View Full Version : Whites 'advantaged' blacks
Whites 'advantaged' blacks (http://www.fin24.co.za/articles/default/display_article.asp?Nav=ns&ArticleID=1518-25_1807353)
Sep 27 2005 05:44:03:160PM
Pretoria - Black South Africans were better off for the arrival of whites in the country, white farmers' union TAU SA said on Tuesday.
"South Africa's blacks were advantaged because of the presence of whites, not disadvantaged," it said in a statement lamenting the impact of transformation on the commercial farming sector.
"They (blacks) can live decent lives thanks to the people whom their government wishes to destroy through affirmative action, farm harassment and heavy taxation."
Reiterating calls for "immediate interaction" with the government, the group cited numerous examples of African failures under black rule.
The imposition of Western "civilisation" on the continent allowed it to flourish, with cities built mostly by Western colonialists, it claimed.
"After the wave of 'independence' which swept through the continent in the sixties, seventies and even the eighties, black Africa declined, spectacularly so. In many areas it has regressed to what it was before whites came."
The union claims a country-wide membership of 6 000 white commercial farmers.
South Africa, it claimed, was the only country in sub-Saharan Africa to flourish.
"And everybody knows this is because of the presence of four-million-odd whites. This is a fact."
According to the statement, farmers were at the end of their tether.
It cited a memorandum presented at a recent Pretoria conference of the TAU by a group of farmers - mooting a struggle similar to that waged by the African National Congress if their fears were not addressed.
"This thinly-veiled reference to the tactics employed by the ANC to gain power in South Africa gives some insight into the level of frustration and anger building up within the white farming community," the statement said.
MikeNoble
27-09-2005, 06:13 PM
OMG, are they being serious? White people (the colonialists) raped africa, full stop. And yes I am white.
Drusky
27-09-2005, 06:29 PM
Looks like it was give and take to me "give and rape" to you. A civilization still in the Iron-age was given a kickstart wrt technology ie medicine, mechanization, the wheel. The technolgically advanced guys walked off with a whack of mineral wealth BUT hey they were organized enough to mine it.
Question is would the Original inhabitants of the land (probably actually the San or Khoi-San) prefer to still be living in the stone/iron-age not having technology to mine the minerals taken by those damn colonialist rapists. Or let's put it this way.
In my city, the local mayor stated that he would like to remove the ugly monuments put up by past colonialists (among them i think a statue of queen vic holding the globe) as they remind him of the wretched past. Sure they do but then why stop there. He should get rid of the fancy western car he drives and shun that armani suit and tie he's wearing. Rip out the evil colonialist infrastructure like roads and indoor plumbing. One could go on...
AcidRaZor
27-09-2005, 06:32 PM
MikeNoble, I tend to agree with this statement.
(also remember, I'm not talking about ONLY black people, but the "indeginous" (sp?) people)
Its a known fact that black people did not farm the land, they did not mine. They did have some sort of an economy, but mostly did things (and if they could choose, would still do things) like their ancestors did.
They would still be nomadic (even though the "standlopers" weren't as much)
The only thing that kept their populations in check (which we don't have nowadays) is huge wars. The zulu people pride themselves on their body and image and believed that they should conquer all "weaker" tribes and keep the beautiful women for them etc.
I may be a bit off here because this is what I was taught and what I've seen on tv a long time ago.
Colonists (the english) might be mocked for their "correct way" of doing things (gentlemans way etc etc even their wars are boring! :D ) but you can't argue the fact that they instantiated a culture of "gentleman like" things and put South Africa on the map where it is now.
As far as I know, the black people never had the inclination to explore the world, or go on a ship to a foreign country to collect spices. they're the ultimate "chill" culture (and the poor cape tonians get the flack! sheesh!)
Then again, you can learn alot from the way they do things
It is a couple of hundred years AFTER the fact. This whole thing is not about rasicm or apartheid anymore, its getting to the point where they are driving the "white man" out of this country.
Hell, this is the only country I know, the only country I've been brought up in, the only country (for as long as my family stretches) we've known. We ARE thusfore the indeginous people.
One word to sum up government, greed. period.
