No more "free" phones with a contract.

gljackson, I beat you to it...

gljackson said:
This is an interesting article from b-day.


"The Independent Communications Authority of SA (Icasa) is conducting an inquiry into handset subsidies, and has given the industry until July 5 to comment."

http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/topstories.aspx?ID=BD4A52352
Same BusinessDay article already being discussed in the following MyADSL thread :):

[post=220249]2005-06-03/'Free' Handsets Cost Cellphone Buyers Plenty...[/post]
 
My memory is vague, but not sure if anyone else remembers, some years back i am sure there was some legislation/co-operative agreement around this as well. I remember the likes of Game giving phones away at 1cent so that it was not free. Not sure on the finer details as it was way back, but this is not "new". At the end of the day, your handset is not actually "free". The network incorporates this cost into your contract, so in essence you "financing" your phone over your contract term. The thing is, if ICASA say no more free phones, will we see the networks lowering the contract prices of contracts? I seriously doubt it.
 
There is somethinjg very strange about this stuff anyway. A new Nokia 6630 costs about R4100 from Nokia. On MTN's MyCall 100, they 'give' you one for R299, and you contract for R150 or so over 2 years, thats R3899 (plus you get 2400 units airtime). So either the retail phones have one giant markup, or the airtime has (or both).
 
magus said:
There is somethinjg very strange about this stuff anyway. A new Nokia 6630 costs about R4100 from Nokia. On MTN's MyCall 100, they 'give' you one for R299, and you contract for R150 or so over 2 years, thats R3899 (plus you get 2400 units airtime). So either the retail phones have one giant markup, or the airtime has (or both).
I suggest: comparing the retail price of the phone to UK/international, and then factor in bulk buying...:D
 
But even so. Let's imagine the phone only 'costs' R2000. So then I am buying 2400 'units' of airtime for only R 1800. Something is screwy here. This is on a smalltime advertised contract.
 
magus said:
But even so. Let's imagine the phone only 'costs' R2000. So then I am buying 2400 'units' of airtime for only R 1800. Something is screwy here. This is on a smalltime advertised contract.
I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just saying that comparing international to SA phone retail prices, should shed some light...;)
 
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Some member here have asserted that it is 'better' to buy your phone for cash. They should do some arithmetic. The contract wins every time. Even without figuring in the cost of finance.
 
I have always thought that much like Bears, Geen & Richards, Lubners etc, these enteprises are much less in the business of furniture or phones in this case but rather in the business of credit.

It is my speculation that prices of handsets are set artificially high to force end users to right sign a contract than buy the phone upfront. I would like to see cheaper MTN Talk 300 contracts in much the same way as you would find an Iburst or MyWireless contract having bought the unit upfront.
 
qDot said:
much less in the business of furniture or phones in this case but rather in the business of credit.

.
Intuitively I agree with you. However, do the math and you will see that you buy the phone for the same amount of money (more or less) and no finance charges. Plus you get some amount of minutes free. It is a no-brainer.
 
Actuarial Science

Guys

It's not about the minimum that you can possibly spend on that contract per month. It's about what they expect the average person to realistically spend, over and above their free minutes.

When I got a printout of what phones I could get on my upgrade, from Vodashop, there was a field at the top of the page marked "AVERAGE SPEND" (or something to that effect). Their computer system is interested in what I actually spend every month, rather than only what contract I'm on.

Further to that comment, I also agree with the statement above that the service providers must be getting massive discounts off the retail price. Firstly, they're bulk buying, and at those volumes, what cell phone manufacturer would like to decline the opportunity to be represented in that lucrative market.

Sorry for Nokia that they can't get a 3G phone out on the Vodacom network, more than 6 months after the 3G launch. But thank you Vodacom for testing these thoroughly. MTN doesn't seem to mind releasing phones with which Vodacom has compliance issues.
 
I've got another question, surely if your call costs are inflated due to the "free" handset. Then surely after your 24 month contract is concluded, your call costs should drop.

I would also think that this should apply to any of the pre-paid packages where the phone is actually bought seperately.
 
All i can say, the fact that cellphones with 'basic' abilities [not PDA] costs almost more than my ENTIRE desktop pc with a 15'' monitor says somewhere it must be overpriced. I mean how is it possible that i can buy a top of the range laptop for R6000 and a cellphone not even close to those capabilities goes for R3000 ? (And then im not even talking about those R6000 PDA-Cellphones *shudders* ).

Which is why i tihnk its ironically true that Vodacom/MTN can [and probably will] offer laptops/Pcs on contracts rather than phones :P
 
gljackson said:
I've got another question, surely if your call costs are inflated due to the "free" handset. Then surely after your 24 month contract is concluded, your call costs should drop.

