Plasma vs LCD

[duderoo]

I am looking to buy a Sony Plasma or LCD and have noticed they have other options like LCD, Grand Wega and Bravia. Can anyone offer any advice on what is the best to go for?
Budget = R20 000 but possibly more if it is worth the money.

[AcidRaZor]

I'd say LCD. But don't overlook rear projection TV's, they bulky but they still the best for you if you working with only 20k. Think you can get a 157cm

[duderoo]

Rear projection I would not want......quality ain't there......ok lets say maybe R30 000.

[AcidRaZor]

Try LCD either... but go for broke, at least 110cm

[arf9999]

42" Grand Wega = less than R20K. HD ready. Brilliant image.

This is rear projection but higher quality than Plasma or LCD in the same price range.

[scatlett]

My boss owns both a plasma and an lcd; he says the lcd is better; although I am not convinced.

But then don't listen to me, I own a 54cm JVC curved screen from HiFi corp.

[swordfish1]

it all depends on what you want to use it for, but things are leaning more toward LCD, except pricewise

LCD has some issues with producing decent blacks, which can be a problem if you have a proper tv room, which is completely dark. On the other hand LCD doesn't reflect light at all, which makes it brilliant choice for well lit rooms, you can see the screen perfectly even if direct sunlight shines at it. Also LCD has usually higher resolution making it suitable for PC screen as well, the new LCDs go up to 1920x1200 or something like that.

LCD can reproduce worse image than plasmas with SDTV, you might need to buy a decent video processor to work around this. This is not deficiency of the LCD but rather deficiency of the source.

Overal LCD can potentially produce higher quality picture with no reflections, plasmas suffer from reflections almost like the normal TVs, they have lower resolution which makes them unusable for PC (for work, not for movies), quality tends to be somewhat better with SDTV sources, although that is a bit questionable.

stay away from rear projection crap, they are useless, absolute waste of money, don't understand why people buying it, just to show up probably, when the tv is off

[EDIT] LCD do not suffer from permanent burn in at all, you can leave the same picture for a week, no problem, while plasmas do suffer big time. LCD can catch some ghosting if you have a static picture for a while, but the ghosting disappears a little while after you change the image (minutes), in other words it is not permanent, like on plasmas

[supersunbird]

Well, Plasma's suffer bad from burn in, especially due to solid logos in SA.

There was a thread about it the other day...

[arf9999]

stay away from rear projection crap, they are useless, absolute waste of money, don't understand why people buying it, just to show up probably, when the tv is off



complete cr@p... sorry swordfish1, but you don't know what you are talking about. A R20K Sony Grand Wega will outperform a Plasma of the same price and an LCD costing 50% more. The only real disadvantage of these sets is the cost of lamp replacement. They take up the same amount of space as a Plasma on a stand, contast is better than LCD panel, refresh rate is higher, and brightness is much higher.

[swordfish1]

complete cr@p... sorry swordfish1, but you don't know what you are talking about. A R20K Sony Grand Wega will outperform a Plasma of the same price and an LCD costing 50% more. The only real disadvantage of these sets is the cost of lamp replacement. They take up the same amount of space as a Plasma on a stand, contast is better than LCD panel, refresh rate is higher, and brightness is much higher.
not sure what are you talking about, but I am yet to see a rear projection tv that is worth seeing, if you are talking about LCD projection TV that is a different story, although I will still prefer normal LCD compared to that, because of its size (you can hang it on the wall) and because it is maintenance free.

[zeb]

I posted this on techies a while ago, but since you asked I'll post it here as well

Plasma vs LCD (http://www.plasmatvbuyingguide.com/plasmatvreviews/plasma-vs-lcd.html)

[arf9999]

not sure what are you talking about, but I am yet to see a rear projection tv that is worth seeing, if you are talking about LCD projection TV that is a different story, although I will still prefer normal LCD compared to that, because of its size (you can hang it on the wall) and because it is maintenance free.most rpj tvs are LCD or DLP based nowdays.

