'Goldstone was bullied into recanting'

Fader4

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Judge Richard Goldstone's partial recantation of a United Nations-sponsored report on Israel's invasion of Gaza has predicatably divided the local Jewish community, with a prominent anti-Zionist academic insisting that the judge was bullied and a Zionist spokesperson describing it as "a victory".

Goldstone, a former South African Constitutional Court judge, chaired the UN panel whose report accused both the Israeli Defence Force and the Paletinian movement Hamas of committing war crimes during "Operation Cast Lead".

In a comment piece for the Washington Post last Friday, he recanted the September 2009 report's finding that the IDF intentionally targeted civilians during the invasion which began in December 2008. "If I had known then what I know now, the Goldstone Report would have been a different document," he said.

About 1 400 Palestinians, at least half of them civilians, were killed in the operation, which was launched in response to rise in roacket attacks from Gaza. Some 7 000 civilians were injured, and more than 4 000 houses were destroyed, together with much of Gaza's infrastructure and buildings. Israel lost 10 soldiers, while three civilians were killed by Hamas rockets.

Goldstone blamed Israel's refusal to cooperate with the inquiry for what he deemed inaccuracies in the report.

But University of Johannesburg research professor and political analyst Steven Friedman said that "for an internationally respected judge, Goldstone's arguments are laughable. I should imagine that the pressure on him (from the Jewish community) became untenable".

In his article Goldstone had accepted an Israeli investigation finding that the shelling of a Gaza home, in which an entire Palestinian family of 29 was killed, was the result of an IDF commander's erroneous interpretation of a drone image. The officer is under investigation for having ordered the attack.

"It's a ridiculous argument," Friedman said. "One assumes that Goldstone is doing this because of intense bullying."

Friedman said he has personally experienced the pressure that the Jewish community can bring on dissenting members.

Former anti-apartheid judge Goldstone, 72 this year, is an active member of the local Jewish community. Yet he was almost barred from attending his grandson's bar mitzvah last year because of threats of protests should he appear. The threats were withdrawn and he attended, under heavy guard and in a hostile atmosphere.

Zev Krengel, chairperson of the South African Jewish Board of Deputies, denied the charges of bullying. "After the bar mitzvah he was questioned, but this was done in a very professional way, in discussions about the report. There was no pressure whatsoever," said Krengel.

However, in an interview with Israeli website Ynetnews, Zev's brother Avrom Krengel, chairperson of the South African Zionist Federation, said the Jewish lobby in South Africa had played a role on Goldstone's confession, "We met him about a year ago, and during the meeting he insisted on his stance. We, on the other hand, told him why we were angry with him," he said.

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"He suffered greatly, especially in the city he comes from. We took sides against him, and it encourages us to know that our way had an effect against the international pressure and made him admit and regret his remarks."

Friedman noted that the community had not welcomed Goldstone back. "The irony here is that he's not even getting what he wanted," said Friedman. "They seem to be baying for his blood, asking him to grovel, or fall on his sword."

Israeli media responded to Goldstone's article with a mixture of jubilation and anger, with one writer noting that Goldstone "is undeserving of either forgiveness or mercy".

Zev Krengel, who was in Israel when he spoke to the M&G, said that the tone in the Israeli media was not gloating, but one of vindication. "But the report has done so much harm already. So it's a subdued victory… a hollow victory, you could say."

He said there were hopes that Goldstone, who has stopped granting interviews to the media, would say more and formally repudiate the report.

"From our point of view it would be a true victory if he totally repudiates the entire process of how it was done," he said, who insisted that while the Israeli army was committed to harming as few civilians as possible.

"There would never have been any Gaza deaths if Hamas did not start the bombing," he said.

http://mg.co.za/article/2011-04-07-goldstone-was-bullied-into-recanting

Its clear that none of the Zionists celebrating Goldstones feeble attempt at a whitewash has even read the report in question, pity it seems he is caving under pressure, what despicable tactics by the Sa Jewish community, clearly some people would sacrifice the truth and freedom of speech on the alter of zionism.
 
