SA soapie at war with culture

daveza

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http://www.news24.com/Content/Enter...0-01-2010-07-19/SA_soapie_at_war_with_culture

Nelspruit - The Pan Africanist Youth Congress of Azania (Payco) has come under fire from human rights and gay and lesbian organisations for its statement calling for the abolishment of homosexual practices.

In the statement released on Monday, the league said the SABC1 soapie Generations has "declared war with African cultures and practices" and that "Africa is not the home of gays and lesbians".

In an interview with African Eye News Service on Wednesday, league president Pitso Mphasha said all the structures within the PAC were opposed to homosexuality.

"We are saying to hell with the SA constitution for giving rights to gays and lesbians. Homosexuality is totally immoral and there is no place for gays and lesbians here," said Mphasha.

"Gays and lesbians in Africa are confused people who have been mentally colonised by Western imperialists who make them abandon their own cultures," he said.

Promoting evil

Mphasha said before the constitution was approved in 1996, PAC members in parliament spoke out against the inclusion of rights for gays and lesbians but “they were overpowered by the ANC majority”.

He said his office would write an official letter to the producers of Generations to "stop promoting evil and un-African practices”.

Questions questions...

Do they mean African cultures as in blacks in Africa, or everyone who lives in Africa?

Same for 'un-African practices '.

Gays and Lesbians in Africa - does this include whites, indians, coloureds etc ?

Perhaps they need a reminder :


"As the ANC we believe that no organisation should ever be allowed to dictate how other cultures should practise their traditions and customs."

"Gays and lesbians in Africa are confused people who have been mentally colonised by Western imperialists who make them abandon their own cultures," he said.

Do they seriously suggest homosexuality didn't exist before the white dude came along ?

Anyway, nice to see them focusing on the really important issues in the country. :(
 
What is it about homosexuals that makes them such an obsession? These people appear to be feel very threatened by them. Or are people like Pitso Mphasha in the closet themselves?
 
Hypocrites should then also throw away their "western" clothing and go back to wearing animal skins.
 
Aren't those two guys the only gay people on the show? That means they won't cheat on each other with other characters. Meanwhile other characters are trying to beat Tiger Woods' record. Sometimes I need a condom to watch soapies.
 
Its this obsession with homosexuals in Africa that leads me to believe one day Africans will all come out of the closet.


In the statement released on Monday, the league said the SABC1 soapie Generations has "declared war with African cultures and practices" and that "Africa is not the home of gays and lesbians".

*yawn*

they seem to be declaring war on everything these days. I doubt they even know the true meaning of war.
 
Its the The Pan Africanist Youth Congress of Azania,they have about as much influence as my small toe.It's their belief.I wont be suprised if parties like the ACDP feel the same way.
 
The ANC was pro-gay during Apartheid, because it was considered PC and fashionable to be for gay rights. The PAC became irrelevant as soon as they seperated from the ANC due to the latter officially espousing a non-racialist outlook in its anti-Apartheid efforts.

Additionally, homosexuality is part of all human cultures throughout history. Luckily, there were no confused Africans poisoned by Christianity around when Shaka encouraged his soldiers to engage in M2M thigh sex to build solidarity (ukusoma http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukusoma ). And too few confused African Christians know about the practise in Lesotho where women whose husbands have moved to work in South Africa's mines console each other by forming lesbian relationships. Nor for that matter, do they know the stories of Egypt's Gods who used to engage in what would be considered homosexual sex for ritualistic purposes (Seth seducing Horus). Or even...

Anyways, personally I've started watching Generations more often, primarily in support of the LGBTI community. It's irresponsible and forgetful for Africans to espouse hatred of oppressed people, but I guess that with a little bit of Christianity and a false sense of power anyone can become a right-wing bigot, even to their own detriment.
 
The ANC was pro-gay during Apartheid, because it was considered PC and fashionable to be for gay rights. The PAC became irrelevant as soon as they seperated from the ANC due to the latter officially espousing a non-racialist outlook in its anti-Apartheid efforts.

