"Broadband is not yet a reality in S.A." - iBurst

asqus

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Now there's a contentious title, eh?

It is, admittedly, a bit paraphrased, but let me explain it.

On Friday morning I'd had enough of iBurst's incredibly slow speeds, ludicrous latency, crummy excuses and constant disconnections.

So I wrote an email. And I send it to every single person at iBurst I could find an address for, including Sasan, their Technical Director.

Shaun Green got back to me first. Although he's a really friendly, enthusiastic guy, he seems to play the 'I'm suffering along with you guys' card a bit too much, and he repeated the good old 'the firmware upgrade on the towers should make things better' myth. He also promised to get me some money back from accounts, which was nice.

Then Sasan phoned. Sasan seems to occupy a pretty senior position at WBS, and he spoke with a lot more authority than anyone I'd previously dealt with. He also he seemed incredibly sincere and willing to talk. We chatted for about 15 minutes, and he told me some very interesting things. Below, in point form, is what I can remember about the conversation. Please note that I cannot verify any of this information, although most of it does seem at least slightly true.

1: iBurst do not have a set amount of international bandwidth from their provider. They have a bandwidth on demand system, and their current usage oscillates between 20-60MBps, usually closer to 60.


2: They have just over 2500 users now.


3: MWeb, with 250 000 users, apparently uses 250Mbps of international bandwidth.

This means that, if we average the iBurst bandwidth to 50Mbps, each iBurst user is allocated 20Kbps, as opposed to an MWeb user's 1Kbps. Makes sense if you consider that the average MWeb user has a maximum 56kbps connection, ie: 1/20 of the iBurst top speed. I hope I'm not confusing my bits and bytes on the international bandwidth front here....Basically though, it means that iBurst's contention ratio is the same as MWeb's.


4: Sasan said that network saturation is currently at around 50% average, but he feels that average bandwidth usage will go down in the next few months - he used the analogy of 'showing off a fast new car' to support this.

I disagree. Sure, in the USA saturation is at around 2% for the major broadband players, but they have stronger, faster products, and appeal to a much more mainstream market. Most of the 2500 iBurst users are, and will remain, heavy users. I've been using broadband since InfoSat and MegaWan days, and my usage for last month was still almost 20GB. (It's gone down dramatically this month due to the inability to get more than 2K international using iBurst!)


5: Over 75% of their bandwidth is currently used by P2P. Once they implement the cap and new port-shaping, this will obviously no longer be the case. The new port-shaping should be properly implemented by Monday.

At this point I must say that it makes no sense to me why one would need both. If you have a 3GB cap, then so what if you use P2P to fill it up? Obviously a cap is still needed though, because there's a lot of port 80 traffic that people would resort to once p2p slowed down, like newsgroup binaries, or even some port tunnelling type things.


6: Now for the important part. Sasan would love to turn iBurst into a proper broadband service, with guaranteed minimum speeds of around 256Kbps, etc, etc. Unfortunately, the only thing getting in the way of this is the restrictive cost of international bandwidth. He gave me a couple of bandwidth cost figures in confidence, which scared the be***** out of me. Heck, he could've been lying, but I also remember reading similar figures in a couple of places online. He then said that if SA users really want international quality broadband, they have to take the matter up with Telkom.

While this all makes total sense, I'm left feeling slightly uncertain about something. Doesn't UUNET also supply their own international bandwidth? Are their prices similarly restrictive? Doesn't iBurst use UUNET? Or do they have multi-provider redundancy? Is UUNET totally separate from Telkom?

In any case, it seems sort of obvious to me that if there are only a couple of big international bandwidth providers, and if they're charging the earth for every meagre 64k of dedicated line, then the resellers, like iBurst, are going to have to create very tenuously positioned products.

