LoneGunman
Expert Member
I saw the 'Shaun Green requests an audience' thread - and realised I need to explain some stuff at all of you...
As we've been here before, with Sentech -
learn how to play chess and think strategically and ten steps ahead - and ask yourself:
1) How does this benefit ALL customers?
Answer: it doesn't.
2) What strategic benefit does it give WBS, to determine, isolate and reveal to them the users who are the most vocal and who are considered 'representative' of the mybroadband forumites?
Answer: it gives them a LOT of information, as well as allowing them to behave like Sentech and cut the most vocal 'from the herd' and cause divisions in forumites - which at present do not exist.
3) But WBS are saying they want to 'improve the service' and other such positive statements.
Answer: They're not idiots who can't tell what kind of service they're provide on a technical level, for their customers. They are quite aware of their technical problems. So any apparent urge from them to meet in the real world with forumites, must fulfil a hidden strategy of theirs.
If WBS have things they want to say - then they should avoid trying to pretend they 'want to meet with a select few' - and simply SAY whatever they want to say.
By doing this, they're observing the online ebb and flow of forum politics, as well as targeting in advance, the weak points (just as Sentech did)
Forumites should avoid the shallow idea of thinking that by WBS 'wanting to meet with them' that they're somehow special, different, or likely to be considered more important by WBS. Sentech exploited this human weakness, very effectively - as I warned the instant the 'CUG' idea began to to form. The CUG knew too little about strategy, and consumer activism, to see that any meeting could not benefit the Sentech customers at all..
Our strength lies in our anonymity, and our unwillingness to play the game that WBS want to play.
There is NO logical reason to have any forumites meet with WBS, and then 'report back' to forumites.
By revealing data to a select few, who then act as relays to the rest of us - this automatically elevates those few to a select position, as well as creates a 'pyramid structure of information flow' - with WBS at the top, followed by the pseudo-CUG, and the rest of us scrabbling for scraps below it.
Currently there is WBS, and ALL OF US as a united front. The instant one starts having 'private' meetings, it changes the nature of the united front completely, and gives WBS a strategic advantage in the future.
Meetings with individuals from this forum, makes 'holes' in the anonymous united consumer front which iBurst is facing. It makes weaknesses which iBurst can and WILL exploit..
The only person I'd suggest meet with WBS, is TheRodent - as he strategically can provide NOTHING to WBS, in order to help them divide us.
Don't be fooled into thinking that we are no threat to iBurst. We ARE.
So they've already begun moves to cause a breakdown in the unity which can and will damage them, in the future.
You have to be pretty naive, to believe any attempts by iBurst to be 'pals' at this point. Remember that iBurst and Sentech have had a number of meetings, and I'd imagine that strategies to reduce the potential damage of having a large number of customers in contact with each other, were part of the discussions..
Any variation of 'a group meeting with WBS' will give WBS an advantage and a wedge to divide the current customer unity, which - as they're quite aware - is a serious weapon that can be used against them, the instant they screw up. And they are likely to screw up.
Any meeting needs to be recorded in its entirety - if individuals are not trained to replicated verbatim what is said - then they need to tell WBS that a meeting will take place, provided the meeting can be recorded, and the entire recording be made available online for ALL to hear exactly what was said.
This is another layer of defence, to stop either the chosen few, or WBS - from using the 'he said-she said' nature of a private meeting, from sowing confusion in our ranks.
Again. There is NO reason for WBS to want to meet with representatives from this Forum, that benefits US. All the benefit from a meeting, goes to WBS - who learn (both from the meeting, and observing on this forum)
1. Where the weak points are in forumite politics
2. Who precisely can be offered 'extra' information or 'inside' information, and asked to keep it private - thus driving a wedge between the united front of the forum - and cause division.
3. Who precisely can be 'leaned' on (by being made a 'pal' of WBS) to further fragment the current united front that WBS are scared of.