AcidRaZor
27-09-2005, 06:35 PM
In fact, I think the reason why their people never explored much or went from the iron age (as someone put it) is because they feared their g0ds or something. like the tokolosh
OMG, are they being serious? White people (the colonialists) raped africa, full stop. And yes I am white.
If it was rape now it is Gang Raping LOL ..............
I'am also white and respect Mandella
The point is that the countries declined AFTER the rule were handed over. I pray it would not happen here. Africa is not a good example. But then again some of us is everlasting optimists
AcidRaZor
27-09-2005, 06:37 PM
I prefer not to pass judgement based entirely on text on the net that doesn't even have an author's name attached - especially with issues concerning race etc - it is all too easy for statements to be taken out of context and moulded into something totally different, but I will say that the tone of the quoted statements
[e.g. use of words that highlight & create division "They" and "blacks" instead of say 'black people' - we are all people regardless of skin colour]
does leave me with the impression that TAU SA has not come to terms with the new SA, I do however think it must be very difficult to run a farm these days, but maybe TAU SA should reflect on how old SA their statements sound [assuming they were not misquoted]...
If I wanted to write for a newspaper, or be politically correct, I'll go do that when I have the time to write something in the correct way.
I'd even use the proper grammar and spelling and look up my words.
I am NOT a word smith and I don't care
If I sounded racist, it's because I am, but I'm against white people too. there's a thing I call respect. Respect for others and their individual property. If you show me disrespect, I'll call you a <censored /> regardless of your skin colour.
Period dot com forward slash, that is how it is and will always be
bb_matt
27-09-2005, 06:38 PM
The questions ?
What does mining do to the environment ?
What does our modern civilisation do to the environment ?
Who were enslaved to build much of the African infrastructure designed and planned by white colonialists ?
It's foolhardy to paint these complex issues with such a large brush and so few colours.
The reality is far more complex.
For instance, the white colonialists really did rip Africa into shreds, creating borders, enslaving black people, teaching them the wicked ways of the west and then they buggered off, leaving Africa in a shambles.
We'll never know what much of sub-saharan africa was like before the white man arrived as the history isn't well documented and many of the people lived a nomadic existance. Slave trade also blighted africa long before the whites arrived, the persians for instance.
It's a big picture and a big dark continent with many secrets.
These farmers are being very silly with these bold statements.
MikeNoble
27-09-2005, 06:39 PM
Dont get me wrong, most of the stuff the government is doing now is really short sighted, i just wish they could understand more of what they were doing, but they dont seem to be. Yes there were some (small) positives among all the "taking" from the arrival of the white man, but no one can claim these were the intentions of the colonial powers, I just cant believe what the WHITE farmers group is claiming, it really is silly and sad that they actually believe that.
MikeNoble
27-09-2005, 06:47 PM
Who were enslaved to build much of the African infrastructure designed and planned by white colonialists ?
Good point, who are the majority STILL "enslaved", surely not those white farmers, as bb_matt said it really is a complex issue!
kingmonty
27-09-2005, 06:49 PM
comfortably waits for tibby's comments....
AcidRaZor
27-09-2005, 06:50 PM
i like jello
antowan
27-09-2005, 06:50 PM
OMG, are they being serious? White people (the colonialists) raped africa, full stop. And yes I am white.
Not the ones who settled. You have to distinguish between settlers and colonists.
The one came to live the other to advantage the motherland.
Ekhaatvensters
27-09-2005, 06:52 PM
What they say is unfortuanetly rather true, but it is obvious that they take a rather racist stance on the whole issue.
However I disagree with the way that they put down an "African" way of life (I am also white), but saying that blacks can now live decent lives thanks to the work of whites, as if Africans cant live decently and that is a priviledge reserved for whites. This is going to cause upset among many people, especially as this is a white farmers organization, pretty tipical racist, Boer stereotype that they will just be pushing more and more with African people.
MikeNoble
27-09-2005, 06:54 PM
Not the ones who settled. You have to distinguish between settlers and colonists.
The one came to live the other to advantage the motherland.
