Telkom earnings surge 175 percent [Archive]

Cerberus

07-06-2004, 08:56 AM

http://business.iafrica.com/news/327407.htm

Don't know about you guys but I think this means Telkom is getting way to much and giving us way to little... you can't tell me that they can't optomise their profits for the home user.

"Telecommunications group Telkom on Monday reported an impressive 175 percent jump in headline earnings per share to 864 cents for the year ended March 31, from 314 cents a year ago.

A final dividend of 110 cents per share was declared, making a total of 200 cents for the year.

The I-Net Bridge consensus forecast was for HEPS of 725.9 cents per share and a dividend of 226.4 cents.

In its first full year as a listed company, Telkom's group operating revenue was up 8.8 percent to R40.795-billion, from R37.507-billion, driven by a 23.3 percent increase in mobile revenue. Net profit for the year improved to R4.523-billion from R1.63-billion a year ago, while operating profit increased 39.5 percent to R9.088-billion.

Cellular operator Vodacom, in which Telkom has a 50 percent interest, saw operating revenue rise to R10.352-billion from R8.401-billion a year earlier.

Growth, efficiencies drive strong results — CEO

"The Telkom Group delivered strong results for the year. Our continual focus on driving greater capital and operational efficiencies combined with good growth from both our fixed-line data business and our mobile segment, has allowed us to deliver headline earnings per share growth of 175 percent," said Telkom CEO Sizwe Nxasana.

"In our fixed-line business, we expanded operating margins by aggressively defending revenues and systematic streamlining of our operations, while our mobile business continued to deliver robust growth by winning customers in the local market and in other African countries.

"These achievements underpinned the generation of strong cash flows, allowing the group to repay debt and invest capital in driving growth and supporting ongoing cost savings.

Looking ahead, Nxasana said Telkom would seek to continue optimising its capital structure to support the appropriate allocation of cash to ongoing cost saving initiatives and pursuing new growth opportunities, while returning dividends to shareholders."

Regards
Cerberus

gripen

07-06-2004, 03:36 PM

Well, they are charging everyone a fortune for something they dont even pay for or pay very little for ie. local bandwidth. Imagine if they contributed a few of their billions to implementing low cost connectivity for everyone. But hey, thats our country. Different things are important to the people in power.

They are also trying to pay for their annual car upgrades and keep the shareholders happy. Of course its not good enough for the Malaysian shareholders and now Telkom will rape their customers even more to keep the offshore interest in the country.

How can they charge a significant amount for local bandwidth when they are basically just using their own massive LAN? whats the major cost?

Also, I think they are making a killing with ADSL since they are using almost no bandiwdth comparatively speaking, due to the cap. They are also waayy overcharging for something that it is well known only costs very little to operate. Just have a look at countries like australia.

MaD

07-06-2004, 07:14 PM

Rumour has it Telecom Malaysia is unhappy with SBC's management strategy, and therefore are mulling selling so they can invest overseas again in another comms company which they see has great potential.

If it wasn't for $BC we would have decent bandwidth prices no doubt, TM are going back overseas soon because there's no end in sight to the South African consumer being ripped off and I'm sure as hell they don't want to be a part of that. I mean who'd want to work with these ruddy Americans at Telkom anyway...?

Where others have progress, we have Telkom.
Hellkom website - http://telkomsucks.0catch.com

BTTB

07-06-2004, 07:42 PM

Also they see the writing on the wall IMO. Over and above Telkom's share value basically being based on the rip off prices they have inflicted on the SA Consumer, I think we might see the result of years of abuse when the SA Consumer gets a choice of service provider one day and drops Telkom in droves. This I think is also what the state is worried about seeing that they own 70% of the shares. What a contrast in SA. The state owns 70% of a listed company that apparently have no say over or cant seem to control and is run by a bunch of money hungry yanks and the rest of the staff seem as if they are just waiting for the end of month pay packet. So much for BEE and SA's Economic Development. If this is an example of Privatisation, then the state has failed dismally. They are the only winners in the picture with their 70% share. And we must cough up. Aren't we paying taxes to run this country. Why does the state need Telkom dividends to run SA. Isn't their enough money? I was led to believe that SARS has past its projected targets and has done very well in the last few years with tax collection. One of the few departments that seem efficient. I wonder why?
I'm still glad I never bought Telkom shares. It was the principle of the matter.

