100's of doctors fired for striking

http://www.thetimes.co.za/News/Article.aspx?id=986832

Seems the Doctors' strike in the public healthcare system is getting interesting... It seems like another ANC government failure is on the cards and this time its our Dept of Health's turn(again) to step up to the plate and screw our country.

Some background info:

When Barbara Hogan became Minister of Health she went about developing an Occupation specific dispensation plan which would increase healthcare workers salaries. This plan/salary increase was supposed to be implemented for Doctors back in July 2008.

Here's where it gets interesting; the nurses' OSD was implemented before July and they somehow 'messed' it up by paying the nurses too much due to 'mistakes' in the OSD plan. They asked the nurses to pay back the extra money and decided to postpone the implementation of the Doctors' OSD until the plan had been fixed, under the assurance that when it was finally implemented the doctors would receive the OSD remuneration retroactively from the July 2008 date.

The 'discussion' kept going and the implementation was continually delayed. Some doctors saw the elections as a way to gain the attention of the ANC government, they went on an unsanctioned strike as they thought the ANC would finally rectify their grievances in order to get votes.

The strike started among a few public hospitals and has now spread to quite a large number of hospitals in many of the provinces. The Dept of Health told the Doctors that they would convene an 'urgent' meeting to negotiate the final touches to the OSD on Friday the 24. They also went around threatening the striking doctors and using the media to make the Doctors look like the who were at fault, when the doctors were the ones who had been let down by the DoH.

According to one of the representatives at the meeting which took place yesterday, the only thing they discussed was altering the implementation date from July 2008 to July 2009. This would effectively mean that the Doctors would not be getting the remuneration retroactively which they had been promised...

In my opinion this whole thing smells fishy. I reckon the DoH doesn't actually have the money to implement the OSD due to budgetary screwups/corruption etc.

Now they have fired around 500 doctors in a public health care system which has an incredible shortage of medical practitioners...Hogan has said she will get army doctors to fill in but I'm not sure whether she has done that yet.

2 patients have died due to the doctors being on strike and many other doctors are about to join the strike.

I feel for the Doctors... but why the hell didn't they strike when Manto had that stolen liver implanted in her

I have a better solution.. don't strike.. we need you doctors... just refuse to operate on any ANC politicians & their immediate families
Therefore... fortunately.. the wrong people don't die... though its all unfortunate

Sorry, but the doctors are at dault. They may not strike, morally or legally.

I'm sure the condition they work in are terrible, and their salaries are crap, and I agree that they should try to change that. But by striking they're only hurting the people who need them.

I heard that the doctors at the Red Cross Children's hospital were wearing black instead of white, to draw attention to their problems - that's a much better way to publicity and sympathy.

What ever happened to their oath?

Paulr said:

What ever happened to their oath?

Click to expand...

There oath is only in effect when they are on the clock.

CathJ said:

Sorry, but the doctors are at fault. They may not strike, morally or legally.

I'm sure the condition they work in are terrible, and their salaries are crap, and I agree that they should try to change that. But by striking they're only hurting the people who need them.

I heard that the doctors at the Red Cross Children's hospital were wearing black instead of white, to draw attention to their problems - that's a much better way to publicity and sympathy.

Click to expand...

Agreed :/

I'm sure the doctors take their oath very seriously. They would not have taken the decision to strike lightly. Think about it.

ANC = FAIL

Don't blame the doctors. It is the lying ANC government who put those peoples lives at risk. But then we knew they did not care much about the lives of the masses what with their while AIDS policy.

My wife is a physician (specialist in internal medicine) and have been working in the public health care system since day one. Their salaries are not good in relation to the amount of work and responsibilty they have (my opinion). Our family sacrifices time with wife and mother all the time, but the system keeps on showing us the middle finger. Just taking some leave is a serious mission and forget about taking 3 weeks so you can rest. Her friends in private earn her yearly salary in about 1.5 - 2 months max depending on the size of their practice!

Those who are striking are doing it because their seems no other way to get something done. The statements that people are dying because they are striking I would rake with a grain of salt. People die, even with doctors present, so you can't just attribute a death to the strike. Sometimes people die while laying in the corridor while waiting to be seen, because there is simply not enough staff!

Regarding the strike, I would hope that the doctors would keep emergency services running. I would like to believe that none of them want any patients to die from their actions, but I'm not sure of the actual situation at the affected hospitals.

What the strike has done is to force the DOH to take action. It is sad that it has come to this, but believe me it's been a long time coming. The strike is not just to get more money, but also to improve conditions. Without more money in the system, it will continually degrade. If you don't pay the doctors a half decent salary, they will leave for greener pastures as has been happening. This leads to more pressure on those who stay and they then also end up leaving...

CathJ said:

Sorry, but the doctors are at dault. They may not strike, morally or legally.

I'm sure the condition they work in are terrible, and their salaries are crap, and I agree that they should try to change that. But by striking they're only hurting the people who need them.

I heard that the doctors at the Red Cross Children's hospital were wearing black instead of white, to draw attention to their problems - that's a much better way to publicity and sympathy.

Click to expand...

I don't agree. This is the only avenue left open to them.

The ANC government is big on promises but epic failures at delivery. The last delay was most probably due to the elections which caused a paralysis in all spheres of government due to the cronies lobbying for position in the new dispensation and simply not giving a sh1te about the people on ground level doing the real work. This happens when you put 'comrades' in charge and not people that can do the job.

I dont blame doctors for immigrating

Paulr said:

What ever happened to their oath?

Click to expand...

As far as i can see the hipocritical oath is not taken seriously anymore.