4. Who is tactically naive, and immature enough, to think that being privy to 'extra' knowledge, is somehow of benefit.
Its one thing to be mature, thoughtful and clever in writing. Its another thing entirely, to approach hard-nosed businessmen in the real-world, on their own territory, and maintain an ability to avoid providing any useful strategic information to them, before during and after a meeting.
You need to understand that our unity, despite what WBS say - is a frightening thing to them - as we have a customer-consumer unity that few other markets have managed to achieve.
Yes they want to 'provide the best service' etc etc - but without the sword of united customer action dangling over their heads, its unlikely that they'll continue to behave in such a motivated way. (Historically, companies hand out whatever lousy service they think they can get away with.)
So this is business. We pay them. They provide the service. Clinical. A business arrangement. So any attempt to 'be our pals' - is not part of business, unless WBS are seeing that down the line, it can benefit THEM.
How? By providing them with useful information about us, in order to DEFUSE this unity amongst their customers.
Just as Sentech did. But Sentech did it after many months.
WBS, are doing it in advance.
I - and you - are paying WBS to provide a service. Not to be our friends.
Any data they might 'need' - can be cut and pasted to them. There's no reason for them to need to meet us - except to determine their own required future strategy in how to divide, exploit and confuse our current unity.
So the sudden desire on their part to 'meet' with forumites, should be shrugged off, and avoided.
It gains us nothing - but provides THEM with a whole range of advantages which would not be to our benefit.
As I said - the only person who'd perhaps NOT benefit THEM in any way, by meeting them, is The Rodent.
1. He has the technical skills and knowledge.
2. He does not have the product (and thus cannot be offered anything)
3. He has experience and maturity in dealing with this kind of company.
4. He doesn't like iBurst.
Tactically, the approach should be to avoid giving WBS ANY advantage in coping with the united front of customers they're currently having to deal with.
The only way to proceed and give them no chance to confuse/divide/exploit this solid wedge of united customers - is:
a) Do not meet with them.
b) The only person/people who SHOULD meet with them, are people who have no connection with this forum, and/or who are NOT customers.
Again, it can't be emphasised enough - that this Forum, and its users - represent a customer unity that is probably unequalled in the local market. Instead of a company signing up its users to some bogus 'club' - and thus controlling them on ITS terms, we represent a genuine collection of totally diverse and mostly anonymous customers, who decide for ourselves what the quality of a service is like, and whether to communicate this positively or negatively to the public via the Media.
This is POWER.
And you don't do ANYTHING to weaken this ability, or allow a company to sniff out ways to weaken this POWER that we have.
But as long as the forumites are not seeing that what we have, and which - in short bursts of activity - was demonstrated at Sentech previously, that we are POWERFUL, then WBS (or any other company) can quietly take this away from us.
So take a step back from the situation, if you're unused to tactics and business strategy - and see how WE are potentially dangerous, to the Company that we are all customers of.
The individuals at WBS may be 'nice people' - but this is irrelevent.
Understand that we currently are able to make or break them, in the long run.
They know this. And they hope we DON'T know this.
So anything that WBS (or indviduals FROM WBS) might appear to be doing, such as wanting to 'put a face to the anonymous emailer' or 'be our pals' - is WBS beginning to realise that we are a solid block of potentially dangerous (to them) customers who can damage their company, if they attempt to behave stupidly (like Sentech did)
Let WBS communicate to all of us, or none of us. I think it is a stupid mistake and bad judgement to even begin to try and work out 'who can represent us' in a meeting with WBS.
There's no need for a meeting.
Any step even contemplating this idea, gives iBurst an advantage.
Also - given the money investment by iBurst - I'm almost certain that iBurst has worked out already, that we present a possibly disruptive influence on its potential profit-gathering - and is therefore beginning to sniff out weak chinks in the united front of this Forum, in order to divide and reduce our power against it.
Any and every step, should be considered against this above framework -
as we now have a lot of power as consumers - we should make NO step stupidly or thoughtlessly, at this point, otherwise, we lose it all..
