Hellkom.co.za facing legal action from Telkom

MaD

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As per e-mail:

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Gregg Stirton
CAPE TOWN


Dear Sir


SOUTH AFRICA - Trade mark registration no. 91/5809 TELKOM and others in class 35 in the name of Telkom SA Limited and objection to website
telkomsucks.Ocatch.com



1. We act on behalf of Telkom SA Limited.



2. Our client is the proprietor in South Africa of the well-known
TELKOM and Keypad logo (TELKOM) trade marks in various classes. We
attach as Annexure "A" details of our client's trade mark
registrations. We collectively refer to the above trade marks as the
'TELKOM' trade marks.



3. Our client has spent considerable time, money and effort in the
promotion and establishment of this trade mark, and as a result, the
mark has become known in the relevant trade sectors in South Africa and
internationally. As a result of this extensive use, our client has
acquired a reputation and goodwill in its mark, and therefore also has
common law rights in its TELKOM trade marks, worldwide.



4. Accordingly, our client is also entitled to prevent the use by
another person of its registered trade mark in relation to goods or
services, if the use would be likely to take unfair advantage of, or be
detrimental to, the distinctive character or repute of our client's
registered trade mark. Section 34(1)(c) and Section 35 of the Trade
Marks Act no. 94 of 1993 apply in this regard. Furthermore, our client
is also entitled to protection of its well-known trade mark in terms of
Article 6(1)bis of the Paris Convention.



5. Our client has been made aware of the fact that you are the
subscribing partner of the domain name telkomsucks.Ocatch.com. This
domain name is confusingly similar to our client's well-known TELKOM
trade mark. You are further using various logos, such as HELLKOM,
TELSCUM, MELK-HOM, TELKON, TELSKAM, MONOPOLY-DOTCOM, GELDBOM, DJOUMA, EXPENSIVE on your website that are confusingly similar to our client's TELKOM trade mark.



6. Your unauthorized use of our client's trade mark in this
manner, takes unfair advantage of, and/or is detrimental to the
distinctive character or repute of our client's TELKOM trade mark, and
thus infringes Section 34(1)(c) of the Act. Your actions also amount to
unlawful competition, at common law but are also defamatory in nature.



7. Therefore, your registration of the domain name furthermore
amounts to male fide use of our client's trade mark, and is thus
objectionable. It also constitutes defamation of our client. Our
client is therefore entitled to object to the domain name and the use of
the disparaging logos. Our client is also entitled to apply to the High
Court in the United States for an interdict against you based on the
above.



8. Accordingly we call upon you immediately to:



8.1 cease all use of and disenable the domain name
www.telkomsucks.Ocatch.com or any other name confusingly or
deceptively similar to our client's TELKOM trade mark, as you are no
doubt unilaterally entitled to do so;



8.2 cease all use of the infringing marks mentioned in
paragraph 5 above, or any other marks/logos that
are confusingly similar to our client's TELKOM trade
mark.



8.3 undertake, in writing, never to make any unauthorized use of our
client's TELKOM trade mark, or any confusingly or deceptively similar
trade mark, in any manner or form whatsoever, again in future;



9. We require your response by no later than Friday, 13 August
2004. Should you fail to comply with our demands, we will take our
client's instructions on instituting further action against you, as
well as claiming damages against you in an amount of no less than R5
million.


Yours faithfully
ADAMS & ADAMS



Ms N Harryparsad
obo J F STANDER



PS: Please note that the annexure are voluminous, and will follow
separately.


Tel : + 27 12 481 1707
Fax: +27 12 362 6437
[email protected]
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

<font color="navy"><font size="1"><b>Where others have progress, we have Telkom.</b>
Hellkom website - www.hellkom.co.za</font id="size1"></font id="navy">
 
"... MONOPOLY-DOTCOM...that are confusingly similar to our client's TELKOM trade mark."

ROFL! NO argument there!