In summary, and in my honest opinion, iBurst is not a broadband product.
There's a reason why you pay several thousand rand a month for a 128K diginet connection yet only R699 for a '1Mbps' wireless connection, and if anyone is really expecting any 'broadband' provider in SA to offer the equivalent of a 1Mbps diginet line for a couple hundred bucks a month, they've been swayed by misleading advertising and the warm fuzzy feeling they got when they were only sharing their provider with 100 other heavy users.

So what do you all think of this? Will UUNET's uncapped ADSL challenge this paradigm? Will we have to wait for a new international provider? Was Sasan speaking a bunch of bollocks? Is my post way too long?

Later.
 
On the UUNET note. UUNET ZA have a dedicated Satellite connection to UUNET USA. No telkom involved. But the cost of sending your international traffic by satellite is very high.

UUNET must therefore use the SAT3 cable... which is managed by Telkom.
Iburst buys from UUNET, UUNET buys from TELKOM. Thats what makes it expensive.
If the Satellite stuff was cheaper, then it would be cheaper for I-burst.... BUT have you seen the latency of satellite connections!? It's nasty.
 
asqus, having spoken with Sean myself on Saturday, I do not believe that port shaping will be coming into play by tomorrow, it seems they don't even know what port shaping they will be using.

However, if what you've said is true, then obviously we need to worry now, because if they take the telkom approach, they'll have all the major ports "unshaped" and "f@ck the rest" attitudes.

Which then makes me believe TheRodent on his stance that they would then be EXACTLY like telkom, only with a bit faster product (hit your cap faster)

Have to wait and see...
 
noone said:
However, if what you've said is true, then obviously we need to worry now, because if they take the telkom approach, they'll have all the major ports "unshaped" and "f@ck the rest" attitudes.

Actually, p2p shaping on Telkom ADSL is non-existant to all intents and purposes.
For bittorrent, I just NAT it through to port 80, setup my torrent client to run on port 80 and providing there's enough seeds, I reach close enough to top speed.

I just downloaded archlinux base (207mb ISO) at an average of 30kb/s - not bad for a DSL384 connection with a top speed of 40kb/s

If there is any port shaping going on by Telkom on ADSL, they are not doing it aggressively.

If iBurst throttle p2p apps like bittorrent, they are not only capping you but also limiting what you can do with the 3gig you've paid for.

It's hard to see the point of a service which offers up to 1mbps, although nobody will EVER see that in reality, slaps on a 3gig cap and then also port shapes.

Makes no sense to me ?
 
Thats exactly what I told Sean yesterday, if they can have effective SPI's in place that will cut down the 75% of p2p traffic, they don't need to implement any cap.

Telkom throttles ANY port it doesn't see as "mainstream", so yes, a workaround for that is to run your p2p traffic on port 80 to get full speeds.

All I am saying is that if a company like WBS can have an effective system in place to throttle ONLY p2p traffic regardless of ports being used, you'll have an "unshaped" service and wouldn't even need a cap.

I reckon they should run trials when in full commercial mode if they have the correct software in place. To see how "detrimental" (sp?) an uncapped connection would be to them, even with their SPI software.
 
asqus said:
...
He then said that if SA users really want international quality broadband, they have to take the matter up with Telkom.
...
I could say a lot about all this, and ramble on for ages, however I don't have the time right now, so I will concentrate on the above!!!

Sasan, you have refused to even return any of my calls (messages left for you) & emails as well, not very professional is it? Perhaps the reason I will not trust what you say, or what you are alleged to have said. Now, the consumer has some power to get government to force Telkomonopoly to relinquish control over SAT3 & SAFE, however that power is completely overshadowed by the lack of interest from Internet Service Providers who cream it either way bcos the consumer pays & Service Providers do make a profit. If Sasan were in fact sincere he would pick up the phone & yap with his industry peers & organise a collective meeting with Thabo or whoever is higher up the ladder than Poison Ivy, the objective being to get government to force or buy out Telkomonopoly control over SAT3 & SAFE.

Nuf said.
 
Who says broadband has to be international traffic only?