I duno, pure opinion on my side, i would have assumed the settlers would have come here to make a better life for THEMSELVES, so to me it's still take take take. As i say just my opinion, imagine how cool it would be if the former colonial powers finally acknowledged their mistake and sorted out africa (i know easier said than done), but wouldnt that be nice. We can all dream.
antowan
27-09-2005, 06:54 PM
It is an interesting theory that needs some exploration. Where would SA be had foreigners not arrived? Perhaps a better question would be: Would SAfricans have been happier today had foreigners not settled here?
I think people might well have been happier living straight off the land in a less developed environment. God knows I sometimes wish we had a more simple existence today...
I would probably be in Europe today if my people did not come here, but knowing what I know today I would miss SA terribly. :)
MikeNoble
27-09-2005, 06:57 PM
The thing for me is comments from a white farming group, how typical. Apart from it being complete nonsense, being white and saying this takes all their credibility away, really did they think about what they were saying
Chris
27-09-2005, 07:02 PM
Hmm...well they [farmers = mostly boers] take far too much credit for introducing "civilization" - in fact most of the Western traites were from the British.
The Boers hated the British [Western] way of life.
tibby.dude
27-09-2005, 07:03 PM
Heck leave it to the Transvaal Agricultural Union (the old name is a dead giveaway about their verkrampte membership) would come up with such a dumb retarded statement.
They just did untold damage to the image of white farmers.
MikeNoble
27-09-2005, 07:05 PM
Heck leave it to the Transvaal Agricultural Union (the old name is a dead giveaway about their verkrampte membership) would come up with such a dumb retarded statement.
They just did untold damage to the image of white farmers.
Couldn't agree more! It's actually funny, that they are being serious and believe it themselves! Really how thick can you get.
bb_matt
27-09-2005, 07:09 PM
Yeah, it was a dumb thing to say, about as dumb as some of the things our various ministers say.
*sigh*
Fact is, 95% of the population, as always, just want to live in peace and work and play hard.
It's always the other 5% who f@ck it up for us.
It is an interesting theory that needs some exploration. Where would SA be had foreigners not arrived? Perhaps a better question would be: Would SAfricans have been happier today had foreigners not settled here?
I think people might well have been happier living straight off the land in a less developed environment. God knows I sometimes wish we had a more simple existence today...
I would probably be in Europe today if my people did not come here, but knowing what I know today I would miss SA terribly. :)
Maybe we would have had better, faster, cheaper broadband Hehe
MikeNoble
27-09-2005, 07:20 PM
LOL @ Pupa
Whites 'advantaged' blacks (http://www.fin24.co.za/articles/default/display_article.asp?Nav=ns&ArticleID=1518-25_1807353)
Sep 27 2005 05:44:03:160PM
Yes, just like always as soon as a whitie says something that you don’t like you will preach it from the highest mountain, brown nosing is not a new concept
MikeNoble
27-09-2005, 08:37 PM
Yes, just like always as soon as a whitie says something that you don’t like you will preach it from the highest mountain, brown nosing is not a new concept
I'm glad that it was posted as it is totally insane what those "Whities" are saying, if anyone believes what they said then you must seek help immediately, or talk to someone about it, really.
AcidRaZor
27-09-2005, 08:38 PM
just btb, my uncle owns a big chunk of earth. he's busted his balls for what he has today by hard work and sweat (and sometimes surviving only on his family)
I can't seriously see why people would just want (and probably get) for nothing when someone has worked his whole life to build something from nothing just so his kids can have something.
What they say is unfortuanetly rather true, but it is obvious that they take a rather racist stance on the whole issue.
However I disagree with the way that they put down an "African" way of life (I am also white), but saying that blacks can now live decent lives thanks to the work of whites, as if Africans cant live decently and that is a priviledge reserved for whites. This is going to cause upset among many people, especially as this is a white farmers organization, pretty tipical racist, Boer stereotype that they will just be pushing more and more with African people.
Why don’t you say what you mean, that the whit farmers or Boers and for that mater al the whites that have any connection to the farming community should just get the f$vk out of the country, do you also refer to them as mugabe does as white thrash
This forum should be white farmer bashing, because god knows if we say ANYTHING that can be construed as black bashing the tread will surly get locked down, comments like this should be posted in the news papers so that everyone can read what is being said on myadsl concerning the white farmers, and how people feel about them.