<hr noshade size="1">You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.

MaD

07-06-2004, 07:51 PM

Yup... and I wouldn't be surprised *at all* if old IVY has a truckload of Telkom shares.

Where others have progress, we have Telkom.
Hellkom website - http://telkomsucks.0catch.com

Jerrek

08-06-2004, 04:02 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by MaD
 If it wasn't for $BC we would have decent bandwidth prices no doubt
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
No, if it wasn't for SBC then someone else would have bought the shares. You have no one but yourself and your own government to blame. TAKE SOME PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY INSTEAD OF ALWAYS SCREAMING "It is America's fault!"

BTTB

08-06-2004, 07:45 AM

Arg, you again and your f....g personal responsibility again. Eish.
No need to swear you know. We understand your viewpoint. We have our own.

<hr noshade size="1">You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.

antowan

08-06-2004, 07:52 AM

I have to agree, it is not always America's fault. A country is bigger than its people remember. Let me explain. I will always love my country, no matter who governs it. It is safe to say though that there will always be somebody from South Africa who will try to rip others off. But I still love my country!

See?

Telkom will be in trouble if the new second operator comes in. But be warned, they will only be in trouble if the second operator gets enough freedom. If interested parties manage to convince government to handicap the SNO then we are in for a not so nice surprise. I am willing to bet that this will be the case. I do not think the regulator will allow Telkom to be blown out of the water in one go. This will leave us with one operator again. This is the reason I think it has been taking so long in the first place. Telkom will still be protected in some ways.

Personally I think Telkom should have been broken up like the baby Bells in the USA. Make it compete against itself. There are so many things that can go wrong. If no regulations are put in place there will be nothing to prevent the SNO from entering into agreement with Telkom to fix telecom prices.

We are in for a rough ride people! Salvation is all but in sight!

Cheers

He who does not understand the value of war at the right time, cannot comprehend the value of life at any time - Anonymous

BTTB

08-06-2004, 08:36 AM

Morning Antowan[:)]

I take note of your point and confirm what you are saying. We are in for a rough ride, unless some serious thinking is done and proper policies put in place.
If the SNO has to provide its entire infrastructure then it's going to be crippled. Telkom has many decades of head start on it.
I think Jerek should understand, I believe he does. We are merely victims and are expressing our feelings however simple they might seem. He however owns Telkom shares (read something similar on another thread) and is sitting on the other side of the ocean looking in. So he is basically part of the oppression we are feeling. One can also understand that he would want Telkom to be a financial success.
Going back to the original thread. It was stated that a rumour is going around that Telecom Malaysia are considering pulling out and selling their shares. Quote by Mad, " Rumour has it Telecom Malaysia is unhappy with SBC's management strategy"
So if this is anywhere near the truth one wonders what they are unhappy about. They have heard that the SNO is now the states priority and the bubble is going to burst perhaps? They think that SBC is jerking the SA Consumer? Who knows?

Another thing Antowan, we should not condone swearing on this forum.

<hr noshade size="1">You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.

onionpeel

08-06-2004, 09:31 AM

This is the money game:
SBC will hang in there until the last moment, using insider information to sell shares shortly before any major decline in the share price. This is on the assumption that SBC isn't happy with the status quo. At the moment Telkom is making mega bucks (all of us are contributing to that) and you can bet that this profit margin will be maintained or increased (at the public's expense). This is why I am against going for that stupid 4GB account and then having to pay call charges halfway through the month on top of that so that I can have any kind of internet access or perhaps another ADSL account.
The biggest tragedy of this is that Telkom have the monopoly and there are some people who just can't help but feed Telkom more profits than is absolutely necessary. Maybe I, like many others, are one of those. [B)]

BTTB

08-06-2004, 09:51 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">some people who just can't help but feed Telkom more profits than is absolutely necessary. Maybe I, like many others, are one of those.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yes, we are all guilty.

