Violence not tied to poverty

BBSA

BBSA

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http://www.timeslive.co.za/news/article296916.ece

High levels of violent crime are not linked to poverty levels in municipalities across the country, according to a SA Institute of Race Relations (SAIRR) study.

The SAIRR said Eastern Cape municipalities had the highest murder rate, 54 murders per 100,000 people, and a poverty rate of 62%.

But Limpopo municipalities recorded the lowest murder rate - while sharing the same poverty rate.

The findings form part of a local government study which assessed 80 indicators from each of 52 metropolitan and district municipalities.

The indicators included demographics, education, employment, housing, access to basic services, transport, social security, health, and crime.

Western Cape municipalities also recorded a high murder rate with a low poverty rate of 27.5%.

Poverty rates varied across municipalities, nationally and within provinces.

The Alfred Nzo District Municipality in the Eastern Cape recorded the highest poverty rate with 76%, while the lowest was in the West Coast Municipality and the Cape Winelands Municipality in the Western Cape.

The study also noted that the municipalities with the highest access to basic services were in Gauteng — in the City of Johannesburg with only 4% of households without access to water, 8% with no access to electricity and 5% with no access to sanitation.

In the Alfred Nzo District Municipality 54% of the residents had no access to water, 58% had no access to electricity and 63% had no access to sanitation.
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Interesting..... Comments?
 
Crime has everything to do with the risk/reward ratio. If there is little risk in getting caught, and then an even smaller risk of getting a significant punishment then there is little reason for those without a conscience to refrain from violent crimes.

China is just as poor as South Africa and yet their crime is under control.
 
MrHands said:
Crime has everything to do with the risk/reward ratio. If there is little risk in getting caught, and then an even smaller risk of getting a significant punishment then there is little reason for those without a conscience to refrain from violent crimes.

China is just as poor as South Africa and yet their crime is under control.
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+1 There is very little concern for consequence, if you look at the nature and types of crimes which are most prevelant and violent in this country its never a matter of stealing a loaf of bread, it's a lot more like organised crimes.
 
sweet...wish I could share my criminology study guides with you-they have interesting findings :)
 
I think the subject should be changed to read murder and not violence as that is what the study appears to reflect.

To my knowledge a fair number of murders are as a result of alcohol related incidents and domestic issues. These would not be affected by the wealth of the individual. Only 15% are as a result of another criminal activity.

My point is that I for one have never argued that poverty and murder are interlinked but I do still feel that poverty and other criminal activity like theft etc are definitely linked. If I had a family that I was unable to feed I too may consider petty crime as a means to getting a meal on the table. Unfortunately you may find that over time those petty crimes become less and less petty. You get away with the small stuff so you try and move on to the bigger hits. In doing so you may end up finding people start getting hurt... the slide starts.
 
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LancelotSA said:
I think the subject should be changed to read murder and not violence as that is what the study appears to reflect.

To my knowledge a fair number of murders are as a result of alcohol related incidents and domestic issues. These would not be affected by the wealth of the individual. Only 15% are as a result of another criminal activity.

My point is that I for one have never argued that poverty and murder are interlinked but I do still feel that poverty and other criminal activity like theft etc are definitely linked. If I had a family that I was unable to feed I too may consider petty crime as a means to getting a meal on the table.
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Depending on the risk, if there was a high probability that you going to get caught you would rather consider petty crime. You not going to help your family sitting in a jail.
 
LancelotSA said:
My point is that I for one have never argued that poverty and murder are interlinked but I do still feel that poverty and other criminal activity like theft etc are definitely linked. If I had a family that I was unable to feed I too may consider petty crime as a means to getting a meal on the table. Unfortunately you may find that over time those petty crimes become less and less petty. You get away with the small stuff so you try and move on to the bigger hits. In doing so you may end up finding people start getting hurt... the slide starts.
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I think that robbing a house, raping the child and wife and killing everyone - only to steal several thousand bucks is not a good example of petty theft. SA has a lot of child abuse, rape, murder and violent crime. If petty theft was the major problem - such as stealing of washing, pickpocketting, smash and grab and such, people wouldn't be making studies as this one and we wouldn't have a prosperous barbed wire/electrical fence/security system industry.
 
PeterCH said:
I think that robbing a house, raping the child and wife and killing everyone - only to steal several thousand bucks is not a good example of petty theft. SA has a lot of child abuse, rape, murder and violent crime. If petty theft was the major problem - such as stealing of washing, pickpocketting, smash and grab and such, people wouldn't be making studies as this one and we wouldn't have a prosperous barbed wire/electrical fence/security system industry.
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Did I say that?

You seem to be desperate to take this thread off topic onto a South Africa is a hellhole discussion. This was about the link between poverty and murder (as this was the stats given). I highly doubt someone's financial standing would have an effect on their ability to commit murder. This study appears to be a waste of money. Poverty could, however, lead one into the spiral of criminal life.

50% of murders are shown to be as a result of a misunderstanding or argument... that does not sound like "robbing a house, raping the child and wife and killing everyone" would fit that definition. Criminal activity related murders are shown at 15%.
 
LancelotSA said:
I think the subject should be changed to read murder and not violence as that is what the study appears to reflect.

To my knowledge a fair number of murders are as a result of alcohol related incidents and domestic issues. These would not be affected by the wealth of the individual. Only 15% are as a result of another criminal activity.