So MaD, are you up for the challenge? Please, give'em hell! I'm behind you all the way, as I'm sure everybody here is.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong as I'm not an attorney, but I do have quite a good memory. Since when was Email Post Legitimised as a Legal Method for Attorneys Etc to threaten people?
I stand corrected, but I thought legal threats could only be valid if they were Registered, Faxed and Confirmed, or hand delivered to a person, domicilum citandi et executandi.
What if the internet crashed or you got a virus or your hard drive crashed. How could you print out the email or even know that it existed. You might even be away on holiday. This is nonsense. It isn't safe to send critical legal messages via email, especially ones that threaten the person with R5 million. This is not the way of the legal world. Possibly for sending memos and stuff, it might be fine, but not this sort of threats.

It is possible that this could be a scam and you have been hoaxed. I mean look at the date....<b>Friday, 13 August</b>....eeeeek.

I say move the letter to the trash bin where it belongs. If it turns out to be something to worry about, you have my full support in whatever you decide to do. I'm sure everyone here will back you. And by the time this gets to the press, the whole of South Africa will know about it. Telkom is treading on thin ice. It could blow up in their face. If I was them, I would of kept my mouth shut. Telkom hasn't got a good image. This would just add fuel to the fire.


<b><hr noshade size="1"></b><font size="2"><font color="red"><b>You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.</b></font id="red"></font id="size2">
 
I'm sure mad is working on a response strategy. Whatever he decides ... I damn well expect everyone to back him 100% with press activism, money, all round support and anything else he needs.

This oke is fighting for what WE all want ... when he needs our help we sure as **** better be there to support HIM 100%.



-Information anarchist-
www.sentechhatesfreespeech.org.za
I support:
www.telkom.fokkensuig.co.za
www.poopband.co.za
www.hellkom.co.za
 
Mad, thats a serious threat. Be careful. These fatcats are used 2 throwing their weight around, & let us know if u need help with anything.

Telkom - South Africa's Handbrake to progress.
 
To keep yourself safe, drop the telkomsucks.ocatch domain, they never mentioned anything about hellkom, and can't hold you liable to it.

Arent these the same guys that shut down therodents other sites a few years back, they are trying to scare you <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">undertake, in writing, never to make any unauthorized use of our
client's TELKOM trade mark, or any confusingly or deceptively similar
trade mark, in any manner or form whatsoever, again in future;
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
this is trying to bully you into signing away your freedom of speech before you seek proper legal counsel before friday.
I recommend you remove your logos, and only once you are 100% sure they don't have anything on you, put back the logos, I know nothing about law, but maybe telkomsucks could be trademark infringement, although you making no money out of it.
By dropping the telkomsucks domain and logos, you can feign some compliance, to extend your window to regroup from your side, before signing away your freedom of speech

Although, Telkom is not unique, there are several other possibly independant telecommunications company's called telkom
www.telkom.co.id - (telkom indonesia)
www.telkom.co.ke - (telkom kenya)
to name a few.
but browsing around, it seems you have done your research, I'm basing this on the article http://www.marketingweb.co.za/news/marketing/333892.htm

Good Luck, whatever you do, I am behind you all the way, possibly bring this up with Carte Blanche again, causing a follow up :))
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Good Luck, whatever you do, I am behind you all the way, possibly bring this up with Carte Blanche again, causing a follow up :))<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Carte Blanche will have a follow up and at this stage I'm sure they will interview Mad again. He can tell Carte Blanche how Telkom is bullying him into submission etc.

Telkom has really stooped down low IMO. Proudly South African, my foot.

<b><hr noshade size="1"></b><font size="2"><font color="red"><b>You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.</b></font id="red"></font id="size2">
 
up till now, telkom knew about hellkom, and weren't feeling threatened by it enough to bother.
I actually can't decide whether its good or bad news, either the carte blanche story was good, and hurt telkom somehow, or caused their anylists to think it will hurt telkom in the near future, and they should get rid of you.
Or, YOU JUST PISSED OFF THE BEAST IN A HUGE WAY.
whichever one it was, big UPS, but be safe, R5mil is a lot of beans
*****************edit below**********************
Just noticed your update with the content on hellkom, seems you've done all your homework quite sufficiently, and are a worthy adversary, just think, their first letter is now useless, you've punched a hole worth +R2000 into telkom for the first letter, and they'll probably get billed nicely to replace telkomsucks with hellkom in the 2nd letter you will recieve.
[}:)]KOMRocks.co.za
 
The funny thing about this is that the name and the logo was built using public money when Telkom was still a government parastatal in the true sense of the word.