<hr noshade size="1">You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.

quik

08-06-2004, 02:13 PM

I think it's more a case of victimisation than being guilty of anything. We don't really have or have ever had a choice in the matter of SA telecoms, and won't for as long as Telkom has a say in the matter.

So many of us rely on infrastructure in order to survive, I've read somewhere that communication costs make up to 50% of expenses for companies in SA where it accounts for 5% on average in other countries. SHOCKING !!!!

I ask this question once again. How on earth can a company be labled proudly South African when they defy the very definition thereof?

Ask yourself which of these two definitions better suite Telkom:

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Proud: Feeling pleasurable satisfaction over an act, possession, quality, or relationship by which one measures one's stature or self-worth.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Feeling pleasurable about massive headline earnings at the expense of ones clients, trampling relationships through inferior support and communication, and degrading services while inflating costs at the same time, is this quality?

I don't think they live up to even one of these criteria.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Arrogant: Having or displaying a sense of overbearing self-worth or self-importance. Marked by or arising from a feeling or assumption of one's superiority toward others.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

How else could you justify blatantly disregarding the needs of clients, making ludicrous excuses and outrightly stealing from the very country that you are supposed to be proud to be a part of?

Why are people so blind to the obvious benefits of mutual gain relationships, it's been proved over and over again.

TRUTH does not lie in opinions and perception... but in that which conforms to fact and reality

BTTB

08-06-2004, 02:23 PM

Also one of the PSA's criteria is:
The company must be committed to fair labour and employment practices.

Maybe Telkom isn't exactly throwing staff out the door, so to speak. Well so they say, "Telkom - employer of 32 358 people - is planning to reduce its staff numbers by 7% to 10% annually, the company said on Monday" and "Telkoms profits soars 178% to R4.5bn".

Eeerm choke, cough, splutter. They have this uncanny way of making retrenchments look like internal transfers. At the end of the day people still lose their jobs and that adds to the unemployment figures which I hear are about 40% to 50%. But in the same breath they have extended their earnings by 178%. For a company that isn't struggling financially in SA, to put people off is criminal and PSA should be "shamed" by Telkom's actions.

<hr noshade size="1">You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.

MaD

08-06-2004, 08:26 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Jerrek
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by MaD
 If it wasn't for $BC we would have decent bandwidth prices no doubt
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
No, if it wasn't for SBC then someone else would have bought the shares. You have no one but yourself and your own government to blame. TAKE SOME PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY INSTEAD OF ALWAYS SCREAMING "It is America's fault!"
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Jerrek, moenie n poephol wees nie man ek het gese dis die AMERIKANERS se skuld nie AMERIKA nie. Ek het niks teen Amerikaners nie - net die enes in Telkom wat ons land se telekommunikasie sektor in sy moer in ry. Ek raak nou ook bietjie blerrie moeg van jou persoonlike verantwoordelikheid manewales, druk dit saam met jou blits-vinnige kuber-ruimte toegangs-lyn waar dit hoort. Al het iemand anders die SBC aandele gekoop sou hulle beter na die pragtige land van ons gekyk het want hulle sal tien-teen-een nie geldgierige kapitaliste wees wat die land wou kaal uittrek nie soos jou maatjies besig is om te maak nie.

As jy nie verstaan wat ek nou net geskryf het nie dan moet jy maar 'n lang stap van 'n kort plank af vat, ou oorsese Trolletjie. Jy het n nare humeur, en moenie weer vloek nie, dit wys net hoe ongeleerd jy rerig is.

Where others have progress, we have Telkom.
Hellkom website - http://telkomsucks.0catch.com

mbs

08-06-2004, 09:44 PM

Ag, vertolk maar vir die poephol - glo nie daar's mense in Kanada wat die vertolkingswerk vir hom sal kan doen nie - jou punt is geldelik en kan maar duidelik in Engels uitgesit word vir hom... ROFL [:D][:D][:D][:D]

BTTB

08-06-2004, 09:51 PM

Ya nee wat ou boet.