My point is that I for one have never argued that poverty and murder are interlinked but I do still feel that poverty and other criminal activity like theft etc are definitely linked. If I had a family that I was unable to feed I too may consider petty crime as a means to getting a meal on the table. Unfortunately you may find that over time those petty crimes become less and less petty. You get away with the small stuff so you try and move on to the bigger hits. In doing so you may end up finding people start getting hurt... the slide starts.
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Maybe you should look at the statistics again! You try and make it a soft blow as usual but most of the murders in this country are not due to the act of committing the crime, which you prefer to label as escalating petty crimes, but the preempted vision or plan to commit the violence. They are deliberate acts of violence committed by a huge amount of pseudo "criminals" to inflict harm with intent. The gruesomeness just get worse as the media impart information. Winnie Mandela (Tyre necklace Queen) and Zuma's,Malema's inciting influence does not help either.

The topic says "Violence are not linked to poverty" that is a fact. It would be more linked to the upbringing environment, type of person (personality), gene pool and peer pressures (gangs) as well as hatred.
 
I am Penguin said:
The real statistics

http://www.nationmaster.com/country/sf-south-africa/cri-crime
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Unfortunately that does not break down the murder stats so it is pretty useless as a means of backing up your argument. Where does it show which of those murders were related to other criminal activities like housebreaking, which were as a result of a domestic dispute etc?

most of the murders in this country are not due to the act of committing the crime, which you prefer to label as escalating petty crimes, but the preempted vision or plan to commit the violence. They are deliberate acts of violence committed by a huge amount of pseudo "criminals" to inflict harm with intent
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I'll await your stats to prove this.
 
LancelotSA said:
Unfortunately that does not break down the murder stats so it is pretty useless as a means of backing up your argument. Where does it show which of those murders were related to other criminal activities like housebreaking, which were as a result of a domestic dispute etc?



I'll await your stats to prove this.
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Look at the high percentage of violent crimes and murders with guns, do you for one moment think that the fact that a "robber" take a gun to his ANC appointed "JOB" just for fun, if so then why use it to kill unnecessarily. We read about it every day. So excuse me that the statistics is incomplete and not broken down properly as that is what the ANC are trying to achieve with their strict media and propaganda control. For example Nowhere will you find race mentioned in the victim's or perpetrator's police report and thus "statistics", ....... is that by accident?

Wasn’t it Mark Twain who said something like: “In life you get lies, damn lies, and statistics” ? I the South African context that takes on a complete different meaning or level of understanding. You have to Build the ANC and YOUR sunshine factor in.

Maybe its time You remove your "SA do gooder blinkers" and wake up to the real facts and news arround you. Oh I forgot, you live in your own little world of "simplistia" TOTALLY VOID OF ALL THE REAL LIFE MATTERS AND THINGS THAT HAPPENS OUT THERE. So you may be excused.

You conveniently forget a Violent crime in SA may be considered differently than a violent crime in the first world where a slap in the face may reported as violent. Here a "murder" during a robbery are rather reported as a "botched up robbery" and not as a violent murder.

Farm murders for one are very violent and hardly anything gets stolen, funny that we do not see that statistics also in the official reports neither the race of the "farmers" and the perpetrators" So why do I tell you this? Just to show you to get the Official statistics from a SA viewpoint is difficult, unavailable and for you will be Fruitless.

Maybe you should visit some other sites apart fro the "SA do gooders" site and see the real life issues. Like visit the link in my signature!

WE KNOW YOU BY NOW FOR YEARS and AS STATED BEFORE AND WE KNOW HOW FRUITLESS IT IS TO "PROVE" ANYTHING TO YOU. You will take anything we offer as "proof" as right wing propaganda, dubious sources, Anti ANC slurr, etc. Like your opinion about the link in my sIGNATURE!

http://www.frontline.org.za/articles/gettingaway_withmurder.htm point in case!

Serious Underreporting
The 22-page United Christian Action report by Robert McCafferty, is based on original source documents, government archives, the Central Statistics Service, Interpol, the South African Medical Research Council statistics, and many other sources. The Report casts serious doubt on the South African government’s claim that the murder rate has been decreasing.
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Just read the rest, I know you wont, and then maybe see the light, try to understand!
 
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I am Penguin said:
Look at the high percentage of violent crimes and murders with guns, do you for one moment think that the fact that a "robber" take a gun to his ANC appointed "JOB" just for fun, if so then why use it to kill unnecessarily. We read about it every day. So excuse me that the statistics is incomplete and not broken down properly as that is what the ANC are trying to achieve with their strict media and propaganda control. For example Nowhere will you find race mentioned in the victim's or perpetrator's police report and thus "statistics", ....... is that by accident?
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That knife cuts both ways, one can always work out the race of the person from the surname. How would you class the murder/suicides that mar white suburbs?

EDIT: Ps. It's bad enough bringing politics into statistics, but mixing politics with religion in statistics...eish.
 
Why is it that we've got around 50 murders a day. The sabc news is not reporting one murder a week.You will find more in the local community pages, then in the mainstream media.
I know a case in Kempton Park where 3 men jumped the front fence shot a 83 year old men in the head, and fleed immediatly. Source, the wife told my wife on the phone.
Happened on the 23.oct. 2009. Nothing was in the media. The old men had a pacemaker which did work 24 hours afterwards,Wait for the WC how many single so called incidents
will be reported.
 
Arko2 said:
Why is it that we've got around 50 murders a day. The sabc news is not reporting one murder a week. You will find more in the local community pages, then in the mainstream media.
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Unfortunately that is the nature of the media's business model. They know their target market and its a numbers business!
 
LancelotSA said:
Unfortunately that does not break down the murder stats so it is pretty useless as a means of backing up your argument. Where does it show which of those murders were related to other criminal activities like housebreaking, which were as a result of a domestic dispute etc?



I'll await your stats to prove this.
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It is well know and recorded that the majority of murders in this country are those were the victim and perpetrator are known to each other.
 
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