MikeNoble
27-09-2005, 09:00 PM
LOL, lets not generalise by saying white farmers, the TAU just said something silly and irrational and they should know that.
Peapod
27-09-2005, 09:03 PM
Question is would the Original inhabitants of the land (probably actually the San or Khoi-San) prefer to still be living in the stone/iron-age not having technology to mine the minerals taken by those damn colonialist rapists...
actually i think they might actually like to live where they once did - not in the middle of the sodding kalahari desert. they were hunted like vermin by farmers and exiled.
Colonialism.
"Foreign rule imposed upon a group of people, such as the European domination of much of Africa. Current usage of the term applies the idea to situations where one country's economics and/or culture is heavily influenced by another country, such as when people refer to the worldwide proliferation of McDonald's and Coca-Cola as American cultural imperialism."
"forced change in which one culture, society, or nation dominates another".
"The establishment of government/sovereign rule in a foreign territory over an alien people. It was practiced by the European states such as Britain, France, the Netherlands, Spain and Portugal in Africa, Asia and Australasia/Oceania".
"Colonialism is sovereignity over territory and people outside its own boundaries, often to facilitate economic domination over their resources, labor, and often markets. The term also refers to a set of beliefs used to legitimize or promote this system, especially the belief that the mores of the colonizer are superior to those of the colonized"
"exploitation by a stronger country of weaker one; the use of the weaker country's resources to strengthen and enrich the stronger country"
Etc, etc.
The problem I have with the term Colonialism is that it is an outdated term.
Colonialism was, as in past tense.
Now we have a democracy so I read and am told.
For someone to step up to me in public and say I am a Colonialist Pig and I should return to my native country is actually virtually impossible for me to do.
I like many "white" South Africans don't even know what our Native country is and for all intent and purposes I could be a descendent of a slave or a Khoi or San from 200 or 330 years ago?
Professor Heese told the Afrikaner Nation that if your family has been in South Africa for more than a hundred years you probably have some form of 'mixed" ancestry.
Much to the shock of the Afrikaners at the time.
The truth be told, Heese was correct.
Note: even former President F W de Klerk apparently notes in his autobiography that he himself has an Indian ancestor.
RichardP
27-09-2005, 09:34 PM
If it was rape now it is Gang Raping LOL ..............
I'am also white and respect Mandella
The point is that the countries declined AFTER the rule were handed over. I pray it would not happen here. Africa is not a good example. But then again some of us is everlasting optimists
If some chaps would travel to the Congo, or Ivroy coast - you will see first hand how severe the decline was. It all goes back to which political party took over and how much buy-in this party has from the public. Most of the countries that have not been sucessful due to the locals fighting with each other on who should rule the country.
i spent a quite a while working in those countries.... and I promise you - SA is an AWESOME country (even with all the problems) and I have faith that it wont go down the tubes.
Richard
kingmonty
27-09-2005, 09:36 PM
*sigh*
I have chatted with many black people about various issues, and many are of the opinion that things were better for them before '94..
I have no opinion on this matter tho.. politics is not my game, will leave that stuff for the clever ppl, or those who are willing to put their head on the chopping block :)
MikeNoble
27-09-2005, 10:23 PM
I have no opinion on this matter tho.. politics is not my game, will leave that stuff for the clever ppl
Sometimes i wonder if in fact those doing the politics thing are so clever, definately with regards to DoC :D
Sometimes i wonder if in fact those doing the politics thing are so clever, definately with regards to DoC :D
The Dept. of Confusion? hmmmmm..
Clarkey
27-09-2005, 10:41 PM
It was a botch up. Colonisers rushed into Africa asa fast as they could, colonies were all the rage. No body thought about the natives living there already. Then, when the time came for everyone to hand over their colonies, the 'natives' had no idea how to govern the countries. There was not a single bit of forethought in the whole thing.
But remember, in your busy life when your rushing between meetings or up late again studying so you don't fail the next test, remember that the simple life is the good life. Blacks were happy before the whites showed up and gave them 'gifts' of modern society. In my humble opinion, they should have left them like that. It would have been better for all of us.