<hr noshade size="1">You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.

MaD

08-06-2004, 10:15 PM

OK, a direct translation...

Jerrek, don't a farthole be man I did say it not the AMERICANS's fault be not AMERICA. I have nothing against Americans - just the ones in Telkom which our land's communications sector in it's bolt rides. I touch now also slightly bloody tired of your personal resposibility man whales, push it together with your light-fast cyber-space entrance-line where it belongs. All have someone others the SBC onparts purchased would've them better after the pretty land of us looked have because they will ten-to-one not moneygreedy capitalists be what the land wanted bare outpull not like your mates busy are around to make not.

If you not farstand what I now only written have'nt then must you although a long walk from a short plank off take, old overseas Trollie. You have a nauseous temper, and mustn't again swear not it shows merely how unedookated you really is.

BTW please check your CAPS LOCK KEY - I THINK IT MIGHT GET STUCK SOMETIMES

Where others have progress, we have Telkom.
Hellkom website - http://telkomsucks.0catch.com

mbs

08-06-2004, 11:14 PM

ROFL [:D][:D][:D][:D] - This made my day/night!!! I nominate MaD for Chief Translator and General Factotum to NEPAD...

Jerrek

09-06-2004, 02:29 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by MaD
Jerrek, moenie n poephol wees nie man ek het gese dis die AMERIKANERS se skuld nie AMERIKA nie.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Verduidelik vir my hoe dit my, my broer, en 'n plaas boer in Arkansas se skuld is.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Ek het niks teen Amerikaners nie - net die enes in Telkom wat ons land se telekommunikasie sektor in sy moer in ry. Ek raak nou ook bietjie blerrie moeg van jou persoonlike verantwoordelikheid manewales,<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Ek kaan so dink. "The truth hurts."

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> druk dit saam met jou blits-vinnige kuber-ruimte toegangs-lyn waar dit hoort. Al het iemand anders die SBC aandele gekoop sou hulle beter na die pragtige land van ons gekyk het want hulle sal tien-teen-een nie geldgierige kapitaliste wees wat die land wou kaal uittrek nie soos jou maatjies besig is om te maak nie.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Jy kan dit nie s^e verseker nie. Jy haat net SBC omdat hulle in jou land geld ingesit het.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
As jy nie verstaan wat ek nou net geskryf het nie dan moet jy maar 'n lang stap van 'n kort plank af vat, ou oorsese Trolletjie.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Ek verstaan wat jy skryf. Ek is nie dom nie.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">en moenie weer vloek nie, dit wys net hoe ongeleerd jy rerig is.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Kom ons kyk:

"moenie n poephol wees nie man"

"telekommunikasie sektor in sy moer in ry"

Now moderators, why the **** is he allowed to swear with no moderation, but as soon as I do so I'm moderated?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">glo nie daar's mense in Kanada wat die vertolkingswerk vir hom sal kan doen nie <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Daar is heelwat mense, selfs 'n paar by my universiteid. Ek het nie iemand nodig om vir my te vertolk nie.

lewstherin

09-06-2004, 08:53 AM

Lol!! Go Jerrek [:p]

Telkom needs a leash, ICASA needs some guts, and the SA consumer needs to make it happen

rpm

09-06-2004, 08:57 AM

This is simply too entertaining to moderate… [:D]

RPM
rpm@myadsl.co.za

MaD

09-06-2004, 09:42 AM

[:)] Jerrek, the guy who you sat with at your 'universiteid' needs to brush up on his Afr, maybe come back to SA for a little while.. it's a shame Google doesn't offer Afrikaans translation eh... heheheh.. but doubt they woul've had poephol although that would've been quite something!

'moer' isn't a swearword Pick n Pay had an ad for biltong running where at the end they say '...dis moer lekker."

If you or the farmers need any Eng-Afr translations, i'd be happy to help out. They will be direct translations however I suck at suiwer afrikaans unless I've had some Klippies.