This is all very restrictive and iBurst's international bandwidth is going to be very expensive, that's understood.

My view is, that in order to up the standard of broadband in South Africa, local access should be almost free. There's no reason why it has to be expensive. Sure, iBurst can shape/cap international traffic all they want, it's perfectly understandable. BUT LOCAL ACCESS MUST BE ALMOST FREE! How are we supposed to e-nable our businesses, help entrepeneurs, and educate the youth when the cost of local communications is more than international communications?

.za will never get anywhere in the ICT industry if local access doesn't become cheaper. Why implement a 3G cap? Implement it for international traffic, like Telkom does. Shape torrents and all that jazz internationally, yes.

But don't tell me what I can, and cannot do with my IP connectivity when it's just going down the road to my friend's house, or a local gameserver. Telkom, even with their hideous 3G cap effectively gives local internet access away for free. Time to wake up other service providers!
 
But don't tell me what I can, and cannot do with my IP connectivity when it's just going down the road to my friend's house, or a local gameserver. Telkom, even with their hideous 3G cap effectively gives local internet access away for free. Time to wake up other service providers!

It would be interesting to see whether it's Telkom that is preventing iBurst from offering local with no cap, probably by charging exorbitant fees for local as well as international bandwidth.

However, if iBurst had any foresight, surely they could allow users to connect to each other on the iBurst network, start gameservers, irc chat etc. uncapped ?
I'm no network rocket scientist, but a bit of clever accounting and routing on the network could effectively allow for that possibility ?

I honestly don't see iBurst making any drastic measures to allow for faster local after the CAP is up - after all, it just means more money forked out by them and more usage on thier network.

For Telkom, it doesn't really cost them anything to allow unlimited local access, as the bulk of the infrastructure is there's and is in place already.

The bottom line in all of this always boils down to Telkom.
 
TheRoDent said:
Telkom, even with their hideous 3G cap effectively gives local internet access away for free.

But still measures it as part of the cap. To be fair Telkom (and WBS) should differenciate between local and international traffic. Caps, unpleasant as it may seem, are a valid network management tool...but they should be used correctly, so as not to disadvantage consumers. WBS' planned "cap plus shaping and then 64K" is just as ridiculous as Telkom's "shaped 3GB then zip international and full local".

-A

PS: If they're capping, then why shape? I don't get it.
 
expanding on bb_matt's idea...

I'm not certain whether iBursters can communicate directly without going through at least a UUNET router - things are a bit fuzzy the way WBS have things setup now.

If you look at the Ozzie iBurst landscape, PBA has effectively created a wholesale iBurst network, and a bunch of resellers (or ISPs / VAS providers) selling bandwidth & services to customers. As I understand it, the Ozzie iBurst network is fairly large ITO end-users, we don't have that here [yet].

Now, one possibility with a large number of end-users is VoIP amongst iBursters (i.e. the traffic never needs to set packet onto a rival network), if WBS could come up with the right packages (options & reasonable pricing), then WBS would end up with a larger subscriber base - especially if the inter-iBursters traffic didn't count towards any kind of cap.

IMO, marketing & sales people can really kill something by not doing the proper research to identify target market(s), as well as what those target markets actually need/want.

WBS is trying to dictate to the target market, telling us what we will be given in exchange for our money, this is not the way that a customer centric company behaves, and the effects of this belligerent attitude towards consumers can only result in WBS' iBurst failure as a successful profitable enterprise, simply look out the ivory tower to see what has happened to Sentech's MyWireless.
IF WBS had been listening to customers, they would've done a Vodacom 3G & paid attention to the mad ramblings of forumites, quietly analyzed the ideas posted, run them through a feasibility model & then come back & announced a new package. Has WBS done any of that?...NOoooo.
 
hmm, afaik the towers & systems cannot tell between int'l & local traffic, although I am sure WBS could figure something out if they put some effort into things.