[swordfish1]

most rpj tvs are LCD or DLP based nowdays.
right, maybe in USA yes, I hardly see any LCD or DLP based projection tvs in the ordinary shops, like makro, stax, game, hifi, or they just look as bad as the old projection tvs, so I have just ignored them

[arf9999]

right, maybe in USA yes, I hardly see any LCD or DLP based projection tvs in the ordinary shops, like makro, stax, game, hifi, or they just look as bad as the old projection tvs, so I have just ignored them
hence my statement that you don't know what you are taliking about;)

Seriously tho' the old CRT based projectors are being phased out and are only found in places where the merchandisers know f#ckall about technology and only look at price..."makro, stax, game, hifi"...

[swordfish1]

hence my statement that you don't know what you are taliking about;)

Seriously tho' the old CRT based projectors are being phased out and are only found in places where the merchandisers know f#ckall about technology and only look at price..."makro, stax, game, hifi"...
so do you order it from USA? Go to hifi and you will see dozens of those "old" projection TVs and none of the new ones ...

what's the point looking at models that are not available in SA to begin with?

[arf9999]

Go to Hirsch's, Digital Experience, Sounds Great, Cat's Digital, New World, Sound and Image, Electrovision (maybe), etc...

LCD projectors are available from Samsung, Sony, LG (I think). DLP from Toshiba and Samsung.

Sony has a range from 42" to 60" of Grand Wega... Probably the best available ATM. For the price of a 40" LCD panel, you can get a 50" or even a 60" LCD projector.

http://www.sony.co.za/cas.asp?DTID=1&CID=49&SID=219
http://www.samsung.com/za/products/television/dlpprojectiontv/sp_61l3hr.asp
http://za.lge.com/md/product/prodcategorylist.do?actType=detail&currPage=1&categoryId=0200000303&parentCategoryId=0200000003&categoryLevel=3&productId=1100000052

[swordfish1]

Go to Hirsch's, Digital Experience, Sounds Great, Cat's Digital, New World, Sound and Image, Electrovision (maybe), etc...

LCD projectors are available from Samsung, Sony, LG (I think). DLP from Toshiba and Samsung.

Sony has a range from 42" to 60" of Grand Wega... Probably the best available ATM. For the price of a 40" LCD panel, you can get a 50" or even a 60" LCD projector.

http://www.sony.co.za/cas.asp?DTID=1&CID=49&SID=219
http://www.samsung.com/za/products/television/dlpprojectiontv/sp_61l3hr.asp
http://za.lge.com/md/product/prodcategorylist.do?actType=detail&currPage=1&categoryId=0200000303&parentCategoryId=0200000003&categoryLevel=3&productId=1100000052
thanks for the info, but do they actually have them in stock, so I can go there and see 10+ different LCD/DLP projection TVs on the floor lined up in a row so I can compare them, like in hifi corp for example? Or they just pretend that they can get them for me if I order ...

[PeterCH]

I am looking to buy a Sony Plasma or LCD and have noticed they have other options like LCD, Grand Wega and Bravia. Can anyone offer any advice on what is the best to go for?
Budget = R20 000 but possibly more if it is worth the money.

As an owner of the Hitachi PMA400E HD plasma, I can tell you to stick to a plasma set if you want anything bigger than 32 inches. The colours on my set are superior to any LCD I've seen anywhere.

Secondly, if you want an HD set you're gonna have to pay more than R20K.
FYI, a 60 Inch HD Panasonic, retails for R120.000 at present and boasts a
resolution of 1920by1080. Most sub R25K plasma sets are Extended Definition sets - ie a little over DVD resolution.

Furthermore look for an HDCP 1.2 HDMI port on your set. Although studios have said they will probably allow HD output over component cables for the new generation HD-DVD players - your best bet is to buy a plasma with
such an input. A res of 1024 at least is necessary for HD, but a true HD
plasma will have a native resolution of 1920x1080. So far I haven't seen a single set like this in SA, except one which retailed for R120K.

Your other bet is to import from a place like B&H Photo Video, sure you'll pay tax and DHL but the overall price will be less than what's charged here, significantly and you'll get a newer model, maybe even full HD, or at least 720p.

LCDs are nice but only for sub 32 inch sets. For anything bigger go for plasma and in case you want HD and have a large room, distances over 4meters for
42/32 inch plasma/LCD HD sets do not make a significant difference between HD and ED.