Nou ja pelle, geniet julle dag verder en sien julle later, ek gaan nou Telkom head office toe om die sousboontjies uit n paar SBC laaities te slaat! (Jerrek i'm sorry your friends can translate that for you when they get out of class [:)])

Where others have progress, we have Telkom.
Hellkom website - http://telkomsucks.0catch.com

Jerrek

09-06-2004, 02:56 PM

He didn't translate it, I did. What are you talking about?

MaD

10-06-2004, 12:05 AM

I've had a few beers, could you clarify your question please

EDIT: I just want to clarify - when I say it's the Americans' fault I mean the SBC Americans here in Telkom, not any other Americans (obviously!)

Where others have progress, we have Telkom.
Hellkom website - http://telkomsucks.0catch.com

quik

10-06-2004, 12:47 AM

Mad.. Thanks for some great laughs, after a long couple of days I really enjoyed that [;)][:D][:D]

Excuse me Jerek but this statement is horribly wrong

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Jy kan dit nie s^e verseker nie. Jy haat net SBC omdat hulle in jou land geld ingesit het.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No possitive change has occured since SBC became involved in Telkom, it has in fact deteriorated. I don't think they have any corporate conscience and would be surprised if they knew what the statement 'business ethics' implies. I can asure you they've managed to take far more than they have contributed. I think the way in which developed countries take advantage of developing countries is sick. They ARE indirectly responsible for increasing poverty, now matter how you look at it.

TRUTH does not lie in opinions and perception... but in that which conforms to fact and reality

MaD

10-06-2004, 07:20 PM

Seems they keep lowering their prices in the States and now they're rolling out Wifi to all McDonalds......... I'm pretty sure they're using the South African profit for expanding their services in the States for free... quite a good idea, just a pity it's costing us an economy.

Where others have progress, we have Telkom.
Hellkom website - http://telkomsucks.0catch.com

Jerrek

11-06-2004, 03:32 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by quik
No possitive change has occured since SBC became involved in Telkom, it has in fact deteriorated. I don't think they have any corporate conscience and would be surprised if they knew what the statement 'business ethics' implies. I can asure you they've managed to take far more than they have contributed.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
How is that bad? That is called INVESTING. I am doing the same thing every day.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I think the way in which developed countries take advantage of developing countries is sick. They ARE indirectly responsible for increasing poverty, now matter how you look at it.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Now it is our fault again? The fact that YOUR OWN GOVERNMENT sold it has absolutely no bearing on the subject at hand, of course.

Jerrek

11-06-2004, 03:34 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by MaD
 Seems they keep lowering their prices in the States and now they're rolling out Wifi to all McDonalds......... I'm pretty sure they're using the South African profit for expanding their services in the States for free... quite a good idea, just a pity it's costing us an economy.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Oh bull ****, I don't believe that unless you have some proof. Telkom's profit is not much compared to SBC's entire budget.

MaD

11-06-2004, 11:41 AM

As you said the truth hurts.. read the news more often, subscribe to tech newsletters etc. then you might know what's going on.

Alas, that temper is quite something. We here in South Africa are much more... relaxed.

Where others have progress, we have Telkom.
Hellkom website - http://telkomsucks.0catch.com

BTTB

11-06-2004, 04:51 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Alas, that temper is quite something. We here in South Africa are much more... relaxed.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

ROFL.

<hr noshade size="1">You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.

quik

15-06-2004, 12:26 AM

Oh so the fact that our government was naive enough to sell out to SBC makes it okay for them to exploit us. My bad. oh and BTW there is a huge difference between investment and exploitation.

TRUTH does not lie in opinions and perception... but in that which conforms to fact and reality

Jerrek

15-06-2004, 07:04 AM

Exploiting implies unethically. I personally see nothing wrong with it. Let me put it this way: A year or so ago I bought 200 shares in a company in Canada (RIM) for $18 a share. I sold it a few weeks ago at $145 a share. Was that exploitation?

I see nothing wrong with it. Nothing unethical is happening. Your government sold off part of Telkom legally.