After your contract is up, you are on a month-to-month contract with them. No more secure income. This makes them nervous. They want to keep you. They'd rather lure you with a shiny new cellphone, to another two-year contract, than drop your rates.

This applies to prepaid too. You think they want you on prepaid? Not a frik - if prepaid were any cheaper, they'd lose out on those nice, secure two-year contracts, which work out cheaper for Joe Consumer.

Not Gospel, but certainly an idea to munch over...

p.s. Let me add that, when my off-peak contract was started two years ago, I elected to forfeit the phone, 'cos I had a leftover from my on-peak upgrade. Without the phone, they gave me R 2 000 cash. This is a bribe, folks! Same as the "free" phone - I'm still stuck with them for two years, and I enter the contract knowing this. So a bribe I had no problem accepting.
 
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I am an electronic engineer and design products. I have a fair idea of how much components cost. For one of my projects I bought a Sony Ericson GSM unit. This comes complete with GSM, 3 types of audio coding (PCM, etc...), keypad scanner, full AT command set, GPRS class 10 with TCP/IP stack, programmable I/O, user serial ports, real time clock, LED drivers,....and that is just off the top of my head. It costs R500 unit price. If you go to about 2000 units you can get them for R350. If you are someone like SonyEricson or Nokia then the core won't cost you anything near R350, rather R100 or less.

Take the above and add GPS navigation with a user programmable CPU running at 200MHz and you are talking just over R1000(again unit cost), all just on the area of a credit card.

LCDs can be costly especially in small quantities, but I reckon you can get a nice display (like the one on my Samsung E700) for about R400. The idea is not to use custom displays but more generic ones. So in theory someone like Nokia should be able to use something of the shelf. Epson is bringing out a plastic, as apposed to glass, based LCD this year dropping the cost even further. Bottom line is that when you reach quantities of a few thousand the cost drops a lot!!!

Plastic enclosures are expensive. You pay on average R30 000 for the cheapest 1-part mould. You could end up paying R500 000 for detailed moulds, and that does not even include the once off engineering cost. Lets say a phone's tooling will cost R1 000 000, then selling 100 000 units will add R10 to the cost of the phone. Plastic costs cents per unit. If Nokia sells only 1 500 cell phones of a certain model then it will cost close to R700 for the tooling cost per unit, but we all know they sell a bit more than that :-)

Batteries are black magic. Again mass production brings down the cost. At the end we already pay too much for replacement batteries. The cost varies a lot depending on type and capacity, but this should not cause a phone to cost R4000+.

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The contract thing is vary much like insurance. Good risk pays for bad risk. In this case you get many people with cellphone bills of R2000+. I know these kind of people. They risk brain cancer looking at the time they are attached to their phones. So some people will use less than the cost of their cellphones. One thing to keep in mind is that the big spenders need people to call. Looking at my call usage I find that I receive a lot more calls than I am making.

At the end of the day the average usage of all users is levelled out and depending on the billions of profit they make they can afford to 'seed' the market with non-callers aka call-receivers. The idea is to make the money flow.

I used to be a call receiver type of guy. Basically made less than 10 short calls per month. Lots of people did call me. Now I am more a spender call maker kind of guy. In the span of 2 years I would have spent R14400 on contract and calls basically paying off each month contract subs and the R3600 my phone went for at time of sale. That leaves about R6500 extra.

* If all people made 10 calls per month the phones would not be free.

* Looking at simple electronics costs even the most advanced phone just has more software features. So you are paying more like you would for airbags and other options on a car. My feeling is that they are stuffing the price. The average electronic device's real electronics only contribute 10% to the final product's price.


So prices are manipulated and they are seeding the market with more handsets than required. I have received 2 handsets every two years since 1996. I give them away to friends and family. This opens up more future business for pay-as-you-go.


Think about this: If petrol was like airtime then companies like BP and Mobil would have given the cars away for free. You would be paying a lot per kilometer though. And if you think this is a funny thought then be more amused to know that there are companies out there that do just that. You get a car, must drive a minimum number of km/month. The cost includes petrol, services, insurance, the works. Some clients don't drive that much but some do 800km per day.

Another thing to consider is that electronic components are shrinking in size and cost. Example 433MHz remote control. Many remote controls are still about R100 for a transmitter and R200 for a receiver. Those are historic prices. The components I get these days contains a chip with a built in CPU, receiver and transmitter with PLL in a small 5x5 mm chip for only R30(unit cost). People will be milked until they learn otherwise.

Thought I would share a few things you could tell your family over Sunday lunch :-)

VMS
 
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