webafrica it's unsustainable VS mweb, vox, openweb, afrihost, be2 and AXXESS.. um no

Necuno

Necuno

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webafrica it's unsustainable VS mweb, vox, openweb, afrihost, NexusISP, b2e & AXXESS

*note can't fit any more into the thread's title*



webafrica it's unsustainable VS mweb, vox, openweb, afrihost, NexusISP, Imagine, SAGateway, b2e & AXXESS.. um no

well that makes it 9 pies now to swallow :eek:

waroop said:
If Mweb pulls it off I will be well prepared to eat humble pie, we will of course be keeping a close eye on them. Regardless one has to commend Mweb for their bold move! We are loving this added heat and benefit to the industry - nothing strengthens one like adversity.
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i'm curious if it is unsustainable why can 9 isps resell at that value ?
 
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Might be semantics, but aren't some of those 7 just reselling IS product. But nonetheless between IS and M-Web I would imagine that that is quite a large foorprint in terms of network.
 
milomak said:
Might be semantics, but aren't some of those 7 just reselling IS product. But nonetheless between IS and M-Web I would imagine that that is quite a large foorprint in terms of network.
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maybe, but it is still 7 companies standing by the offer and not just one and that's point.
 
How can you tell if anything is sustainable or not after only a week?
 
Imagine isp added... count now at 8

czc said:
True, already some complaints of degrading quality.
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or network is ****ed. that tends to happen from time to time even with saix and is "normal".
 
Necuno said:
Imagine isp added... count now at 8



or network is ****ed. that tends to happen from time to time even with saix and is "normal".
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People will still complain.

I'm still with afrihost and have not noticed any performance knock myself.
 
The biggest problem I see is in the peering between SIAX and IS. IS provision their own international but the local network is Telkom and IS and I know for a fact that peering between the 2 is not cheap. Unless they do some funky routing and have all local traffic go via international routes and come inbound via international (which will already massively degrade the service) I can't see how IS will cope with this at these prices.

Then again I am no expert and this is my opinion.
 
I think just saying it is unsustainable is already proving to be unsustainable judging by the events currently unfolding.

More and more ISP's are moving towards the "unsustainable" uncapped model ;)

It is when you wake up and smell the coffee, ie. where have all my clients gone when your own business model then becomes unsustainable.

The rush is to light the fiber, and the the more market share the more lit fiber you will have to your credit :D

Then service levels will be the determining factor as to whether the fiber stays lit by your clients.
 
The quesetion is not whether it will be sustainable or not. The question is:

How are ISPs going to MAKE it sustainable?

The Tsunami has been let loose. It's too late to turn back. Nobody will except it. The ISPs will have to make it work.

Yes there will definitely be initial teething issues, service degradation and flooded networks. Shaping and throttling will have to be tweaked, networks will have to be optimised. I bet that this is probably the most nail-biting sh|t-storm that all the Network Engineers at IS, MWeb and all the other ISPs, will ever go through. We are riding the wave of revolution, and everyone are still only still learning to surf.

For the first time in SA history, there is cheap, affordable uncapped internet, and it is coming from EVERYWHERE. So don't expect things to be smooth throughout. People still need to get used to the novelty, and the ISPs still have to tune their networks and MAKE the business model work.

The most important thing that they need to do is MARKET the product to the masses. Get all the Mums, Dads, Grandparents, blondes, Corner shops, Cafes, SMEs and everybody else on to uncapped. They need to start phasing capped packages out - stop accepting new sign-ups and migrate everyone to uncapped. They'll need to be innovative to achieve this, as not everbody will be able to afford uncapped, but most people won't need uncapped either... but for the business model to work, they have to get these types of people on board ASAP... And they'll need to keep it simple.
 
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With regards the peering, I thought JINX was supposed to help, and CINX?
 
Let me give you an example from europe again: When I tell them about how my account was capped to a meagre 20 GB they ask me "WTF is that cap, what does it mean?". Only prepaid USB surf sticks have some kind of cap on them, the rest is all on uncapped. You don't have a choice between different caps or a local/international split. Either you sign up to the internet or you don't. Period!

That's how it works. Worldwide. Even in small countries with a smaller user base than South Africa.


Unsustainable my @$$.
 
ToxicWazte said:
The most important thing that they need to do is MARKET the product to the masses. Get all the Mums, Dads, Grandparents, blondes, Corner shops, Cafes, SMEs and everybody else on to uncapped. They need to start phasing capped packages out - stop accepting new sign-ups and migrate everyone to uncapped. They'll need to be innovative to achieve this, as not everbody will be able to afford uncapped, but most people won't need uncapped either... but for the business model to work, they have to get these types of people on board ASAP... And they'll need to keep it simple.
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Yip thats the business model right there. I think isp who are selling only 1 gig accounts need to try and upgrade their customers to the more expensive uncapped accounts.

It'll mean more money for them, which will lead to sustainability. They should stop saying a cap is a great product for users who only want one or two gigs, and rather try and get more money from their clients by enticing them with total internet freedom (uncapped). There is actually an opportunity here for them to make more money.

I have friends who are hip, young, and computer savvy who dont want more than 2 gigs a month, which is astonishing really. Isps should not fear uncapped but should rather embrace its alure and use it to suck more money from their clients.

Fair usage will keep the oddball extreme downloader in check.
 
jak3 said:
Yip thats the business model right there. I think isp who are selling only 1 gig accounts need to try and upgrade their customers to the more expensive uncapped accounts.

It'll mean more money for them, which will lead to sustainability. They should stop saying a cap is a great product for users who only want one or two gigs, and rather try and get more money from their clients by enticing them with total internet freedom (uncapped). There is actually an opportunity here for them to make more money.

I have friends who are hip, young, and computer savvy who dont want more than 2 gigs a month, which is astonishing really. Isps should not fear uncapped but should rather embrace its alure and use it to suck more money from their clients.

Fair usage will keep the oddball extreme downloader in check.
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So you want me to subsidise other peoples uncapped? If my ISP tells me I have to move onto an uncapped account and pay more, I will just move somewhere else. I am happy to pay a premium per GB for a better performing solution as I don't use a lot. IMO, the solution is to increase the CAPs while remaining at an affordable price until they get to the point where the CAP size is pretty much uncapped. LLU will help a lot as ISP's will be able to use the profit from the line to subsidise the bandwidth.
 
ToxicWazte said:
The most important thing that they need to do is MARKET the product to the masses. Get all the Mums, Dads, Grandparents, blondes, Corner shops, Cafes, SMEs and everybody else on to uncapped. They need to start phasing capped packages out - stop accepting new sign-ups and migrate everyone to uncapped. They'll need to be innovative to achieve this, as not everbody will be able to afford uncapped, but most people won't need uncapped either... but for the business model to work, they have to get these types of people on board ASAP... And they'll need to keep it simple.
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You can explain what the Internet and uncapped is then :p
 
Necuno said:
i'm curious if it is unsustainable why can 8 isps resell at that value ?
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All of those people are pretty much reselling 2 solutions. IS and MWeb. You can only tell whether they are sustainable when they reach capacity. Initially while there are not a lot of people on the network, they will seem to be fine. As you add users the contention ratios start to have an impact. Lets see 2 months down the line how happy people are with the accounts.
 
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