As we've been here before, with Sentech -
learn how to play chess and think strategically and ten steps ahead - and ask yourself:
1) How does this benefit ALL customers?
Answer: it doesn't.
2) What strategic benefit does it give WBS, to determine, isolate and reveal to them the users who are the most vocal and who are considered 'representative' of the mybroadband forumites?
Answer: it gives them a LOT of information, as well as allowing them to behave like Sentech and cut the most vocal 'from the herd' and cause divisions in forumites - which at present do not exist.
3) But WBS are saying they want to 'improve the service' and other such positive statements.
Answer: They're not idiots who can't tell what kind of service they're provide on a technical level, for their customers. They are quite aware of their technical problems. So any apparent urge from them to meet in the real world with forumites, must fulfil a hidden strategy of theirs.
If WBS have things they want to say - then they should avoid trying to pretend they 'want to meet with a select few' - and simply SAY whatever they want to say.
By doing this, they're observing the online ebb and flow of forum politics, as well as targeting in advance, the weak points (just as Sentech did)
Forumites should avoid the shallow idea of thinking that by WBS 'wanting to meet with them' that they're somehow special, different, or likely to be considered more important by WBS. Sentech exploited this human weakness, very effectively - as I warned the instant the 'CUG' idea began to to form. The CUG knew too little about strategy, and consumer activism, to see that any meeting could not benefit the Sentech customers at all..
Our strength lies in our anonymity, and our unwillingness to play the game that WBS want to play.
There is NO logical reason to have any forumites meet with WBS, and then 'report back' to forumites.
By revealing data to a select few, who then act as relays to the rest of us - this automatically elevates those few to a select position, as well as creates a 'pyramid structure of information flow' - with WBS at the top, followed by the pseudo-CUG, and the rest of us scrabbling for scraps below it.
Currently there is WBS, and ALL OF US as a united front. The instant one starts having 'private' meetings, it changes the nature of the united front completely, and gives WBS a strategic advantage in the future.
Meetings with individuals from this forum, makes 'holes' in the anonymous united consumer front which iBurst is facing. It makes weaknesses which iBurst can and WILL exploit..
The only person I'd suggest meet with WBS, is TheRodent - as he strategically can provide NOTHING to WBS, in order to help them divide us.
Don't be fooled into thinking that we are no threat to iBurst. We ARE.
So they've already begun moves to cause a breakdown in the unity which can and will damage them, in the future.
You have to be pretty naive, to believe any attempts by iBurst to be 'pals' at this point. Remember that iBurst and Sentech have had a number of meetings, and I'd imagine that strategies to reduce the potential damage of having a large number of customers in contact with each other, were part of the discussions..
Any variation of 'a group meeting with WBS' will give WBS an advantage and a wedge to divide the current customer unity, which - as they're quite aware - is a serious weapon that can be used against them, the instant they screw up. And they are likely to screw up.
Any meeting needs to be recorded in its entirety - if individuals are not trained to replicated verbatim what is said - then they need to tell WBS that a meeting will take place, provided the meeting can be recorded, and the entire recording be made available online for ALL to hear exactly what was said.
This is another layer of defence, to stop either the chosen few, or WBS - from using the 'he said-she said' nature of a private meeting, from sowing confusion in our ranks.
Again. There is NO reason for WBS to want to meet with representatives from this Forum, that benefits US. All the benefit from a meeting, goes to WBS - who learn (both from the meeting, and observing on this forum)
1. Where the weak points are in forumite politics
2. Who precisely can be offered 'extra' information or 'inside' information, and asked to keep it private - thus driving a wedge between the united front of the forum - and cause division.
3. Who precisely can be 'leaned' on (by being made a 'pal' of WBS) to further fragment the current united front that WBS are scared of.