However Iburst was designed to be personal broadband, it was never intended for businesses or "heavy" users, it was built from the ground up as a low cost "last mile" solution for regular browsers. In particular those without DSL or Cable coverage.

The system has also been designed overseas where int'l & local traffic are not seen as seperate entities.

I am not defending WBS merely pointing out the sad truth about the iburst technology.
 
Maybe its the marketing thats at fault

Personally I think the biggest issue is that these things are marketed and create high expectations that cannot be delivered too. If you tell a person that this car can do 300kph, and they pay money for it, chances are they are going to find a quiet highway and try it. When it doesnt... you know the rest.

I find iBurst to be a bit slow at times, other times fast. Really i think the nature of the internet makes it almost impossible to predict exactly what bandwidth you will get, and when.

The other problem is that we must understand that we live in a country where the local Telco has had a monopoly on bandwidth since day 1. And even though things are changing, its going to be a long time before we can even think we are at the level of countries like USA and UK. And its sad because technologicaly we probably are very very close, but greed has held us back.

I know of someone in the US recently who signed-up for a cellphone contract, and got a free 1mbit internet connection for the life of the contract. We could never even try to offer that here, not because of technology but because bandwidth is ridiculously expensive due to people wanting to make money.

At last year's computer faire, I asked a Telkom sales person why bandwidth is so expensive here. He said because South Africa is such a big country and also that theft makes it too expensive. The buck has been successuly passed...

The days of Telkom are numbered, and althought iBurst may be at fault with a lot of things - remember that they rely on an infrastructure that until now has been built on only one ethos - give a little, take a lot.
 
If local becomes almost free...

Wouldn't this then start a bigger trend of mirrors in SA. Wouldn't we then see ftp.is.co.za and similars become much bigger than they are at the moment?

Maybe even make it open, then when I download my ATI drivers, I also upload them to a local server?

Then we save on international connectivity.

:)
 
iBurst take note

TheRoDent said:
This is all very restrictive and iBurst's international bandwidth is going to be very expensive, that's understood.

My view is, that in order to up the standard of broadband in South Africa, local access should be almost free.
theRodent is spot on with this. One of the primary reasons I've gone ADSL is that local bandwidth remains uncapped. This is a great boost for local gaming, internet banking, online retail and other domestic offerings that will benefit our economy.

Sentech essentially offers the advertised speeds for local access, as does ADSL - so iBurst is really shown up on this side. If Sentech can afford to offer essentially uncapped local access, then iBurst should too.
If the current telecoms environment doesn't allow it, then WBS must lobby government - its their problem, not their users' problem.

If iBurst really wanted to kick Telkom's ass and start some real competition, they should:
-> Implement unshaped 3GB cap for INTERNATIONAL access only
-> Allow international bandwidth to be purchased per GB - eg. pay-as-you-go
-> Offer uncapped LOCAL access

The above recommendations are within reason given our telecoms context, and in fact does not represent a significant financial risk to WBS's offering.
If anything the above should help them grow faster by stealing many ADSL users...
If iBurst did the above - without increasing price/decreasing service - they would have the best product offering on the market. Period.
 
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bb_matt said:
Actually, p2p shaping on Telkom ADSL is non-existant to all intents and purposes.
For bittorrent, I just NAT it through to port 80, setup my torrent client to run on port 80 and providing there's enough seeds, I reach close enough to top speed.

Actually it doesn't matter which port you set bittorrent to listen on, its which port the server users to listen on that counts.
 
The server is just a tracker. It's updated maybe once every 10 mins.
The problem is the ports that your peers/seeds are listening on.
 
Doesn't the tracker use port 80 already?

Continuing with the discussion re Telkom / iBurst...

I think its probably a case of local ISPs being too scared to compete with Telkom. How could anyone possibly compete with Telkom when Telkom controls everything. Theres no way. It would be a case of biting the hand that feeds. I think until such time as Telkom decides to do us customers a favour and stop ripping us off for a bit we're all stuffed! Just a thought...
 
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