If you're on a smaller budget and are willing to wait, that's probably better, plasma sets should drop in price very soon, as HD-DVD becomes more
mainstream.

Oh and beware of the Philips Ambilight, they're being withdrawn from the States because of fire hazard issues.

[arf9999]

Your other bet is to import from a place like B&H Photo Video, sure you'll pay tax and DHL but the overall price will be less than what's charged here, significantly and you'll get a newer model, maybe even full HD, or at least 720p.
But remember that Duty + Excise on televisions = 39% of FOB price, and then you pay 14% on the total. Also shipping a 30-40 kg panel from the US is going to cost plenty. And if it is faulty, you have no local warranty. (Just some things to keep in mind). caveat emptor



LCDs are nice but only for sub 32 inch sets. For anything bigger go for plasma and in case you want HD and have a large room, distances over 4meters for
42/32 inch plasma/LCD HD sets do not make a significant difference between HD and ED. By ED I suppose you mean 1366 x 768 pixels. For most people this going to be ok, even for "High definition". HDMI input is nice to have, but it looks like both HD-DVD and Blu-ray will support HD over analogue component, so it isn't really going to cause a problem in future.

I don't entirely agree with you about LCD tho', 7th generation LCDs (the latest from Samsung, Sony, and Sharp), are just as good in terms of colour reproduction and offer better resolution than equivalent Plasma screens up to 40/42" (and shortly there will be 50"+ models that offer the same quality). The main disadvantage is their pricing - about 30% more expensive.
Full HD Plasmas (1920 x 1080 resolution) are very rare at sizes less than 50", purely because it is extremely difficult to make the plasma cells small enough to enable the resolution in smaller panels. Most 42" and 50" "HD-ready" plasma panels are effectively XGA resolution - with around 1024x768 pixels and an internal scaling system.

[Inertia]

I would recommend going for a LG plasma tv. I got the 51" 10000:1 contrast monitor, and it really is nice. Hung it on the wall with a glass wall directly behind you when you watch, but glare has never been a problem. This is also due to the fact that the mounting bracket has a tilt function that can direct the monitor away from the glare.

Picture qualtiy is excellent. Especially local content like DSTV, which i was very surprised abt, produces very good quality images. It's got almost exact HD compatibility, so no upgrading come 2010 :D...

As for price, the 41" gives you really good value for money, retailing at ard R16-18g these days, while the 51" could set you back anywhere from 30g to 36g

[arf9999]

Picture qualtiy is excellent. Especially local content like DSTV, which i was very surprised abt, produces very good quality images. It's got almost exact HD compatibility, so no upgrading come 2010 :D...


er no.. it is XGA-ish (1366 x 768). HD is 1920 x 1080. It is a so-called HD-ready set, not true full-HD, and needs to downscale HD images to display them.

[MaD]

The clarity, sharpness and brightness on many LCD screens surpasses that of plasma. The screen sizes are perhaps somewhat smaller, but you will see the difference in image quality immediately.

LCD screens have more life to them than most plasma's.. put a decent LCD next to a decent plasma and you will notice the difference. Size isn't everything - if you have crisp, clear image but a slightly smaller screen then just move your couch a little closer :) stay away from projection TV's though, they're way too bulky and look like something from the 80's.

[arf9999]

T stay away from projection TV's though, they're way too bulky and look like something from the 80's.
*sigh*.. not neccesarily as has already been said earlier in the thread...

Sony Grand Wega is an "HD Ready" LCD Projector. A 42" Grand Wega will outperform both a plasma and an LCD panel at the same price point. Although you can't mount it on a wall, the footprint is smaller than a Plasma on a table stand. And if you think this (www.sony.co.za/prod_enlarge.asp?PID=1388&largeimage=) is ugly, you must have strange taste :)

[Angellus]

er no.. it is XGA-ish (1366 x 768). HD is 1920 x 1080. It is a so-called HD-ready set, not true full-HD, and needs to downscale HD images to display them.


Nope you are wrong my friend.

HD comes in different flavours.

1080i/p, 720i/p

1080i/p has a resolution of 1920x1080 and is either interlaced at 60fps or progressive at 24fps.