Additionally, homosexuality is part of all human cultures throughout history. Luckily, there were no confused Africans poisoned by Christianity around when Shaka encouraged his soldiers to engage in M2M thigh sex to build solidarity (ukusoma http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukusoma ). And too few confused African Christians know about the practise in Lesotho where women whose husbands have moved to work in South Africa's mines console each other by forming lesbian relationships. Nor for that matter, do they know the stories of Egypt's Gods who used to engage in what would be considered homosexual sex for ritualistic purposes (Seth seducing Horus). Or even...

Anyways, personally I've started watching Generations more often, primarily in support of the LGBTI community. It's irresponsible and forgetful for Africans to espouse hatred of oppressed people, but I guess that with a little bit of Christianity and a false sense of power anyone can become a right-wing bigot, even to their own detriment.

Very interesting post.

Funny though that Zuma the big Zulu traditionalist is so against homosexuality.

Will be very interesting to see the reaction of Isede to some of your posts when he join the forum again.
 
I meant "BEFORE it was considered PC and fashionable to be for gay rights", not "because".

What's up with this Isende, I mean Isede?
 
The issue I am wondering about is:

All these political science students and political activists have always had the issue of APARTHEID aka racism to rally about and around.

Now that racism/apartheid is an issue fading into the background, I can only suppose that these activists, political groups are floundering.

They don't know anything else. They have not reached a mature enough state of realisation to use their talents/knowledge and experience to improve service delivery from government.

They seem to be unable to tackle their senior compatriots in government regarding, large scale corruption, entitlement, lying and deceiving and generally bad service delivery on all levels.

Now petty issues like homosexuality are finding their way onto the agenda of these floundering politicals. They are ill equipped to debate such moral issues whilst the country is rife with rape, violent and extremely cruel crime, xenophobia, joblessness and HIV.

Who will set them straight, who will take the lead Mr Zuma ?
Where is your leadership, your people need you.
 
Nor for that matter, do they know the stories of Egypt's Gods who used to engage in what would be considered homosexual sex for ritualistic purposes (Seth seducing Horus). Or even...

these same gods allso commited rampant incest if memory serves, so either your argument has a few holes or you approve of incest
 
"these same gods allso commited rampant incest if memory serves, so either your argument has a few holes or you approve of incest"

I disapprove of idiots retrospectively calling whatever they don't like "un-African". Firstly, Africa is diverse; secondly, far more has happened here than we can fathom (especially since people have been living here for 300 000 years).
 
Perhaps they need a reminder :
"As the ANC we believe that no organisation should ever be allowed to dictate how other cultures should practise their traditions and customs."

Is there a reason you quote the ANC in a story that has nothing to do with the ANC?
 
...So yes, he is kind of right, homophobia is very african indeed.

Two individuals express their very different opinions and that makes you think you can make proclamations on an issue you know little about?

Has it ever occured to you that Zuma simply doesn't like gays? What if Tutu came out and said as a Christian he isn't particularly fond of Credo Mutwa, would that mean that spiritualists and shamans are un-African, because some African leader expressed a personal opinion of not liking them?

Sorry, Phenom, you never hear Africans disputing with some world culture about the latter culture's beliefs and traits. Don't just invest in what you know -- stick to it.
 
...

Only 5% of our nation accepts that we are all born equal, really something to think about.

What percent of the world in general accepts homosexuality? What percent of Britain or America? Fact is, people generally don't like open gays globally, especially with Christian influence. At least here in Africa we don't have a history of torturing gay men to death by sticking red hot pokers up their bums, something that is a documented part of European culture and tradition...

really, the ONLY? to say that a harmless, peaceful and productive marridge, only to lower the high African rates of sexually transmitted diseases is wrong, pretty much says something.

Are you serious? Opposing gay marriage opposes marriage in general? You DO know that one of the most common arguments against homosexuality used by some leaders is that it threatens marriage and family -- the nucleus of traditional African society?

Gay men in societies where gay marriage is illegal have to choose to be faithful and safe, just like in societies where it is legal. You can't legislate self-preservation.

Africa doesnt care about anything but it's narcissistic culture

Relax. You're becoming erratic.

If you and your neighbour are being chased by armed killers whom you stole drug money from, and he falls and breaks his leg in 4 separate places and absolutely can't move, and you decide to leave him hidden in a corner because you never knew him anyway and he wasn't really a nice guy, you're not being a narcisist, you're only saving yourself. It's not because you love yourself obsessively, it's because you realise that no matter how much you suck, you do at least deserve to live -- your life is the only thing left worth fighting for.

