Shaun Green wishes an audience...

I spoke with Shaun earlier today re: How they will be doing the port shaping for p2p. He wrote some stuff down. Riiight

Anyway, I suggested he gets some of the forum users in a meeting together and let them bombard him with ideas on how they should go about things, as well as issues they're having with the service at this stage. Wait... I think he might have had the idea of a sit-down meeting. Nevermind.

So, he wants to get together with around 5 people from the forum next week towards the end of the week. If anyone is interested or wants to point out something, be my guest.

Being a part of the CUG for Sentech, we received a lot of flack because we thought we were handling things diplomatically and beneficial to both parties. THIS IS NOT A CUG.

It's informed people from the noticeboard meeting with the operations manager (offsite, not at their offices) to kick around ideas and issues users are experiencing with the service.

Now, an alternate idea is to meet up on IRC in a moderated room and give everyone their chance to speak to Shaun himself, it will be easier to keep logs of everything said. Shaun seems geniune in his actions (unlike Sentech)

If none of the feedback I get from this is positive, we'll revert to the IRC idea.

So. Who would like to be in the meeting with Shaun? What are your views/opinions on said meeting. And what would you like to know?

Not everyone can attend, it will become chaos and Shaun sounded paranoid that someone would actually try to set fire to him... so keep an open mind when replying.

I look forward to hear from you and organize something like this.

Oh, Shaun said "Tell them that the management of WBS officially wishes to sit down with the top 5 forum members/contributers to discuss issues and ideas"

There ya go...

I think no one will attend ?

NOONE - a small but IMHO a very important consideration is that proof-positive of a mutually-beneficial resultant be agreed to beforehand (given the past experiences with Sucktech), and irrespective of the choice of venue or mechanism used. Otherwise, there is nothing that'll stop them from abusing your input for commercial gain, without some recompense coming your way, whether it be in the form of an improved service or not. The point is that this is an open forum not for commercial gain, whereas they're a profit-making institution. My suggestion is that WBS do something like providing connectivity to a home for the disabled at no charge, before you give them any input that improves their commercial offerings. If necessary, this can be paired with a suitable blurb/photograph in the media with your and Shawn's ugly mug, giving each other a hearty slap on the back and handing over the modem to someone from the home - mutual benefit for all... Obviously, the question going through my mind is - why should WBS use the MyADSL forum and membership as a no-charge market research mechanism, or as an expertise resource, to fix their problems?!

Ok then, let me say that I really like the IRC idea - just-in-c we would otherwise end up travelling a perceived CUG road.

I like your idea mbs, what I'd like to see is uncapped 1meg internet for schools (for free)

Obviously the server running @ the school needs to be monitored so it's only used for learning etc.

I'll fly the idea past Shaun

Solly mbs, you snuck a reply in there that I didn't see somehow, darned Burst-i is affecting my vision...

I was thinking about this again (as I hit the submit button just prior), and there's another reason I prefer the IRC chat - we have been trying to get WBS to communicate with us for yonks now, if we go the IRC route, I would like it to be a regular thing - you know - chat with the WBS iBurst Customer Service & Support people, maybe once a month or every 2 weeks - whatever - just get some dialog flowing...

Yeah, but still, no one will attend !

bb_matt said:

Yeah, but still, no one will attend !

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What makes you think they will not attend?

IC - nothing wrong with that: use IRC if it proves to be the best way to maintain dialogue between WBS and its clients. I was focussing on the ultimate intent aspect, however, given the clear dichotomy between MyADSl's objectives and that of WBS, and the potential for abuse, as has happened with Sucktech. So...let beneficiation be directed at a third party, in the form of a worthy cause. NOONE, I like the school idea - go for it!

mbs, totally - I should've expressed that in my last reply, I fully support your idea of OAP home (PC+UTD+webcam to see the grandkids whilst Skype-ing) or Noone's school (+NetNanny/whatever - so no sneaking adult material onto that server ) idea.

native said:

What makes you think they will not attend?

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no one, are you STILL laughing ? ...

Jeez guys we have all been bitching and moaning about not being heard now iburst is offering to meet for a chat and everyone and noone is asking for preconditions. All you need is an agreement that what is said or not said may be freely made available to the community at large. No secret meetings where only the priveleded few know whats happening.

native said:

What makes you think they will not attend?

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er... because if I am there then no one will be attending.

bb_matt... yea, especially when I saw this reply

Daveogg said:

Jeez guys we have all been bitching and moaning about not being heard now iburst is offering to meet for a chat and everyone and noone is asking for preconditions. All you need is an agreement that what is said or not said may be freely made available to the community at large. No secret meetings where only the priveleded few know whats happening.

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I totally agree with this. Firstly WBS are f**kers for not listing and responding to their customers. Now that they are listening and responding, they are f**kers for supposedly "profiting" from it. Seems they just can't win whatever they do.

Well, I'm definately going. Will prepare a little document for myself and Shaun and he can pay for the drinks

You don't get this opperunity alot. And I like being a part of something that could benefit not only me, but others as well.

