Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving US military red-faced

Geriatrix

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ercise-leaving-military-chiefs-red-faced.html
When the U.S. Navy deploys a battle fleet on exercises, it takes the security of its aircraft carriers very seriously indeed.

At least a dozen warships provide a physical guard while the technical wizardry of the world's only military superpower offers an invisible shield to detect and deter any intruders.

That is the theory. Or, rather, was the theory.

Uninvited guest: A Chinese Song Class submarine, like the one that sufaced by the U.S.S. Kitty Hawk

American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier with 4,500 personnel on board.

By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for launching torpedoes or missiles at the carrier.

According to senior Nato officials the incident caused consternation in the U.S. Navy.

The Americans had no idea China's fast-growing submarine fleet had reached such a level of sophistication, or that it posed such a threat.

One Nato figure said the effect was "as big a shock as the Russians launching Sputnik" - a reference to the Soviet Union's first orbiting satellite in 1957 which marked the start of the space age.

The incident, which took place in the ocean between southern Japan and Taiwan, is a major embarrassment for the Pentagon.

The lone Chinese vessel slipped past at least a dozen other American warships which were supposed to protect the carrier from hostile aircraft or submarines.

And the rest of the costly defensive screen, which usually includes at least two U.S. submarines, was also apparently unable to detect it.

According to the Nato source, the encounter has forced a serious re-think of American and Nato naval strategy as commanders reconsider the level of threat from potentially hostile Chinese submarines.

It also led to tense diplomatic exchanges, with shaken American diplomats demanding to know why the submarine was "shadowing" the U.S. fleet while Beijing pleaded ignorance and dismissed the affair as coincidence.

Analysts believe Beijing was sending a message to America and the West demonstrating its rapidly-growing military capability to threaten foreign powers which try to interfere in its "backyard".

The People's Liberation Army Navy's submarine fleet includes at least two nuclear-missile launching vessels.

Its 13 Song Class submarines are extremely quiet and difficult to detect when running on electric motors.

Commodore Stephen Saunders, editor of Jane's Fighting Ships, and a former Royal Navy anti-submarine specialist, said the U.S. had paid relatively little attention to this form of warfare since the end of the Cold War.

He said: "It was certainly a wake-up call for the Americans.

"It would tie in with what we see the Chinese trying to do, which appears to be to deter the Americans from interfering or operating in their backyard, particularly in relation to Taiwan."

In January China carried a successful missile test, shooting down a satellite in orbit for the first time.

I know its from the dailymail just found it interesting. Are there any serious news agencies reporting on this?
 
Not bright giving away their advantage :o
 
During the Cold War, the Soviet Union turned to a sea-denial strategy concentrating on submarines, naval mines and the AShM. One of the first products of the decision was the SS-N-2 Styx missile. Further products were to follow, and they were soon loaded on to the Soviet Air Force's Tu-95 Bear and Tu-22 Blinder bombers, in the case of the air-launched KS-1 Komet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-ship_missile

Cool chinese sub :D
 
Well, no suprise there. The Chinese/Japs are having the biggest brains around and the highest intelligence we know of. Just look at the number of sience papers they lately author or co-author. Although the chinese population in the States is very small, their presence in all sience fields is undeniable . . . I am very much interested in 2 subjects: Political sience and maths. While the first can be 'absorbed' by any Dick,Tom and Harry, the second, either you have it or you don't :D
 
Not bright giving away their advantage :o

This. I'm also quite sure that by now the USA is far more capable of detecting the Chinese subs, diesels may be quiet but they are not undetectable. In particular, the new sonar equipment on the US Virginia-class attack subs is far advanced compared to the 1970s-era Los Angeles boats they're replacing (and I'm certain the subs in the American picket were Los Angeles-class since at the time of this incident, only a total of 2 Virginia subs had been commissioned). Furthermore, the Chinese sub got lucky; if it had been moving the picket would certainly have detected it, my guess is it was sitting stationary just waiting for the US fleet to arrive. If it had decided to launch torpedos, it would have immediately been detected and fired upon because there is nothing more distinctive than the sound of seawater rushing into torpedo tubes that have just been opened.

According to Wikipedia, the Chinese vessel got within 9km of the Kitty Hawk. Even assuming the sub managed to fire a full volley of 6 torpedos before being destroyed, the maximum range of the torpedos carried by the Song-class is 18km, and they're based on old and unreliable Russian designs. Some of the torps would have struck the carrier, but I doubt the damage would have been enough to actually sink her.

In conclusion, a storm in a teacup. That Song sub was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and was very lucky that the US Navy is disciplined enough to refrain from blowing it out of the water.
 
That Song sub was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and was very lucky that the US Navy is disciplined enough to refrain from blowing it out of the water.

Yadda,yadda. Embarrassed red faces must be disguised as choleric anger and military ‘face’ saved. Weak!
 
This. I'm also quite sure that by now the USA is far more capable of detecting the Chinese subs, diesels may be quiet but they are not undetectable. In particular, the new sonar equipment on the US Virginia-class attack subs is far advanced compared to the 1970s-era Los Angeles boats they're replacing (and I'm certain the subs in the American picket were Los Angeles-class since at the time of this incident, only a total of 2 Virginia subs had been commissioned). Furthermore, the Chinese sub got lucky; if it had been moving the picket would certainly have detected it, my guess is it was sitting stationary just waiting for the US fleet to arrive. If it had decided to launch torpedos, it would have immediately been detected and fired upon because there is nothing more distinctive than the sound of seawater rushing into torpedo tubes that have just been opened.

According to Wikipedia, the Chinese vessel got within 9km of the Kitty Hawk. Even assuming the sub managed to fire a full volley of 6 torpedos before being destroyed, the maximum range of the torpedos carried by the Song-class is 18km, and they're based on old and unreliable Russian designs. Some of the torps would have struck the carrier, but I doubt the damage would have been enough to actually sink her.

In conclusion, a storm in a teacup. That Song sub was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and was very lucky that the US Navy is disciplined enough to refrain from blowing it out of the water.

Well they're not at war, so they have to abide by certain rules unless they intend on starting one. What the US navy does is to ask all vessels and aircraft to keep a distance so there is no mistaken intent.
 
I want china to invade the US, then we can have real life fallout :D
 
I want china to invade the US, then we can have real life fallout :D

The Chinese had best start teaching that huge army to swim really well in that case, given they've got basically zero sea lift capability :p
 
Yadda,yadda. Embarrassed red faces must be disguised as choleric anger and military ‘face’ saved. Weak!

Embarrasment doesn't sink ships or win wars, and I stand by my analysis. The Chinese sub may have been an unwelcome surprise, but it was not very much of a threat.
 
A sub running on its batteries is quieter than a nuclear sub. SSN's need to keep pumps working to cool their reactors, whilst subs on batteries have no 'engine' noise so to speak.

Assuming it was below a thermal layer or two its absolutely feasible that the Song could have approached the carrier undetected.
Whilst flooding tubes are distinctive, completing the torpedo evolution before commencing the attack would have eliminated the problem.

Unless the US were using active sonar, which I doubt since that would give away the positions of their submarine screen, there is a good probability that the Song could've approached undetected.

Would it have survived? Not likely, but I doubt the carrier would have either. the Song can fire tubes in tandem, and has six forward tubes.

The chinese would gladly sacrifice a single sub for the chance to sink a carrier. And in that case would have sent more than one.
 
So what? How do we know for certain that the Americans didn't know the sub was there? Should they have shot at it? They're not at war with China so I don't think they care what their subs do...
 
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