The same goes for 720 but the res is 1280x720. If you take 720P and compare it to 1080i the actual image quality is very close.

720P is full HD. Most HD broadcasts overseas are not 1080P but either 1080i or 720P.

It is a good idea to get a set now with HDMI and with a native res that supports 720P or higher.

The Toshiba DLP Rear Projection TV's are amazing.(They run 1080P Native Res) I saw one when I was in the states and at first was thinkin damn thats a nice plasma only when I looked at it from the side did I see it was Rear projection. Was also displayed next to a plasma.

The Sony Bravia range are awesome. We have been looking at the 40 KLV-V40A10 retailing for about R39 000. I am sure you can find it for less tho.

http://www.sony.co.za/prod.asp?DTID=1&CID=49&SID=268&PID=1395

It is an amzing set.

[arf9999]

Nope you are wrong my friend.

HD comes in different flavours.

1080i/p, 720i/p
well almost..HD comes does come in 1920x1080i/p but only 720p AFAIK


1080i/p has a resolution of 1920x1080 and is either interlaced at 60fps or progressive at 24fps.
almost again. " i " can be interlaced at 50 or 60 FIELDS per second (not fps which means frames per second). "p" is progressive at 30fps or 25fps.<edit: I'm wrong here - 720p is at 50 or 60 Frames per second - sorry> 24fps is the speed that film (movies) are recorded. to all intents and purposes, it is difficult to differenciate 1fps...so as a matter of course most PAL (25fps) DVD movies run very slightly faster than the original film movie.


The same goes for 720 but the res is 1280x720. If you take 720P and compare it to 1080i the actual image quality is very close. Using what source? A full HD 1080i source is going to look MUCH better on a 1080i panel than a scaled down version on a 720p panel. The advantage of 1080i over 1080p is the reduction of bandwidth of the signal, and the advantage of 1080p over 1080i is the reduction of motion artifacts and edge jaggies in fast moving footage.



720P is full HD. Most HD broadcasts overseas are not 1080P but either 1080i or 720P. nope 720 is HD but not "Full" HD.



The Toshiba DLP Rear Projection TV's are amazing.(They run 1080P Native Res) I saw one when I was in the states and at first was thinkin damn thats a nice plasma only when I looked at it from the side did I see it was Rear projection. Was also displayed next to a plasma. I saw these units in Japan last year. They are very good, especially the black levels which are far superior to LCD. However, they have a very irritating colour smear on fast moving objects - because of the way the light is projected.


The Sony Bravia range are awesome. We have been looking at the 40 KLV-V40A10 retailing for about R39 000. I am sure you can find it for less tho.
I agree, ATM this is the best LCD panel TV... a bit pricy tho' (best price I have seen is R36K - waaaay out of my price range). But I still think that a 50" Grand Wega is a better buy atm.

[Angellus]

HD comes in 720P and 720i but for broadcasting they only use 1080i and 720P.

From actually seeing HD in both formats I can tell you that they are extremely close. Saw them on both DLP rear projection and also on 1080i CRT sets.


The reason 720P and 1080i are so close quality wise is the amount of pixels displayed at any given moment.

720p = 1280x720 = 921600
1080i = 1920x540 = 1036800 (Reason being it displays 50/60 half frames per second. This means at any moment you are only seeing 1080/2=540 lines)

720P is the one I would prefer. Unless they start broadcasting in 1080P.

Back on topic. If your budget allows not a lot of tv's look as good or produce such a nice image as the 40" Bravia.

The only disadvantage of an LCD is that a plasma produces a better black.

[arf9999]

HD comes in 720P and 720i but for broadcasting they only use 1080i and 720P.

From actually seeing HD in both formats I can tell you that they are extremely close. Saw them on both DLP rear projection and also on 1080i CRT sets. you missed my point: What was the source? I have done tests with a HD signal generator on a number of sets, and believe me, if the source is 1080i, there is a HUGE difference between a 1080i set and a 720p one. Even on the same set with capability of both, the 1080i looks smoother and clearer.



The reason 720P and 1080i are so close quality wise is the amount of pixels displayed at any given moment.

