Is the relationship between employee and employer becoming strained in SA?

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BobsLawnService

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I seem to be seeing this more and more often in the IT industry and I am not sure if it is just me being over-sensitive or not. Companies are increasingly trying to get away with cutting benefits, monitoring employees, offering the minimum in terms of legislation, paying as little as possible irregardlerss of an employees real business value. At the same time employees are reacting by being less loyal, and more prone to slacking off, abusing sick leave and just generally less trusting?

It's something that is bugging me. Are there any companies that trust their employees anymore? Or offer great leave or long service sabbaticals, or who periodically adjust low salary earners who provide value to a company?

I'm reading some of the threads about salary in this forum and it is quite obvious a few people are unhappy about the current status quo.
 
Companies are not tyring to get away with "cutting benefits"...we as business owners are trying to survive in the cuthroat IT sector. I am also not sure what "benefits" you may be referring to? Pension funds and medical funds perhaps? Those days are long gone in the SMB sector and very few companies can afford it. My company employ entry level techies with very little if any work experience, but they do have some qualifications. Then we have to start with intensive in house training to get them up to speed and also up to a level where they actually contribite and "earn" their salaries.

Unfortunately generation X is under the impression that it is their RIGHT to have a job. It is a privelage, NOT a right. They also abuse all the free internet readily available at work, hence the monitoring. I can go on and on...bottom line, if you do not like your salary or working conditions you are free to resign. Good luck out there.......
 
I dont know if its worse than any other country, to be honest. Businesses will ALWAYS want to cut costs, but at the same time, if they really need to employ someone, sometimes they are willing to pay top dollar.

The biggest problem I have with SA IT employers is their attitude towards hiring people. They refuse to skill people up, or hire graduates. In other words, they refuse to give anything back to employees, and instead expect all employees to magically be created with the appropriate skills.

Of course, it doesnt work that way. Graduates need to be given a chance to get skills so that they can develop, but few companies want to do that. But then they moan that there are no skilled developers. It makes it a very tough market to break into, and I dont have sympathy with employers who moan about the lack of skilled staff but also do not skill staff up. Which is most of them. You have to give something to get something.
 
There has been perfomance appraisals here at work and everyone is getting less score, resulting in no increase. So a lot of people here are very frastrated. I'm about to do mine today as well.
 
MightyQuin's post above is such a perfect illustration of my point and I am not unsympathetic to the realities of business but that is a bit of a hostile attitude right there. I'm also not suggesting that employees are blameless either.

The attitude that employers are doing employees a favour by just hiring them is a little toxic.
 
I can say a lot, but I won't.

Ancalagon has it close to how I perceive things.
 
BobsLawnService said:
MightyQuin's post above is such a perfect illustration of my point and I am not unsympathetic to the realities of business but that is a bit of a hostile attitude right there. I'm also not suggesting that employees are blameless either.

The attitude that employers are doing employees a favour by just hiring them is a little toxic.
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I agree with you about the attitude. Look, I know a lot of employees have bad attitudes, and thats difficult. But none of the people I know in IT have a bad attitude at all, and even when the business is doing well, raises are just not great. You get what you deserve when you move, and not before. And then they moan about employee retention - a counter offer means you did not care about the employee, and thats why he left. Too little too late in other words.
 
Also by benefits I mean sticking to the bare minimum of employee rights as stipulated by the Basic Conditions of employment, fair overtime pay, etc.
 
BobsLawnService said:
The attitude that employers are doing employees a favour by just hiring them is a little toxic.
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I agree with this 100%. Sure some employees will be bad but really treating them like a liability is a bit uncalled for. It reminds me of the ****ty attitude in general in SA these days. Especially people with small businesses treat their customers like that too. Like the customer should be happy you're doing him a favour.

Were you specifically talking about IT businesses or in general?
 
Most of the people I know are in the IT industry so it's what I've been seeing and hearing. I don't know if it is specific to the IT industry. The people I do know in other industries all get great bonusses, leave, etc.
 
BobsLawnService said:
MightyQuin's post above is such a perfect illustration of my point and I am not unsympathetic to the realities of business but that is a bit of a hostile attitude right there. I'm also not suggesting that employees are blameless either.

The attitude that employers are doing employees a favour by just hiring them is a little toxic.
Click to expand...