Programmers are the unsung heros of the band and the baud, and noone is looking for some glory

Gatecrasher said:

I totally agree with this. Firstly WBS are f**kers for not listing and responding to their customers. Now that they are listening and responding, they are f**kers for supposedly "profiting" from it. Seems they just can't win whatever they do.

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lol
I think the irc is a good idea as i said in one of my other posts my connection is mainly for gamming and on the odd occasion kids school projects. They should have a look at the traffic as when our isp started screwing with the ports my game stopped working if this is going to be the deal with iBurst I Am sure as hell going to send this modem back in a few pieces, and have some choice posts to be made. I was assured by an iBurst salesman that MMORPG are not going to be shafted ........ Lets see!!

Transparency is a given, as far as I'm concerned. What is critical and very relevant, however, is the profit-making potential for WBS, in the face of input from forumites who are merely seeking an improved service. They should make a conscious committment to some beneficiation for a worthy cause beforehand, seeing that this forum is a non-profit endeavour. That's clear enough for all to understand, surely?! It's got nothing to do with whether they are willing to talk/listen or not, or whether discussions should be open or closed. NOONE, if he's positive and amenable to the beneficiation condition, I'll even pay for a round of drinks...

noone said:

Well, I'm definately going. Will prepare a little document for myself and Shaun and he can pay for the drinks

You don't get this opperunity alot. And I like being a part of something that could benefit not only me, but others as well.

Click to expand...

I really think a meeting like this will benefit everyone. A regular feedback IRC could be just one of the ideas coming out of it. But first get around the table and talk.

Noone is going. So who else is going? IC? Pan? Where are the volunteers?

IBurst Audience

Hooray - I am very glad to hear that IBurst is involving the forum in their way forward.

With regards to the actual forum I'd like to suggest a few things:

1. As per MBS a mutually-beneficial resultant is a very good idea (schools are very nice - provided the correct procedures and guards are in place) - though we shouldn't go to these meetings expecting that IBurst is going to profit from our thoughts - after all they're just opinions on port shaping methods as I understand No One's posts.

2. IRC is very nice as a regular discussion tool - but the problem is if there are too many representatives from this forum present it would be really difficult for the IBurst discussion group to meet any type of consensus. Perhaps an initial meeting in person (this is could to get to meet people and form opinions) with follow up meetings via IRC or whatever.

3. Secondly the members of this forum elected to discuss on our behalf or provide our opinions must be quite carefully chosen - and not necessarily specifically IBurst users - Port Shaping is a general topic and all internet users have some experience of it - though obviously as IBurst users we are the most interested Other reasons for being careful picking members is that we need professionals in their own right - people who at a meeting can gather respect when they speak and have experience with corporate meetings - from my own experience the most irritating thing in a proper meeting is somebody who gets cross because he's not getting his own way. We also need the most knowledgable people - again most of us have experience in the it industry but there's a big difference between a developer and technical manager...

4. I'd suggest IBurst detail the goals of the meeting very carefully in a agenda in advance and distribute it at the forum - appointed members of the forum can then review the goals (i.e. are we going to be discussing capping, shaping, problems, support etc..) and then poll the other members of the forum to gather opinions - and take a moderated view point of the forum forward to the meeting.

5. Again if the meeting is to be a "CUG" then why not raise your own concerns and ask that IBurst put them on the Agenda.

6. A suggestion to Shaun Green is that (correct me if I am wrong and I will apologize) he is a non technical person (a good manager apparently with technical skills and knowledge) but more a manager then a technical person - he should thus not attend a technical user group meeting alone but rather attend with a techie or two as a bodyguard - they can provide ideas on what is possible and what isn't from their point of view (they can also bring fire extinguishers ).

7. Don't expect miracles from IBurst - they're definitely trying and I think this is a step in the right direction - but they're still a company trying to make money - small steps in the right direction is a definite improvement over helkom and sucktech.

8. It might be interesting to see who user IBurst for what before going to a meeting like this? Are there a lot of online gamers? People who use it for browsing only? Prolific downloaders? etc.. Perhaps a poll?

9. Obviously we're going to vote No One and IC in for the meetings (Correction: No One is already going) as they're the most prolific postings and even if you count a fifth of No One's postings as useful - its still a lot more then most of us. Who else? My personal opinion is it should be people with experience of other technologies such as ASDL and MyWireless.

Apologies for the essay

From my experience as a member of the CUG (*shudder*), I urge everyone to stay as open as possible.
The IRC idea sounds best, because things are logged - ie. minuted - immediately, no having to listen and type out what is said by recorded voices. If you are going to limit the numbers in the IRC, you can still post the full chat immediately afterwards.

IRC is used for many such meetings (meet your favorite Survivor star, actor etc).

What may be a cool twist on the idea is for maybe 5 "elected" members (poll anyone ) to meet in person with Shaun, and then for everyone to log into the IRC at that point. Then have the IRC meeting for 30-60 mins, and aftrwards the 5 user reps can discuss further with Shaun?

Anyhow, open and transparent is where its at...