Now they come and say that they built the name and logo with great time and effort. What we should do is print out 6 x 6 foot posters that we can stick onto legal publicly viewable locations. Little stickers for cars and windows and email the whole country!

We can give Telkom a run for their money in more than one way!

Take up the fight guys in a legal way! We have to keep our side clean. TELKOM SUCKS!!!!

Cheers
Antowan

### What we need in South Africa is cheap 24/7, always on Internet for under R300 a month. ###
 
MaD,

SUE THEM FIRST.

Yes, you heard me. Talk to your legal council today and enquire about the possibilities of filing suit against Telkom first. In most countries with a common law or civil law system, the courts will usually be biased in favour of the person who files first. If it is possible financially and logistically, get your lawyer to file before Friday, that won't be the response Telkom wanted, but it's a response allright. I'm not too sure what you might sue them for, but your lawyer will be able to help you with that. Since you are not making money from Hellkom and since you are not a competitor, they can not claim unfair competition. Your right to free speech is protected under the constitution, and since you are not doing this for money, it is free speech.

Depending on the laws in force, you should at least be able to ask a court to give you an injunction preventing Telkom from further infringing on your right to free speech. I'm not absolutely sure if our legal system allows for "fair use" in copyrights, but since it is based mainly on common law, we should have such a provision. If we do, your lawyer can argue that since you are not making a profit from the use of the logos, and since your are not competing with Telkom, you have the right to use their logos for research or parody. Sue them for that right too.

Just make sure your lawyer stays realistic in terms of what you are suing for. Do not, under any circumstances, attempt to claim damages, in any amount, from Telkom. Since they have not directly done anything unfairly to cost you any amount of money, the courts will see your case as a money grab, and you will probably end up paying Telkom's legal fees. You could try to get them to pay your legal fees though, talk to your lawyer and find out what he or she suggests you do in this regard.

Willie Viljoen
Web Developer

Adaptive Web Development
 
MaD

I wouldn’t worry. These things always arrive in brown envelopes and need your paw print in the received box.

Email is not a legit form of delivery for these things.
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> MaD

I wouldn’t worry. These things always arrive in brown envelopes and need your paw print in the received box.

Email is not a legit form of delivery for these things.
Go to Top of Page<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I echo that.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Since they have not directly done anything unfairly to cost you any amount of money, the courts will see your case as a money grab<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Hehehe. i not so sure the rest of SA would agree with that. Telkom costs us millions everyday. Any reasonable court would view Telkom's position as a "money grabber". For instance, the Competitions Tribunal has ruled that Telkom abused its monopolistic position with the VANS operators.

Mad. You will find heaps of support here. And post every detail of Telkom's abuse on this site and on Hellkom.

<b><hr noshade size="1"></b><font size="2"><font color="red"><b>You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.</b></font id="red"></font id="size2">
 
By publishing the letter here, MaD has acknowledged that he has received the letter.

You basically have two options:

Fight or surrender.

If you fight, Telkom will abuse the legal system with its vast cash reserves no ordinary person has access to. Their lawyers will simply generate enough issues to bancrupt you and then declare in public "a victory for justice" when you don't have anymore resources to fight them

Or you can surrender. Rodent proved that that was a very successfull option.



South Africa needs World Class Broadband at World Competitive Prices.
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> By publishing the letter here, MaD has acknowledged that he has received the letter.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I thought of that. Hmmmm. As I said I'm not a lawyer.

If Mad backs down, he has still the whole dirty saga on record to air to the whole of SA. And this is more valuable than a domain name. Some overseas people could host the logos with a hyperlink back to Hellkom. Just a thought. Lots of Ex Pats who have left SA for many reasons, but some because of Telkom's hold over the IT market.

<b><hr noshade size="1"></b><font size="2"><font color="red"><b>You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.</b></font id="red"></font id="size2">
 
MaD,

I'm sure there are a whole lot of people on this forum that would support your cause both financially or with bodies.