+100.
 
BobsLawnService said:
Most of the people I know are in the IT industry so it's what I've been seeing and hearing. I don't know if it is specific to the IT industry. The people I do know in other industries all get great bonusses, leave, etc.
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I don't. Get great bonusses I mean. Or any bonus so far in fact. But from the articles on mybb it seems that people working in IT are either being paid insanely well, or very big liars. I mean ordinary salaries, not bonusses. With us you can only get a bonus if the project makes a higher profit than projected. My brother works for Eskom though, so they get huge bonusses pretty much no matter what.

It depends on where you work I guess. I know the parastatals pay massive benefits in general, so even if your salary isn't that much higher, you have to spend much less of it because of all your allowances. But us private sector chumps have to take what we can get, which as you say, is sometimes the bare minimum.
 
I have a great relationship with my boss which makes the working environment alot better, people who rule with an iron fist just dont care enough to know that it doenst work as good as other methods
 
BobsLawnService said:
I seem to be seeing this more and more often in the IT industry and I am not sure if it is just me being over-sensitive or not. Companies are increasingly trying to get away with cutting benefits, monitoring employees, offering the minimum in terms of legislation, paying as little as possible irregardlerss of an employees real business value. At the same time employees are reacting by being less loyal, and more prone to slacking off, abusing sick leave and just generally less trusting?

It's something that is bugging me. Are there any companies that trust their employees anymore? Or offer great leave or long service sabbaticals, or who periodically adjust low salary earners who provide value to a company?

I'm reading some of the threads about salary in this forum and it is quite obvious a few people are unhappy about the current status quo.
Click to expand...

I think employers try to squeeze blood out of a stone at times and therefore the issues. Statistically allot of people are under more stress; and to find someone who is on an anti-depressant - or related medication because of work stress is not very difficult.
 
BobsLawnService said:
MightyQuin's post above is such a perfect illustration of my point and I am not unsympathetic to the realities of business but that is a bit of a hostile attitude right there. I'm also not suggesting that employees are blameless either.

The attitude that employers are doing employees a favour by just hiring them is a little toxic.
Click to expand...

Hostile attitude? Please ellaborate on that comment? As I said in my post...we actually give guys with NO experience a chance to get into the industry. We take a risk in employing someone with no experience. We then spend literally hundreds of hours to train this individual during work hours. This training would have cost hom thousands of rands if he had to go to an institution of some sort. Whille doing this, we pay this techie a full salary and we pay his petrol and cellphone. We give him corporate clothing free of charge etc etc. Hostile attitude??? Why don't you examine your own attitude a bit?
 
killer123 said:
So I will not work extra hours anymore, unless its my for own company.
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But this is also the wrong attitude. The relationship between employee and employer should be symbiotic. When a company does well because of its employees the employees should see some benefit and employees should go out of their way to make sure that a company thrives.
 
MightyQuin said:
Companies are not tyring to get away with "cutting benefits"...we as business owners are trying to survive in the cuthroat IT sector. I am also not sure what "benefits" you may be referring to? Pension funds and medical funds perhaps? Those days are long gone in the SMB sector and very few companies can afford it. My company employ entry level techies with very little if any work experience, but they do have some qualifications. Then we have to start with intensive in house training to get them up to speed and also up to a level where they actually contribite and "earn" their salaries.

Unfortunately generation X is under the impression that it is their RIGHT to have a job. It is a privelage, NOT a right. They also abuse all the free internet readily available at work, hence the monitoring. I can go on and on...bottom line, if you do not like your salary or working conditions you are free to resign. Good luck out there.......
Click to expand...

And what exactly is your staff retention like in a given year? What % do you turn over annually, in general? My guess would be that it's quite high relatively. It sounds like you are paying a bunch of guys entry level salaries to go with their 'nil' years of experience, and things like standard benefits aren't even remotely on your agenda? If it were me, as it may have been 10 years ago, I'd pick up the experience and leave your shop as soon as I could. A guess a company like yours is needed when people are entering the market, but it sounds like a first hop in the ladder of corporate life

Things are not so tough out there for people who are qualified and experienced. I wouldnt even consider, not for 1 minute, a place where I did not get a decent wage and at least basic benefits, preferably more.
 
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