Drusky
27-09-2005, 11:08 PM
they were hunted like vermin by farmers and exiled.
Too true. The original inhabitants of this land were hunted like vermin by Bantu and European.
The stronger, more advanced pastoral Bantu people moved down from the North forcing out the little yellow-brown folk. Pressure from the South came in the form of stronger, more advanced European traders and farmers.
Yes it's tragic, but this type of thing has been happening all over the world for ages.
craigsa
27-09-2005, 11:12 PM
I have chatted with many black people about various issues, and many are of the opinion that things were better for them before '94..
I have no opinion on this matter tho.. politics is not my game, will leave that stuff for the clever ppl, or those who are willing to put their head on the chopping block :)
Have had the same conversation with many blacks in the cps and out of the cops. They are just as unhappy as we are however they will continur to vote for ANC as they feel they have to.
ettubrute
28-09-2005, 01:13 AM
There are white, black, purple and other races here.:eek: Who mangled these people?
Decotey
28-09-2005, 01:48 AM
I agree with this article 100%
/me pulls virtual zap at all you haters
nOhIwAy
28-09-2005, 03:26 AM
Actually they quite correct, for the wrong reasons.
Some time ago a well-read and learned black fella proved
that the cradle of mankind was in Africa.
It was black africans who long, long time ago colonised Europe
and due to climatic conditions paled somewhat.
That's why blacks should be thankful for the goodies they got, cause
they got it from their own kind - somewhat paled in time.
History, properly interpreted, can clarify a lot of misunderstanding.
stoke
28-09-2005, 05:52 AM
I was robbed - blind - nothing left. Even the oven was gone and haf the wiring ripped out of the house.
The fingerprints left behind identified 2 people.
I lost the house and my car because I could not afford to replace my stuff and pay both off, loss of the car resulted in loss of the job.
Ended up living in a backpackers lodge for 9 months, working as waiter + barman + barman (3 jobs).
When is governmint going to undo that injustice for me ?
I want my land and car back - it was stolen from me.
Surely mine is a more legitimate claim than theirs ?
DigitalSoldier
28-09-2005, 08:55 AM
The irony of this country at the start of the year a lot of blacks striked at tuks and said one bullet one white and why they have to pay money to redo a test after they failed it, the story was in every paper on most online news sites yet it didnt get this much attention from the public now the whites say something and all whites(on this forum ) blame themself for this country's fsckup. Sure we helped with it :P but like mad said a lot of blacks have said they liked the country better before 1994 and I doubt most blacks would wanne go back to the way things were now that they can have a black lable :P
tibby.dude
28-09-2005, 09:38 AM
The irony of this country at the start of the year a lot of blacks striked at tuks and said one bullet one white and why they have to pay money to redo a test after they failed it, the story was in every paper on most online news sites yet it didnt get this much attention from the public now the whites say something and all whites(on this forum ) blame themself for this country's fsckup. Sure we helped with it :P but like mad said a lot of blacks have said they liked the country better before 1994 and I doubt most blacks would wanne go back to the way things were now that they can have a black lable :P
Agggh ... what poor grammar, sentence construction and your spelling.
I think blacks are the least of your worries.
justinct
28-09-2005, 09:45 AM
... tibby, always trying to avoid the content...
tibby.dude
28-09-2005, 09:52 AM
... tibby, always trying to avoid the content...
It is called sarcasm ... look it up sometime.
justinct
28-09-2005, 09:55 AM
Serious?
At the moment the previously disadvantaged are the currently disadvantaged as well.
No question about that.
Only change? A handful of black elitists have struck it rich in the BEE honeypot. Those lower down are still down, and infinite greed higher up will prevent those lower down from ever reaching anything higher.
I was saddened the other day when I saw a very old black man (he was probably over 60, easy) - pedalling an ice cream bicycle in rush hour traffic. He has no hopes of getting a car.. or nice clothes.. or a nice house.. or probably even a wholesome McDonald's meal. He has no prospects and most likely nothing to look forward to when he goes home.. a rickety tin shack which falls over when the South Easter blows, or floats away in winter? A wife who also has a crumby job? A few kids who are hungry when they get home and there's nothing to eat?