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Ah shame he was "bullied" and they still won't welcome him back. That's so nasty of them

Cry me a river.
 
Ah shame he was "bullied" and they still won't welcome him back. That's so nasty of them

Cry me a river.

he will have to grovel and lick some serious zionist boots.... even that probably wont be enough.
 
http://mg.co.za/article/2011-04-07-goldstone-was-bullied-into-recanting

Its clear that none of the Zionists celebrating Goldstones feeble attempt at a whitewash has even read the report in question, pity it seems he is caving under pressure, what despicable tactics by the Sa Jewish community, clearly some people would sacrifice the truth and freedom of speech on the alter of zionism.

From your same article
"It's a ridiculous argument," Friedman said. "One assumes that Goldstone is doing this because of intense bullying."
Just that word alone tells you all you need to know about this thread.
 
From your same article

Just that word alone tells you all you need to know about this thread.

read the whole article, not just the parts that support your distorted views :rolleyes:

Avrom Krengel, chairperson of the South African Zionist Federation, said the Jewish lobby in South Africa had played a role on Goldstone's confession

He suffered greatly, especially in the city he comes from. We took sides against him, and it encourages us to know that our way had an effect against the international pressure and made him admit and regret his remarks

just that quote alone tells you all you need to know about these disgusting zionist tactics.
 
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read the whole article





just that quote alone tells you all you need to know about zionist tactics.

Not really, he knew exactly what he was doing when he published the report, and he knew exactly what he was doing when he published his op-ed.

Nothing wrong with a bit on him into admitting he was wrong, if it was water boarding forcing him to lie it would be a different story. Some people need a push to admit their mistakes..

If anything he is probably disliked even more in the Jewish community now, because he's now admitting to what everyone's been saying and known all along, but the damage is done

"Zionist tactics".. dude, if it was islamist tactics, he'd be dead
 
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Not really, he knew exactly what he was doing when he published the report, and he knew exactly what he was doing when he published his op-ed.

If anything he is probably disliked even more in the Jewish community now, because he's now admitting to what everyone's been saying and known all along, but the damage is done

"Zionist tactics".. dude, if it was islamist tactics, he'd be dead

why do you feel the need to bring Islam into this? this has nothing to do with Islam at all and if it is your intention to do your usual Muslim bashing troll routine there are many other threads where you and the other local trolls can do so, the fact remains that it is despicable to bully someone simply because you disagree with them, childish playground stuff.
 
why do you feel the need to bring Islam into this? this has nothing to do with Islam at all and if it is your intention to do your usual Muslim bashing troll routine there are many other threads where you and the other local trolls can do so, the fact remains that it is despicable to bully someone simply because you disagree with them, childish playground stuff.

Yes shame, it's horrible when the other kids don't let you into the sandpit

Btw, my 'usual muslim bashing troll routine' care to cite an example?
 
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Zev Krengel, chairperson of the South African Jewish Board of Deputies, denied the charges of bullying. "After the bar mitzvah he was questioned, but this was done in a very professional way, in discussions about the report. There was no pressure whatsoever," said Krengel.

Sounds like pressure to me.
 
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http://mg.co.za/article/2011-04-07-goldstone-was-bullied-into-recanting

Its clear that none of the Zionists celebrating Goldstones feeble attempt at a whitewash has even read the report in question, pity it seems he is caving under pressure, what despicable tactics by the Sa Jewish community, clearly some people would sacrifice the truth and freedom of speech on the alter of zionism.

All that is apparent is a desperate grasping as straws.

Goldstone isn't some bullied school child trying to appease his tormentors, he's a respected jurist who is unafraid to offer an unpopular opinion.
 
All that is apparent is a desperate grasping as straws.

Goldstone isn't some bullied school child trying to appease his tormentors, he's a respected jurist who is unafraid to offer an unpopular opinion.

hahahahahahah
lol read the article again pls
 
hahahahahahah
lol read the article again pls
The article is an opinion piece by someone who detests Israel and wants to discredit Goldstone's update. It's not gospel. The man has shown many many times he can't be intimidated by governments or Zionists ... do you remember how he was reviled after the Report, yet he refused to be cowed?