4. Who is tactically naive, and immature enough, to think that being privy to 'extra' knowledge, is somehow of benefit.
Its one thing to be mature, thoughtful and clever in writing. Its another thing entirely, to approach hard-nosed businessmen in the real-world, on their own territory, and maintain an ability to avoid providing any useful strategic information to them, before during and after a meeting.
You need to understand that our unity, despite what WBS say - is a frightening thing to them - as we have a customer-consumer unity that few other markets have managed to achieve.
Yes they want to 'provide the best service' etc etc - but without the sword of united customer action dangling over their heads, its unlikely that they'll continue to behave in such a motivated way. (Historically, companies hand out whatever lousy service they think they can get away with.)
So this is business. We pay them. They provide the service. Clinical. A business arrangement. So any attempt to 'be our pals' - is not part of business, unless WBS are seeing that down the line, it can benefit THEM.
How? By providing them with useful information about us, in order to DEFUSE this unity amongst their customers.
Just as Sentech did. But Sentech did it after many months.
WBS, are doing it in advance.
I - and you - are paying WBS to provide a service. Not to be our friends.
Any data they might 'need' - can be cut and pasted to them. There's no reason for them to need to meet us - except to determine their own required future strategy in how to divide, exploit and confuse our current unity.
So the sudden desire on their part to 'meet' with forumites, should be shrugged off, and avoided.
It gains us nothing - but provides THEM with a whole range of advantages which would not be to our benefit.
As I said - the only person who'd perhaps NOT benefit THEM in any way, by meeting them, is The Rodent.
1. He has the technical skills and knowledge.
2. He does not have the product (and thus cannot be offered anything)
3. He has experience and maturity in dealing with this kind of company.
4. He doesn't like iBurst.
Tactically, the approach should be to avoid giving WBS ANY advantage in coping with the united front of customers they're currently having to deal with.
The only way to proceed and give them no chance to confuse/divide/exploit this solid wedge of united customers - is:
a) Do not meet with them.
b) The only person/people who SHOULD meet with them, are people who have no connection with this forum, and/or who are NOT customers.
Again, it can't be emphasised enough - that this Forum, and its users - represent a customer unity that is probably unequalled in the local market. Instead of a company signing up its users to some bogus 'club' - and thus controlling them on ITS terms, we represent a genuine collection of totally diverse and mostly anonymous customers, who decide for ourselves what the quality of a service is like, and whether to communicate this positively or negatively to the public via the Media.
This is POWER.
And you don't do ANYTHING to weaken this ability, or allow a company to sniff out ways to weaken this POWER that we have.
But as long as the forumites are not seeing that what we have, and which - in short bursts of activity - was demonstrated at Sentech previously, that we are POWERFUL, then WBS (or any other company) can quietly take this away from us.
So take a step back from the situation, if you're unused to tactics and business strategy - and see how WE are potentially dangerous, to the Company that we are all customers of.
The individuals at WBS may be 'nice people' - but this is irrelevent.
Understand that we currently are able to make or break them, in the long run.
They know this. And they hope we DON'T know this.
So anything that WBS (or indviduals FROM WBS) might appear to be doing, such as wanting to 'put a face to the anonymous emailer' or 'be our pals' - is WBS beginning to realise that we are a solid block of potentially dangerous (to them) customers who can damage their company, if they attempt to behave stupidly (like Sentech did)
Let WBS communicate to all of us, or none of us. I think it is a stupid mistake and bad judgement to even begin to try and work out 'who can represent us' in a meeting with WBS.
There's no need for a meeting.
Any step even contemplating this idea, gives iBurst an advantage.
Also - given the money investment by iBurst - I'm almost certain that iBurst has worked out already, that we present a possibly disruptive influence on its potential profit-gathering - and is therefore beginning to sniff out weak chinks in the united front of this Forum, in order to divide and reduce our power against it.
Any and every step, should be considered against this above framework -
as we now have a lot of power as consumers - we should make NO step stupidly or thoughtlessly, at this point, otherwise, we lose it all..
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