People hate Africans and their culture. They disparage it, call it names like "backward" and "barbaric". They want to fight Africans for doing what everybody else does in peace: celebrating their unique beliefs and using them to better themselves. They honestly think that the biggest problem that Africa has is that it is too bloody AFRICAN! It's not something I've heard of or read in some polemic article -- just look at the opinions expressed in this thread and much of the threads on this sub-board, by people who live here but positively relish in the idea that they're not African because if they were they couldn't claim to be better in every way. You have people whose ancestors have been here for 3, 4 hundred years who proudly proclaim that they're not African, because if they admitted that they belong here than they would lose the ability to make self-righteous jokes about Zuma dancing in leopard skins without a sublime sense of irony.

We literally have nothing to lose except the very essence of ourselves. So, like a dog that's been forced into a corner, we don't gnash and bite because we love ourselves so much and we think we're so great, we do it because we can feel our imminent death.

Unfortunately, some American Christians told idiot African Christians that the "gay agenda" is to recruit poor Africans and destroy the family and procreation -- the very foundation of African society. This is the problem: not that homosexuality is not particularly appealing, but rather that some people have it in their head that it actively wants to destroy the family.

This is the same tactic that these Christians used everywhere else, but here it acquires a new level of desperation. Just when we've managed to chase Europe away with their chains and and their maps and their mines and their usury and their conditional "aid", they come with their latest assualt strategy. This is what causes the explicit anger instead of implicit disapproval.

And Christianity -- the mythology that teaches people that poverty, suffering, disease, pain, inequity are just temporary worldly ailments that you won't have to deal with forever if you die devoted enough -- is particularly appealing here. Even though the European parents are becoming increasingly aware that Father Christmas is not actually real, their African children honestly do believe in him due to the allure of sweets and presents if they're good enough.

The problem, and the solution, is UNDERSTANDING and ACCEPTANCE. Not a further hostile eroding of Africanness. All it takes is for the leadership to accept homosexuality as a responsible personal choice, which is what the ANC did in the 1980s. The goal of the LGBTI community now should not be public acceptance, it should be legal protection, thus your statistics about how most South Africans/Africans disapprove of gays are moot.

You can't force people to accept you, you can just ask them to leave you the fsck alone. Freedom of belief and conscience works both ways...
 
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People hate Africans and their culture. They disparage it, call it names like "backward" and "barbaric". They want to fight Africans for doing what everybody else does in peace: celebrating their unique beliefs and using them to better themselves. They honestly think that the biggest problem that Africa has is that it is too bloody AFRICAN! It's not something I've heard of or read in some polemic article -- just look at the opinions expressed in this thread and much of the threads on this sub-board, by people who live here but positively relish in the idea that they're not African because if they were they couldn't claim to be better in every way. You have people whose ancestors have been here for 3, 4 hundred years who proudly proclaim that they're not African, because if they admitted that they belong here than they would lose the ability to make self-righteous jokes about Zuma dancing in leopard skins without a sublime sense of irony.

Maybe if black people in this country accepted us as Africans we would not have all these problems!
We have had numerous discussions on this forum and I have even seen it being discussed on SABC Africa(watch it when I can't sleep), and the conclusion more than 90% of the time, if you are white your not African!

Last time somebody on this forum proclaimed to be proudly African, he was told he is not proud of his European heritage, and this was said to him by black forumite.

The above is not a single incident white people here on a regular basis we are NOT African and don't belong here!
 
Maybe if black people in this country accepted us as Africans we would not have all these problems!
We have had numerous discussions on this forum and I have even seen it being discussed on SABC Africa(watch it when I can't sleep), and the conclusion more than 90% of the time, if you are white your not African!

Last time somebody on this forum proclaimed to be proudly African, he was told he is not proud of his European heritage, and this was said to him by black forumite.