And what matters is that time is ticking along for him and everyone else like him. Pension? lol. He will have to work until the day he dies. And so will millions of others in a similar situation in this wonderful country of ours, because as everyone can plainly see, Government is doing bugger all about anything that matters, except changing names of cities and ordering new planes.
What Government is creating is not life, that which is described above is not life, it's a dull, slow motion stumble through the motions of living. But it could have been life if he had a decent job and prospects for the future, it could have been life if gov did what they said they would.
How can they accept that their people live a life that is what it is, and isn't nearly what it could be - the people in Gov are living the high life with not a worry in the world except for when the Scorpions are gonna bust them wide open. Other than that, they most likely drive past the squatter camps talking on their cellphones organising the holiday in Mauritius, and not even glimpsing at the insane levels of poverty flashing past them. Nice life.. for some.
To be a farmer in this country is madness. You live in constant fear of being murdered, or returning home and finding your family murdered. The government doesn't care enough to help, and you wonder if somebody will claim your land as their own, although this person does not have a clue about farming, or growing anything in large scale. Nevermind the science behind farming, soil preperation, etc.
Then there is the constant news about how racist the farmers are, if can believe the news?
And to top it all of, you are part of a union that make stupid statements, that build on the stigma around farmers.
A farmer just can’t win …
Many farmers have mailed Hellkom and said that Telkom refuses to provide them with a phone line, and there is no cell coverage and satellite phones are very expensive, so they are stuck without communication - makes one think............................................. .
Young whites 'lose out twice' (http://www.fin24.co.za/articles/default/display_article.asp?Nav=ns&ArticleID=1518-25_1947562)
"for every one professional leaving the country in the large-scale exodus of highly skilled South Africans to other parts of the globe, at least eight job opportunities are lost."
And..
'Abolish affirmative action for born-frees' (http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20060608013255846C350996)
Now that this thread is resurrected Mods just look at the posts and compare that with the recent deleted ones. Is their a sudden shift here? The ANC race zealots are getting their way it seems! (Trolling again nê)
Edit: PS. Well a good report anyway, Only a certain group will dissagree as they cover the range from 1652 to today. They want to return to the beginning, not that it would make any difference in what they are today anyway! They want the settlers gone or integrated (cross breeding)!
bwana
08-06-2006, 09:39 AM
Now that this thread is resurrected Mods just look at the posts and compare that with the recent deleted ones. Is their a sudden shift here? The ANC race zealots are getting their way it seems! (Trolling again nê)Obviously if a mod can raise (and subsequently resurrect) possibly contentious issues then anyone should be able to - hypocrisy sucks.
Obviously if a mod can raise (and subsequently resurrect) possibly contentious issues then anyone should be able to - hypocrisy sucks.
Sorry Guys.
Didn't mean to resurrect a "controversial" thread.
Haven't been following this particular thread. :)
Just thought the link was pertinent to the topic.
Seems I put my foot in it. :D
bwana
08-06-2006, 10:09 AM
As far as I'm concerned there's no need to apologise - contentious issues are great as long as the debate is constructive/productive. :)
As far as I'm concerned there's no need to apologise - contentious issues are great as long as the debate is constructive/productive. :)
Thank you Bwana v.12 :)
Looking at the two links above on Post #54, perhaps we could rather put them into a new thread to debate.
The second link looks interesting.
However people born before 1990 are going to be side-lined?
My daughter was born in 1988 and she is doing Matric this year.
This would be unfair to present school leavers like her.
Maximus
08-06-2006, 10:30 AM
At the moment the previously disadvantaged are the currently disadvantaged as well.
No question about that.
Only change? A handful of black elitists have struck it rich in the BEE honeypot. Those lower down are still down, and infinite greed higher up will prevent those lower down from ever reaching anything higher.
I was saddened the other day when I saw a very old black man (he was probably over 60, easy) - pedalling an ice cream bicycle in rush hour traffic. He has no hopes of getting a car.. or nice clothes.. or a nice house.. or probably even a wholesome McDonald's meal. He has no prospects and most likely nothing to look forward to when he goes home.. a rickety tin shack which falls over when the South Easter blows, or floats away in winter? A wife who also has a crumby job? A few kids who are hungry when they get home and there's nothing to eat?