If one death can be proven to be because of the lack of care as a direct result of the strike I hope that the doctors are prosecuted to the full extent of the law and that the victim's families are able to sue the perpetrators for everything that they have.

charlbronn said:

My wife is a physician (specialist in internal medicine) and have been working in the public health care system since day one. Their salaries are not good in relation to the amount of work and responsibilty they have (my opinion). Our family sacrifices time with wife and mother all the time, but the system keeps on showing us the middle finger. Just taking some leave is a serious mission and forget about taking 3 weeks so you can rest. Her friends in private earn her yearly salary in about 1.5 - 2 months max depending on the size of their practice!

Edit...

Click to expand...

Why does she not go into private practice then?

our doctors are underpaid by 50-75% compared to other equivalently skilled professionals with the same level of responsiblities / experience.

they are owed over R100,000 *each*, by the government - who have shown quite clearly that they have absolutely *no* intention of doing so. most of it boils down to the nurses and their OSD sucking all the funds that were required for doctors. can i refresh your memory to the absolutely massive nurses strike last year? the only way to get anything done in this bloody country is to strike.

i think it's quite callous of the people here to condemn the doctors, without putting themselves in their shoes. i don't think many of you here have worked a single day in a public hospital in your life, and i'm even more sure that if your employer owed you over R100K (which they have been promising for over a year), you would also be striking.

the unions are not representing the doctors (SAMA & JUDASA) as they are basically government controlled organisations. and i'm a little bit skeptical myself about some of these reported 'death.'

one patient was reported to have been suffering from smallpox. smallpox? wtf? there's no such thing anymore. in the entire history of humanity, smallpox is the only disease which we have been able to *completely* eradicate. don't just listen to what the news tells you, listen to the doctors side as well.

and to Captain Slog - it's Hipocratic Oath, not hippocritical. 2 very different words. i'd advise you to keep quiet on issues pertaining to medical ethics, because you obviously have no experience / understanding.

mac_mac74 said:

I dont blame doctors for immigrating

Click to expand...

Sure, who would? But do you blame them for emigrating?

I heard somewhere that some doctors(fully qualified) earn as little as R7k a month and after many many years of experience the salaries are still way below most other professionals with equal experience. This in addition to the fact that they aren't properly reimbursed for overtime work, which is a lot as they are on call most nights.

Take into account that most doctors need a house and probably have or are planning on having a family as they graduate with a degree later than most.

The OSD isn't just about retroactive remuneration and salary increases, its supposed to also deal with the shocking environments they have to work in; lack of staff, equipment, drugs; rest, safety.

I think its fair that they are striking as it is clear no one(government, public) is actually looking out for the public healthcare workers. It is unreasonable to expect such a high degree of self sacrifice and tolerance (to being continually shafted) from any individual.

Yes, people may die due to the strike but people WILL and HAVE also died from the lack of improvements in our public healthcare system over the years.

Blue said:

I heard somewhere that some doctors(fully qualified) earn as little as R7k a month and after many many years of experience the salaries are still way below most other professionals with equal experience. This in addition to the fact that they aren't properly reimbursed for overtime work, which is a lot as they are on call most nights.

Take into account that most doctors need a house and probably have or are planning on having a family as they graduate with a degree later than most.

The OSD isn't just about retroactive remuneration and salary increases, its supposed to also deal with the shocking environments they have to work in; lack of staff, equipment, drugs; rest, safety.

I think its fair that they are striking as it is clear no one(government, public) is actually looking out for the public healthcare workers. It is unreasonable to expect such a high degree of self sacrifice and tolerance (to being continually shafted) from any individual.

Yes, people may die due to the strike but people WILL and HAVE also died from the lack of improvements in our public healthcare system over the years.

Click to expand...

It's a pretty poor excuse. I know many doctors who are greedy and ruthless, taking on more work to keep up with their OVERSEAS colleagues, rather than anything else.

If they didn't want to work long hours then why did they become doctors? It isn't as if this is new.

I am against doctors striking, however, government HAS to get their ducks in a row on this one. Looking at the scales that I was sent via email yesterday, a doctor is being paid the same as a teacher, and being a teacher, I can tell you that that is not a living wage. I have had to do extra work to supplement my salary all my working life.

If you try and explain that to a fat cat politician sitting picking his teeth in the back seat of his Mercedes, he doesn't quite see what the problem is....

Sackboy said:

It's a pretty poor excuse. I know many doctors who are greedy and ruthless, taking on more work to keep up with their OVERSEAS colleagues, rather than anything else.

If they didn't want to work long hours then why did they become doctors? It isn't as if this is new.

Click to expand...

What are you talking about? Do you think some of the doctors working in public hospitals are greedy and ruthless because that doesn't really make sense...They don't get paid according to how many patients they see and the extra time they are forced to put in isn't paid for. I doubt they're even trying to 'keep up' with their overseas colleagues as making ends meat is probably higher up on their list of things to do.

There are long hours which most doctors put in and then there are LONG hours which our public doctors have to put in because there aren't enough doctors in the public hospitals. Likewise, I don't think they chose to study medicine so they could work long hours, they are human beings as well

What is new, as far as the medical profession is concerned, are the really low salaries our doctors are paid and expected to put up with.

Blue said:

What are you talking about? Do you think some of the doctors working in public hospitals are greedy and ruthless because that doesn't really make sense...They don't get paid according to how many patients they see and the extra time they are forced to put in isn't paid for. I doubt they're even trying to 'keep up' with their overseas colleagues as making ends meat is probably higher up on their list of things to do.

There are long hours which most doctors put in and then there are LONG hours which our public doctors have to put in because there aren't enough doctors in the public hospitals. Likewise, I don't think they chose to study medicine so they could work long hours, they are human beings as well

What is new, as far as the medical profession is concerned, are the really low salaries our doctors are paid and expected to put up with.

Click to expand...

You're probably talking about Doctor trainees who aren't qualified to work in the private sector. This is where they cut their teeth for the better life.