Keep it up, the more press this receives the less likely the government will allow it (they are a significant shareholder after all)
 
MaD,

As an update to my previous post about taking action first. If it isn't financially possible for you to do this personally, you might want to consider contacting the Electronic Frontier Foundation. They are a non profit organization who defend the rights of individuals around the world to speak freely. They have recently helped several web sites defend their right to parody, and I am sure they will be able to assist you with your cause, both with advice and financing for a court case. You can contact with the EFF via their web site at http://www.eff.org/

Willie Viljoen
Web Developer

Adaptive Web Development
 
http://www.mybroadband.co.za/news/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=237

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Telkom has threatened legal action against Helkom owner Gregg Stirton. Telkom’s objection hinges on the misuse of the Telkom trademark and states that Helkom’s misuse of this trademark negatively impacts their reputation, which according to Telkom they have endeavored to uphold nationally and internationally.

They further object to the ‘confusingly similar’ logos such as Hellkom, Telscum, Melk-Hom, Telkon, Telskam etc. with the comment that these logos take unfair advantage of Telkom’s ‘distinctive character’. The actions taken by Helkom are deemed as amounting to unlawful competition and are defamatory in nature.

Telkom are requesting that Stirton respond by Friday, 13 August 2004. He must cease to use logos similar to the Telkom trademark and cease use of the domain name www.telkomsucks.Ocatch.com . Should Stirton not comply with these demands Telkom will take further action and sue for an amount of no less than R5 million.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

The lawyers may be confused by the "confusingly similar" icons, but the rest of us mortals know the difference.

From www.hellkom.co.za
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
R5 million!?! Sizwe, please help me out here, you have any change lying around? By the way, telkomsucks.0catch.com (with a zero, not an 'O') is the old site - Hellkom.co.za is the new one. Bigger & better. The logo's are classified as parody, even my little pet tree knows that. Also worthy of mention is that I do, in fact, have legal aid. And - *cough* - the old site doesn't exist anymore. Now that's just embarrassing. This reminds me of the schoolyard scene we see in movies all too often: Bully vs. Little Kid, everyone watches. A scuffle ensues. Punches land, hair is pulled. Everyone boo's Bully. Bully shunned from playground and becomes underdog. A simple chain of events, and as they say, history always repeats itself.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I thought it might be a good idea to point out to the lawyer from the illustrious firm of Adams & Adams, Mr J F Stander, and the Telkom Media relations officer, that the "good name" of Telkom wasn't as good as he liked to think.

Perhaps other readers would like to tell "Jan" just what they think about the lawsuit.

I open the bidding as follows:
&gt;&gt;&gt;
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 10:01 AM
Subject: Telkom

Dear Mr J F Stander

Your email to Gregg Stirton regarding Telkom's "good name" refers.

I refer you to the following web site link, to see what kind of "good name"
your client really has.

www.hellopeter.com

In particular, all the customer complaints listed in page after page in the
section "Companies that Don't Care"

http://www.hellopeter.com/cwd.asp

and if you click on the "TELKOM" link you'll see how happy your cleint's
customers really are.

http://www.hellopeter.com/search.asp?searchby=1000&location=&city=&Country=0&supplier=TELJOY&keyword=&industry=non&alias=

Of course, your client is too boring to realise just how ironic it is when
you phone 10210 and get asked "How can I provide you with excellent service
today" only to get the same old same old.

And since you are clearly unable to distinguish between robust criticism,
parody and trademark violations, (shame, I always thought Adams & Adams were
experts in the field, but now you prove otherwise), are you going to sue me
too?

Please do. The publicity will be worth it ;) I the cartoon alone is worth
around R4 billion or so. Just think of the legal fees you could run up! The
possibilities are endless.

Are you going to sue Carte Blanche as well? Why not?

Yours sincerely

Donn Edwards
083-310-4966

http://privacy.4mg.com/#TELKOM


&lt;&lt;&lt;

Anyone else wish to mail him too? I have checked: his name and phone number is accurate according to the Adams & Adams web site. We don't know if the mail was forged, though.

I wonder whether the reason why they are suing in connection with the .com site is so that they can do it in the US and get more money?
 
I find this line interesting:

"Our client is also entitled to apply to the High Court in the United States for an interdict against you based on the above."

Is that because it is a .com address?
 
I've got a list of approximately 700 email newsletters I can subscribe Jan too [}:)]
 
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