Instead of moaning and bitching about Telkom, why don't you attack your government for not allowing other telecom companies? If they just remove the restrictions do you want to bet how fast SBC would change its tune?

Tharaxis

15-06-2004, 07:47 AM

I don't understand how you can attribute a change in share price as a method of indicating whether exploitation has taken place or not. I would rather analyze the method by which that share price rose, rather than the fact that it rose and you sold off the shares.

If the company you bought the shares in was doing something unethical to raise share price, then the company is unethical, and that's wrong. Whether you sold them at $18 or $145 is irrelevant, it's how they GOT there that's relevant, and in this case SBC is exploiting the South African public, through Telkom, to increase Telkom's share price for a (very likely) large selloff of shares.

BTTB

15-06-2004, 09:11 AM

That is business. Sometimes it does suck especially in our case as the whole population is effected by it. I think in Telkom's case it’s the volume of people that is affected. It’s an essential service that is needed like water and electricity. This is the reason why the reaction is so strong, Jerek. It basically comes down to the nitty gritty of things as peoples lives are being controlled by a board of directors and this is wrong IMO.
AS far as SA is concerned, all people in business and IT are concerned about pricing and service. Especially the people in IT would complain the most as it’s their very livelihood. If you touch on a mans living you will get a reaction. It’s as simple as that.
I’m sympathetic to these people. There is also no immediate solution to the dilemma either.

<hr noshade size="1">You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.

lewstherin

15-06-2004, 09:12 AM

Alas, I must side with the Canadian on this one ppl [;)].
Most ppl in this thread seem hellbent on blaming SBC for influencing/directing Telkom's exploitation of SA consumers. My answer is simple: Of course they're trying to make as much cash as possible! They're a private capitalist company - thats what they do!! Every such company in the world wants to maximise profit. Full stop.

However trying to blame SBC for merely carrying out their natural purpose is short-sighted. Granted SBC/Telkom are exceptionally efficient at screwing customers. However there's a reason every country in the world has regulatory bodies in place - to regulate these companies' behavior, and protect consumers. In the USA, this regulatory system works - MaD's posting of SBC being taken to court in order to force them into offering unbundled phone and data services is a case in point.

You see private companies like SBC can have both good and bad aspects. A good aspect is that they are private companies motivated by profit - thus they will try to find the most efficient ways of delivering services. The bad aspect is that they have absolutely no social responsibility - unless the marketing department thinks it may help them make more money [;)]

If one allows such companies to exist in a regulatory and competitive vaccum (like South Africa), then we get the bad aspect - no social concern - and even the good aspect of efficiency is lost, as only those that receive shares of the profit are better off, and the company figures out how to squeeze more profit from less delivery.

This is where regulatory bodies and competition are critical.
Regulatory bodies impose a conscience on these companies - the regulatory body forces social responsibility on companies through rollout objectives, license criteria and other legislative powers that they have. The regulatory body also seeks to protect consumers from explotiation, and offers an avenue for consumer litigation.
As one can see the regulatory body exists to keep a company's "bad" aspects in check. Regulatory bodies thus need strong legislative powers and backing, they need to be independent and impartial - because regulatory bodies exist to correct market failures.

Competition is equally important. One could have a monopoly that is highly regulated - for example imagine if ICASA set all the Telkom tariffs at reasonable levels. However the problem with no competition is that the private company then has no major motivation to innovate or deliver quality products beyond what is regulated - since there's no one for consumers to change to, the company doesn't care.
With the introduction of competition, the former monopoly suddenly has to ensure they satisfy customers - because they know that their competition is trying to lure away customers with better pricing and better products. Competition also forces innovation - because customers will go where the best products are.

One cannot have a competitive market without regulation either. The reason is because in markets that can only support a few large companies (eg. telecom markets), collusion is often a natural capitalist outcome. Cartels mean higher prices and bigger profits for all participating companies. Without regulation to ensure this kind of consumer exploitation cannot happen, the consumer is usually worse off than in a highly regulated monopoly environment - our cell market is a case in point. Prices between the 3 cell companies track each other closely, as do product offerings...collusion is evident.

