heard a rumour sometime back and wondered if it was true?
Apparently when Nomaindia Mfeketo was in control of the Cape, Zuma used to pop down regularly to pass out instructions.

Losing a Province to a non ANC Party has some drawbacks as National Government controls the money to these Provinces from the upper level and if money is given to those Provinces then that money is inevitably destined for predetermined projects selected by the ANC.

[Reptilian]

Perhaps the potential of this nation is much much higher, and we are already on rock bottom, we have just been here forever, perhaps the only way is up.

[Morgoth]

lets hope that this mbeki /Xhosa people being worked out of the ANC be a good thing, maybe they might split the ANC into 2 parties, 2 parties with a 40:45 parliamentary ratio sounds better then one with 66% votes imo we lack a strong opposition in this country

[Generator Man]

The problem we are sitting with is ANC internal policies which I experienced myself.

The way up the political ladder is not opened to intelligent people with good leadership skills, rather the more corrupt, stupid and vociferous you are (lets not forget if you can dance/toy-toy well enough) the faster you rise.

Until a party is created and led by a bunch of educated, smart, and forward thinking black people, there is no hope of the ANC not getting an overwhelming majority. Problem is the ones with such credentials are clever enough to rather stay in business than get involved in politics.

[Tassidar]

Heard a rumour sometime back and wondered if it was true?
Apparently when Nomaindia Mfeketo was in control of the Cape, Zuma used to pop down regularly to pass out instructions.

Losing a Province to a non ANC Party has some drawbacks as National Government controls the money to these Provinces from the upper level and if money is given to those Provinces then that money is inevitably destined for predetermined projects selected by the ANC.

I might have started that rumour. I heard it from a former CT employee.:p

[BTTB]

I might have started that rumour. I heard it from a former CT employee.:p
Hi Tassidar,

Thanks for the confirmation. I was wondering if it was you. :)

Cheers,
BTTB.

[Turiko]

A 60:40 ratio is preferable. To me the 2/3 majority the ANC holds at present is potentially more damaging than Mbeki's resignation.
And what is stopping the new order making changes before the next election, assuming of course they lose the 2/3 status at the next Election.

Blooming Circus. Where the Boswell Wilkie Circus left off, the ANC took over.
They must get their act together as the way things are looking we were better off with Mbeki at the helm.

Oh yes, and to whoever is going to lead the ANC, please send Ivy into retirement, thank you very much.
Agreed, very well said