And what matters is that time is ticking along for him and everyone else like him. Pension? lol. He will have to work until the day he dies. And so will millions of others in a similar situation in this wonderful country of ours, because as everyone can plainly see, Government is doing bugger all about anything that matters, except changing names of cities and ordering new planes.
What Government is creating is not life, that which is described above is not life, it's a dull, slow motion stumble through the motions of living. But it could have been life if he had a decent job and prospects for the future, it could have been life if gov did what they said they would.
How can they accept that their people live a life that is what it is, and isn't nearly what it could be - the people in Gov are living the high life with not a worry in the world except for when the Scorpions are gonna bust them wide open. Other than that, they most likely drive past the squatter camps talking on their cellphones organising the holiday in Mauritius, and not even glimpsing at the insane levels of poverty flashing past them. Nice life.. for some.
Well said MaD. The crucks of the matter is that everyone will always carry on fighting about the past while people suffer without food and shelter today. Whatever the colonists did brought both good and bad to the continent. Who the hell knows what would've been different if they didn't arrive in the first place? My personal oppinion is that things probably would've been worse off, disease and sickness would've probably ruled the day due to uncrontrollable and unmonitored over population. If any civilization grows, it needs to plan ahead, something the ancient cultures were not great at. If this doesn't happen you are steering towards an economic disaster, whether you are trading on the stock market or with cows and sheep. You have to cultivate the land, you have to progress in medical technology if your country's population is growing. However, all that said, it's really sad the Africa was colonized by Europians so that their offspring (us) now have to carry the blame for everything bad that happens in this continent. We are all just trying to make a living, and our current government is not helping much, enriching themselves and corrupting as they go along. Maybe in 200 years, if there are any white people left here we can turn back and blame them again for the poor state of affairs!? But what would it help, what can be done NOW, and what is being done NOW?
bwana
08-06-2006, 10:35 AM
Thank you Bwana v.12 :)
Looking at the two links above on Post #54, perhaps we could rather put them into a new thread to debate.
The second link looks interesting.
However people born before 1990 are going to be side-lined?
My daughter was born in 1988 and she is doing Matric this year.
This would be unfair to present school leavers like her.I've resigned myself to the fact that I'll probably never be anything other than self employed whilst I remain here in SA. Hopefully they'll have toned down AA by the time my daughter is looking for a job a couple of decades from now. Otherwise she can always make use of her other two citizenships and look for greener pastures.
Eventually someone - perhaps the constitutional court - is going to realise as noble as the idea was AA is by its very nature discriminatory and the rights of minorities need to be protected.
The blame game only works while those who really are to blame are still alive. My children shouldn't be held accountable for something they had nothing to do with.
AntiThesis
08-06-2006, 10:36 AM
I agree that you can have debates about anything at all. The problem only occurs when the arguments are no longer rational but persistently flaming.
I'm not sure that there's a solutiont to South Africa's present set of problems. At least, not a solution that people are likely to want. IMO the core of our problem is expediency and lack of self-control. Colonists (and yes, I do differentiate between them and settlers) came to Africa and decided they were going to go for the "easy" solution of enslaving the population and generally behaving like pompous asses.
To fix this problem our dear democratic govt. decided to go the "easy" route and switch over to BEE. BEE in itself is fine, affirmitive action is fine at least in principal. The problem comes in when it's done simply to get better figures (Comanies boast that they now have 20 black employees ) and without proper training.
icyrus
08-06-2006, 11:05 AM
Thank you Bwana v.12 :)
Looking at the two links above on Post #54, perhaps we could rather put them into a new thread to debate.
The second link looks interesting.
However people born before 1990 are going to be side-lined?
My daughter was born in 1988 and she is doing Matric this year.
This would be unfair to present school leavers like her.
As far as I'm concerned anyone who was to young to vote during apartheid should not be discriminated against now.
Although I believe AA and BEE are terrible mistakes that will put SA further back, I'm realistic.