Anyhow, I hope this puts into perspective who the real culprits are in our context. SBC/Telkom is not the reason we're getting screwed - its simply behaving exactly how any other private company the world over would. Our problem is that we have an absolutely powerless regulatory body and no competition. If ICASA actually was independent of the Ministry of Telecommunications, had legislative clauses that empowered it and had a dedicated mission to preserve consumer welfare, Telkom would not be able to screw us. Similarly if competition had been encouraged and given priority, Telkom would be forced into offering better service and better products.

Telkom needs a leash, ICASA needs some guts, and the SA consumer needs to make it happen

BTTB

15-06-2004, 09:16 AM

Good post Lewistherin.

<hr noshade size="1">You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.

pat22

15-06-2004, 09:32 AM

Are SBC or Telkom supposed to be charities?

These are private companies with shareholders. Telkom are operating in an environment created entirely by this stupid government. Who do you blame? You cannot blame Telkom or SBC or whoever else. Telkoms brief is to their shareholders, and to do everything in their power to convert their investment into more and more money. If Telkom are working outside the parameters of their privatisation legislation to boost profits then the government must act.

The ANC let the leash off and now we are all feeding one hungry dog. Blame Ivy, Mbeki, Erwin. But nobody else.

This is why we pay 7 grand for services which cost 300 bucks elsewhere.

As for ethics, perhaps we should all argue that with our president first. His actions seem to offer the opinion he supports a form of state sponsored murder by chumming up to Bob. And everyone I know are just so happy we are housing Aristide…..

BTTB

15-06-2004, 10:13 AM

Looks like a healthy debate to me.
Commentator...."Strike one to Jerek as Mad is thrown out the ring..... But wait although he is bleeding heavily he is coming back into the ring and he looks mean"...

<hr noshade size="1">You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.

MaD

15-06-2004, 10:26 AM

Scenario:

Your mom is in the hospital. She needs an operation. The doctors tell you it ill cost $130,000. You know just about anywhere else in the world you can have the operation for $3,000, and it's much better. But the doctors are the only ones in the country and you don't have the money to go everseas for the operation. The doctors say the operation is so expensive due to import costs, but you know for a fact that's crap because all other countries have much lower prices. There is a handful of doctors who have shares in the hospital providing service and they won't budge on price. The national medical board has entrusted ONLY these doctors to further medical advancements and offer universal medical access for all at affordable prices, the health of the country's people is in their hands, and only theirs. But you are faced with a $130,000 bill if you go ahead.

Who do you blame? Who you going to be p*ssed off with?? The bloody doctors man, come on ket's use some common sense here.

<hr noshade size="1">
Excerpts from the STRATEGIC SERVICES AGREEMENT of 1997
Telkom and the SEP (Thintana Communications) desire to:

Transform Telkom into an economically successful world-class telecommunications operator, and also desire that Telkom will strive to meet the following strategic objectives in the conduct of its business to the extent such objectives are consistent with such transformation:

- Develop genuine economic empowerment of Disadvantaged Groups (as defined below);

- Satisfy economically viable demand for basic needs in telephony service for all South Africans and increase coverage of priority customers, such as educational and medical facilities, community centres and governmental agencies

- Transform Telkom into a company representative of the demographics of the Republic of South Africa

- Create opportunities for training and skills development in the telecommunications sector within the Republic of South Africa

- Assist economic growth in South Africa by providing a national telecommunications infrastructure which will promote the creation of an "information society"

- Promote the maintenance of employment within the core areas of Telkom, to the extent possible;

- Facilitate the empowerment of Disadvantaged Groups by developing supportive procurement policies, including training programs

- Accomplish all of the foregoing in a commercially reasonable manner within the framework of the operation of a commercial business.

....ja *RIGHT*!!