The above is not a single incident white people here on a regular basis we are NOT African and don't belong here!

i think the problem is people are too forthcoming with their opinions. there are plenty of of white south africans that feel that black south africans did nothing to deserve this country. if anyone will suggest i'm not south african, then they can go to hell. i have nowhere else to go, and i was born here and suffered alongside everyone just as much as they have. just a nagging part of me feels that there wouldn't be this feeling of black nationalism if it was not for the white nationalists in the first place.

homophobia is a religious and cultural belief, and in most circumstances i'd say that racism and sexism is too. it's hysterical to think that we're arguing african culture here as a reason for homophobia when america, which is a first world country with quality education and differing cultures has such a high rate of homophobia. Zuma may be against homosexuals but i'm pretty sure George Bush is too.
 
I wonder why the PAC are choosing to do this now... with all the bad press that Uganda are getting with their anti gay agenda at the moment its just going to put them in the same boat.

The ANC need to come out strongly against this, regardless of what their feelings on the subject are. Any African country that is seen to be siding with Uganda and this homophobic agenda is going to take a hammering in the media.

Right now that is the last thing we want.
 
Maybe if black people in this country accepted us as Africans we would not have all these problems!
We have had numerous discussions on this forum and I have even seen it being discussed on SABC Africa(watch it when I can't sleep), and the conclusion more than 90% of the time, if you are white your not African!

Here's my own personal view. It's not the view of Africans, or the ANC, or whomever else -- it's mine.

The problem, is that this declaration of Africanness often comes with a certain level of dishonesty. As a sane person, I can't claim to belong to a certain group, yet find it disturbingly easy to deride and insult it. People can't claim they're African when, at the slightest provocation, they call Africans criminals who blame everything on colonialism (that e.tv criminals thread), say it's not a big deal that the D.A. built toilets without walls because urinating and defacating in public is the African way (iol.co.za user comments on the story), or say the usual crap about South Africa becoming another typical African country, etc.

This **** is not merely an observation or honest opinion, it's vile vitriol aimed at directly attacking African dignity. Africans wouldn't do this to themselves -- and they don't.

And those of you who keep quite or make ambiguous jokes (like you) make me suspicious. Do you silently agree with them? Is what they're saying plausible and you haven't made your mind up? Or are you just mostly too cowardly to speak up, because I've rarely seen any "white" person actively speaking against these kinds of popular sentiments that basically constitute hate speech?

And it's not CensorBugbear, ZASucks, iluvsa or Boerevryheid. It's regular internet sites like MBB, iol, News24, Facebook and the like, where, I imagine, regular "white" people with internet access congregate, and freely express their regular "white" thoughts and beliefs. You aren't radicals who live on a Boeremag Afrikaner breeding camp or otherwise crazy people, you're regular members of society who interact with African collegues, acquaintances, neighbours, customer service personnel, who see them on T.V. daily. There are no extraordinary aggravating circumstances necessary for one to have these sentiments it appears -- it's just what "white" people in general think of us.

Or what, being a nøøbmeister and all, is there something special about BBSA and Frankie and others that I don't know, that makes their beliefs and comments endemic of a minor subculture and not just the mundane beliefs of the majority?


Now you see, with that in mind, I simply need proof of your Africanness, because by my suspicions you're probably typical and think Africa is a sad joke. Sorry.

So you really have to prove yourself worthy of the label. Let's take Mark Shuttleworth as an example. He's a fairly private person and doesn't speak out on much, so I can't judge him on his words. After selling Thawte and paying the Russians to strap him to a rickety old rocket, I honestly believe he lived up to the label "African" in his title "the first African in space". He has invested his fortune in initiatives aimed at giving South Africans access to OSS, and embraced the ubuNtu ethic to such an extant that he developed an operating system based on its ideals to make it more accessible to people who aren't Linux geeks. An African who invests in his land and relies upon African concepts and traditions to solve Africa's problems -- I wish someday I could be as great an African as him.

Last time somebody on this forum proclaimed to be proudly African, he was told he is not proud of his European heritage, and this was said to him by black forumite.

The above is not a single incident white people here on a regular basis we are NOT African and don't belong here!

In my personal opinion you simply have to make a decision. Do you think you belong here and nowhere else? Are you willing to watch the news, read the papers, listen to what regular joes have to say on the internet, and still cling on to the label in the face of constant assaults to it and the people who carry it? Are you willing to stay on the same boat come sink or swim?
 
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