720p = 1280x720 = 921600
1080i = 1920x540 = 1036800 (Reason being it displays 50/60 half frames per second. This means at any moment you are only seeing 1080/2=540 lines)

720P is the one I would prefer. Unless they start broadcasting in 1080P.
You would have to have incredible eyes (and brain/nervous system) to avoid the persistance of vision, considering that each field is displayed for 1/50th of a second. In fact, as far as your eyes and brain are concerned, you are seeing the full resolution of the signal: more than twice the pixel resolution of 720p. The only disadvantage of "i" is motion artifacts, where fast moving objects get a slightly jaggy edge... a freeze frame shows it as a "venetian-blind" effect). Also, I think for now, it looks like 1080i will be the standard for broadcast because the bandwidth required is only slightly more than 720p. But with the advent of HD-DVD and Blu-ray, we will see some 1080p content.



Back on topic. If your budget allows not a lot of tv's look as good or produce such a nice image as the 40" Bravia.

The only disadvantage of an LCD is that a plasma produces a better black.
Well there we agree.:)

[Angellus]

you missed my point: What was the source? I have done tests with a HD signal generator on a number of sets, and believe me, if the source is 1080i, there is a HUGE difference between a 1080i set and a 720p one. Even on the same set with capability of both, the 1080i looks smoother and clearer.


You would have to have incredible eyes (and brain/nervous system) to avoid the persistance of vision, considering that each field is displayed for 1/50th of a second. In fact, as far as your eyes and brain are concerned, you are seeing the full resolution of the signal: more than twice the pixel resolution of 720p. The only disadvantage of "i" is motion artifacts, where fast moving objects get a slightly jaggy edge... a freeze frame shows it as a "venetian-blind" effect). Also, I think for now, it looks like 1080i will be the standard for broadcast because the bandwidth required is only slightly more than 720p. But with the advent of HD-DVD and Blu-ray, we will see some 1080p content.


Well there we agree.:)

The sources were 2 shows cant remember the names but one was one FOX and in 720p the other was on CBS and 1080i. It was at a Best Buy in Florida and they showed me both the shows on both tv's and 720p was more pleasing to watch the 1080i flickred like when you have your monitor set at 72hz or lower. I cant use my monitor at anything lower than 72Hz cos my eyes start to hurt.

[arf9999]

The sources were 2 shows cant remember the names but one was one FOX and in 720p the other was on CBS and 1080i. It was at a Best Buy in Florida and they showed me both the shows on both tv's and 720p was more pleasing to watch the 1080i flickred like when you have your monitor set at 72hz or lower. I cant use my monitor at anything lower than 72Hz cos my eyes start to hurt.
then you won't want 1080p... refresh rate is 25/30Hz.:D

edit: can you watch movies at a cinema?

[Angellus]

then you won't want 1080p... refresh rate is 25/30Hz.:D

edit: can you watch movies at a cinema?

Yeah can watch it at a cinema but it also hurts my eyes. It's the worst when there is a lot of white in the image. Suprisingly Cinema(24fps) is not that bad.

[LandyMan]

I also asked the plasma vs LCD question in another thread, and low-and-behold, I walked into a shop today to buy an iPod camera connector (approx R300) which they didn't even stock, and walked out with a LG 32" LCD TV for our bedroom. Luckily I didn't have to justify it to my wife, as she was the one who wanted it :D

[Toxin]

An old comparison on plasma vs lcd done by Toms (http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/03/09/lcd_or_plasma_/).

[supersunbird]

Dudes, what's this plasma thing?

I couldn't care less man... LSD rules...








:p

Drugs are bad, don't do them.

[duderoo]

Thanks for all the info, went into Audio Vision Tygervalley and the guy recommended this Hitachi model which is HD ready. He said if I remember correctly there are no Sony HD ready plasmas in SA.

[duderoo]

I must admit I am a Sony fan.

[duderoo]

http://www.sony.co.za/prod.asp?DTID=1&CID=62&SID=110&PID=1921

Any comments on this Plasma?

[swordfish1]

Hey Person, are you around? How much you can get the "Sony 42" FWD-42PV1 Plasma Display Panel" for? I guess everyone would like to know.