Where others have progress, we have Telkom.
Hellkom website - http://telkomsucks.0catch.com

mbs

15-06-2004, 11:21 AM

And there you go - MAD's analogy should make it clear where the REAL problem lies. Very simply, $BC/Telkrap have not fulfilled their contractual mandate, are not acting in the best interest of their shareholders, and will be given short shrift eventually when it comes to telco services in RSA. It's not Government/ICASA, though they're not contributing much at the moment to correct the problem - I do expect some real action very shortly, though...

lewstherin

15-06-2004, 12:22 PM

Theres no point in regulations like those posted by MaD unless you have an independant and empowered regulator to enforce the obligation.
Like I said most private companies the world over have no social responsibilities - thats why a good regulatory environment is vital...
Telkom needs a leash, ICASA needs some guts, and the SA consumer needs to make it happen

BTTB

15-06-2004, 01:53 PM

Good post Mad. Are you taking lessons from Podo?

Commentator..."Mad flintches his muscles and drives home a resounding punch into Jerek who stumbles back dazed".... will Jerek recover?

<hr noshade size="1">You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.

MaD

15-06-2004, 02:20 PM

hehehehehe... classic BTTB :)
no lessons but i do have a lot of press releases and investor relations docs about Telkom and their robberies so most of the time I know what i'm talking about when it comes to Telkom
And ja it's true those regulations are pointless - ICASA isn't doing anything about anything. The guys working there get their salary every month so why should they give a damn.

Where others have progress, we have Telkom.
Hellkom website - http://telkomsucks.0catch.com

Jerrek

16-06-2004, 06:21 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> national medical board has entrusted ONLY these doctors to further medical advancements and offer universal medical access for all at affordable prices, the health of the country's people is in their hands, and only theirs. But you are faced with a $130,000 bill if you go ahead.

Who do you blame? Who you going to be p*ssed off with?? The bloody doctors man, come on ket's use some common sense here.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I would be blaming the "medical board," not other companies in other countries that can offer it cheaper to their own people. If an action is compelled or forced by law you it is pointless to get angry at the beneficiary.

It is like shooting the messenger because you don't like the message. Nothing can be gained. No matter how much you direct your anger at the messenger, and no matter how much you torture him, the message given to him cannot be changed. The only way to change the message is to attack the root problem.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">are not acting in the best interest of their shareholders<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Excuse me, but profits souring 175% seems to me they have a very healthy relationship with their shareholders.

I'm willing to say that no regulation is better than this utter bull**** regulation you have right now. Let anyone lay cable and fiber, and let each person do their own number plan. If they're smart, they will eventually make it compatible with each other.

MaD

16-06-2004, 10:48 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Jerrek
 [quote]I'm willing to say that no regulation is better than this utter bull**** regulation you have right now. Let anyone lay cable and fiber, and let each person do their own number plan. If they're smart, they will eventually make it compatible with each other.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Jerrek, for once I agree with you.

Until something like that happens everyone will still be pissed off at Telkom though, that's just how it is...

Where others have progress, we have Telkom.
Hellkom website - http://telkomsucks.0catch.com

BTTB

16-06-2004, 02:56 PM

Commentator....."Jerek still dazed is given a hand up by Mad as he cools off"...what they going to do next?

<hr noshade size="1">You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.

mbs

16-06-2004, 06:17 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
quote:are not acting in the best interest of their shareholders

Excuse me, but profits souring 175% seems to me they have a very healthy relationship with their shareholders.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Sorry, but that's not healthy at all. Even were one to exclude responsible investment approaches from the equation entirely, this is a self-fulfilling disaster, for the simple reason that it raises expectations of continually high returns. The wise investor will recognise the flaw in this, but the dollars flying through the air usually causes investment blindness - the dotcom crash is a perfect example. The point is that exorbitant profits which fly in the face of reality is generally symptomatic of rot from within, which usually results in profiteering, irresponsible financial decisions (e.g. foward cover on the debtors' book), or the appointment of supposed 'consulting experts' at high cost to maintain or boost profits even more. If you want to keep your Telkrap shares, you're welcome to do so, but don't say you weren't warned. Some free investment advice from someone who can sleep with a clear conscience... as LEWSTHERIN says, use it, don't use it...