When you can't find fault with the findings, you find fault with the man. Childish.
 
The article is an opinion piece by someone who detests Israel and wants to discredit Goldstone's update. It's not gospel. The man has shown many many times he can't be intimidated by governments or Zionists ... do you remember how he was reviled after the Report, yet he refused to be cowed?

When you can't find fault with the findings, you find fault with the man. Childish.

I never found fault with the man, I just agree with the opinion that he was bullied into recanting, as u said u refused to cowed, that is he refused to cower until they made his life a living hell, A reall shame in my opinion
 
Sorry but anything coming out of UJ is complete crap these days, was Friedman pressured by Habib? Same thing. :rolleyes:
Friedman is a known anti- Zionist so he should be careful what he writes on this subject without having facts.
Pathetic journalism and pathetic comments.
 
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I never found fault with the man, I just agree with the opinion that he was bullied into recanting, as u said u refused to cowed, that is he refused to cower until they made his life a living hell, A reall shame in my opinion

Other than the unpleasantness surrounding the Bar Mitvah, which he attended in the end regardless, there's very little detail. Do you have anything beyond an assumption to substantiate his life having been made a "living hell?"
And you're going to have to also demonstrate that any pressure applied by anyone on the judge to make the recent statements wasn't fully justified, given how deeply flawed both the Goldstone Commission and resulting report were.

Who knows, maybe it's possible that he could perhaps, in some small way, all by himself, maybe have decided to do the right thing, and say he was wrong, that there's a chance of some sort, possibly and perhaps, that he should have come to a number of different conclusions before signing the report? People are allowed to change their mind after reviewing the information, after all. We do it all the time in medicine and science.

Just putting it out there.
 
Other than the unpleasantness surrounding the Bar Mitvah, which he attended in the end regardless, there's very little detail. Do you have anything beyond an assumption to substantiate his life having been made a "living hell?"
And you're going to have to also demonstrate that any pressure applied by anyone on the judge to make the recent statements wasn't fully justified, given how deeply flawed both the Goldstone Commission and resulting report were.

Who knows, maybe it's possible that he could perhaps, in some small way, all by himself, maybe have decided to do the right thing, and say he was wrong, that there's a chance of some sort, possibly and perhaps, that he should have come to a number of different conclusions before signing the report? People are allowed to change their mind after reviewing the information, after all. We do it all the time in medicine and science.

Just putting it out there.

Yes I am sure that the same jewish community who tried to stop the from going to HIS OWN GRANDSON's barmitva were very amicable with him otherwise
Too add yes its an opinion piece, but an opinion that is substantiated
 
Yes I am sure that the same jewish community who tried to stop the from going to HIS OWN GRANDSON's barmitva were very amicable with him otherwise
Too add yes its an opinion piece, but an opinion that is substantiated

I'm sure that members of the Jewish community had some unpleasant things to say to, or about, the judge. But that is also an assumption on my behalf - I don't know what anyone said, I wasn't there, and I'm just going on what I have observed of people in general when somebody says something they don't like.
I'm not being facaetious here, it's already been stated by the people who approached him that they pressured him into changing his mind so that's not under any kind of question. What is under question, and what I would like to know, is what was the nature of that pressure. What is the substantiation for your opinion that the opinion piece is an accurate reflection of what happened. I know I'm asking a lot here, but I would like to see something something credible and substantiated - an attributed quote or statement with specifics - rather than what people assume was the case because it fits their politics and worldview.

There's a very large difference between "Justice Goldstone, you are wrong on this point, this point, and this point, and these are the reasons why; for the sake of your good name and in order for the truth to be known, you need to do the right thing and make an announcement that you were mistaken", and "If you don't change your statement which we do not like, we will take punitive action against you, and ostracize you from our community for purely spiteful reasons, because we're sulking", and so on.

The former is showing somebody the error of their ways, and encouraging them to do the right thing - a tradition which is honoured in both Judaism and Islam - and is fully justified.

The latter is coercion, and not justifiable at all.
 
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