[duderoo]

swordfish1 if u r refering to me I have not sourced a price, but only had a look on Sony.co.za

[mooK]

"Person" is the nick of a dealer who frequents these forums usually offering very competitive pricing.

[swordfish1]

"Person" is the nick of a dealer who frequents these forums usually offering very competitive pricing.
yep, I am surprised he hasn't replied yet :D

I see that the MSRP has dropped to 17,000, it was 19,990 or something like that, so I wonder if one can get this panel for about 13-14,000 or so.

[Tomasz-London]

Have a look at this not HD but worth the cash:
http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?action=c2hvd19wcm9kdWN0X292ZXJ2aWV3&product_uid=101464
Or my baby now:
http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?rb=17847570675&action=c2hvd19wcm9kdWN0X292ZXJ2aWV3&product_uid=91406
Now a wait until SKY in the UK upgrades to HD. Sigh!

[swordfish1]

Have a look at this not HD but worth the cash:
http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?action=c2hvd19wcm9kdWN0X292ZXJ2aWV3&product_uid=101464
Or my baby now:
http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?rb=17847570675&action=c2hvd19wcm9kdWN0X292ZXJ2aWV3&product_uid=91406
Now a wait until SKY in the UK upgrades to HD. Sigh!
how exactly the UK price is helping anyone here???

you can buy the sony I mentioned above for US$1400 in USA, which is less than R9000, but who cares, here it is double!

[LandyMan]

... which is less than R9000, but who cares, here it is double!
Well, there you have it, around R18k :p

[arf9999]

how exactly the UK price is helping anyone here???

you can buy the sony I mentioned above for US$1400 in USA, which is less than R9000, but who cares, here it is double! Well, thats what internet searches will tell you...http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=fwd-42pv1&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&percentage_served=100&sa=N&tab=wf

But if you dig a bit deeper, it is hard to find a reputable online seller with good reviews for much less than $1750. Which is about R11000...plus duty, plus vat...R13500. plus shipping.......

Local price is R13999 from Digital Experience in Fourways... I phoned them and that is the price they quoted. Contact Jacques (011) 465 1466.

[Tomasz-London]

how exactly the UK price is helping anyone here???

you can buy the sony I mentioned above for US$1400 in USA, which is less than R9000, but who cares, here it is double!

Sheesh, take the guys head of, why don't you.
The thread was discussing importing, right?!:(

[swordfish1]

Well, thats what internet searches will tell you...http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=fwd-42pv1&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&percentage_served=100&sa=N&tab=wf

But if you dig a bit deeper, it is hard to find a reputable online seller with good reviews for much less than $1750. Which is about R11000...plus duty, plus vat...R13500. plus shipping.......

Local price is R13999 from Digital Experience in Fourways... I phoned them and that is the price they quoted. Contact Jacques (011) 465 1466.
thanks arf9999, I will think about it, 14 grand is quite a lot of money still, but I guess it is worthed for a good sony, given that some cr@p sansui is about 12 grand at hifi

and I hope they have the black ones, because I will not be getting the silver one no matter what!

:cool:

[swordfish1]

Sheesh, take the guys head of, why don't you.

I just don't want to look at the overseas prices for stuff that are heavy and I can't import. Price difference is sickening! Anything between 50% and 300%+. Don't you feel bad when you have to pay such premium for old technology (the only one you get in SA), sold to you by completely incompetent sales perople! It is plain wrong!

[duderoo]

Can one buy from overseas and is it not the way to go if the price is cheaper irrespective of the import duty shipping etc. and would Sony supply support for it here in SA?

[duderoo]

I see the Sony FWD50PX2 is $2649 in the US, and about R35 999 in SA.

[swordfish1]

duderoo, the shipping will cost you in the region of $600-700 I think, then you add VAT and whatever other taxes are applicable, phone Sony and ask them for the support, I doubt that they will support it. If you buy more pro type of brand they usually will support products bough overseas, but for Sony I don't think so.

[Mudshark]

Nice to debate about all this technology, but you still cannot get away from the lousy programmes in between the ads.....

[arf9999]

Sony will support it, as long as the model is identical to the local version. There won't be a warranty tho'...