Behind the myth that affirmative action is hurting white prospects

MyDraadloos

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I question the quality of her data ...... lies, damn lies and statistics.

http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/topstories.aspx?ID=BD4A182739

IT SEEMS that some circles cling to the belief that affirmative action has devastated the prospects for young white people and — to a lesser extent — coloured people.

Yet however much some people cherish this perception, the data show it is simply wrong.

Even if we take skills and age into account, unemployment remains highest among Africans, especially African women. Management in the private sector is still heavily dominated by whites with remarkably little change in representivity since the mid-1990s. And the poverty rate for whites is a fraction of the rate for the rest of the population.

The figures on joblessness demonstrate that non-Africans still have first claim on most jobs. In September 2004, unemployment ran at 46% for Africans under 30 years old. In contrast, it was 30% for coloureds and Asians in that age group, and 10% for white youth. Among African women under 30 years old, three out of four were unemployed.

Some of the discrepancy reflects differences in education. But significant differences remain even if we look at people with the same educational achievements. Thus, one out of 10 African university graduates under 30 was unemployed in September 2004. The figure was under one in 20 for other groups. In short, it is clear that the inherited racial hierarchy still largely determines who will get a job.

Even if they found employment, Africans were less likely than whites to hold powerful positions. In 2004, Africans constituted two-thirds of all employed people while whites made up a seventh. But Africans held just 14% of senior management positions in the private sector not counting the self-employed. Coloureds and Asians contributed 17% and whites 54%. Compared with data in the October household survey, representivity among private-sector managers had worsened slightly since 1996.

Even in the public sector, senior management was far from representative. The public sector accounted for about a fifth of all employees. Africans held 47% of senior management positions, coloureds 15%, and whites 39%. In other words, whites were over-represented by a factor of two.

As might be expected, the relegation of black people to lower levels in employment was reflected in the distribution of incomes. In 2004 only 7% of whites earned less than R1500 a month compared with 61% of Africans and 31% of coloureds. Meanwhile, Africans accounted for only a fifth of the top 5% of income earners, while whites made up nearly three-quarters. True, the situation was better than in 1996, when Africans constituted just a seventh of the high-income group. But the change was hardly overwhelming.

Perhaps the most disconcerting facet of persistent racial inequality relates to tertiary education. A university degree often forms a prerequisite for economic and social power. Yet in the early 2000s, Africans made up just more than half of all university students and less than half of students in historically white institutions. Meanwhile, whites made up a third of all university students, and two-fifths of those in the privileged schools.

True, lower levels of education contributed to worse economic prospects for Africans. But educational discrepancies should not be blown out of proportion. According to the September 2004 Labour Force Survey, Africans accounted for two- fifths of university graduates, about the same proportion as whites. The average African under 30 years old had about 10,5 years of formal education, compared with 11 years for the average coloured youth and 12 years for the average white. Given these data, why does the myth persist that affirmative action has had a tremendous effect?

One factor is that some individuals view the loss of privilege, not as a requirement for equality, but as a loss of entitlements. They resent the fact that they can no longer count on an assured career with the competition suppressed by law.

A second explanation lies in high unemployment itself, and especially the job losses of the late 1990s. It is fatally easy for some workers to blame ethnicity for the shortage of jobs, rather than the economic shifts associated with downsizing in the public sector and tariff reductions.

Ultimately, the only solution is to reduce the unemployment rate to well below the current crisis levels. No one wins if every group seeks only to increase opportunities for itself while a third of the labour force remains excluded from the economy.

‖Makgetla is a Congress of South African Trade Unions economist.
 
Hulle moet gaan k@k praat op 'n ander plek. Ask the small white owned bussinesses that cannot get contracts because they are not BEE/AA compliant ask the many farthers with post school kids that cannot get work as they are the wrong race (on entry job levels is the place where most large company's push up the BEE/AA compliance numbers)
 
It is true: Managers still tend to be white males.

But the article did not have a look at clerks and other junior positions.

Have a look in the vacancy adverts, and see how many says AA only...
 
This is just drivel with non-sequitur conclusions drawn from the facts quoted. I can find nothing in the figures stated that is inconsistent with many qualified experienced whites now finding themselves out of work and unable to get back into employment.

And to those who ( as in other threads ) would deny that AA has a negative effect on white employment prospects I ask - Have you been there? If not please shut up.
:mad:
 
Well look at sport as an example as most of it is professional and therefore a job

Clyde Rathbone, Kevin Pieterson, Mat Stevens - all claim to have departed because of quotas - however if you look at the repsective National teams - its whities keeping them out of a job !
 
jabulani said:
And to those who ( as in other threads ) would deny that AA has a negative effect on white employment prospects I ask - Have you been there? If not please shut up.
:mad:

What a load of drivel - you mean to win an argument by denying those with alternative view points a chance to debate?

I am a white male, early 30's. I can safely say AA has not affected me in the least.
Just recently, I was given the opportunity to become a director at my company.

So, if some people are affected negatively, it certainly does not mean all people.
 
louisp said:
Thats' BS!!!!


Explain to me how you appoint Ashwell Prince as Vice-Captain for the Cricket team?

Is there a quota system in sport? uuhm YES. That means that even though you are much better than a darkie, you stand a chance of not being selected.


Cause Graham Smith sucks? ;)
 
Let me tell you guys a little story. At one of Golden Arrow's divisions a position opens up for chief division engineer.

Because of union pressures the company is forced too allow their own staff to apply for the position and get first choice.

The some of the current foreman applies for the position and gets into a interview and eventually 4 of them get into a 2nd interview.

So, who gets hired you ask? Well the assistant shop steward, the one that didn’t even go for a interview.

Now ask yourself, isn't this bad? This is the type of behaviour BEE and AA encourages companies too do, fill quotas. Or if you'd like a more extreme pov. put idiots into positions of power so they can fkuck up.
 
Moederloos said:
What a load of drivel - you mean to win an argument by denying those with alternative view points a chance to debate?

I am a white male, early 30's. I can safely say AA has not affected me in the least.
Just recently, I was given the opportunity to become a director at my company.

So, if some people are affected negatively, it certainly does not mean all people.

Yours is the drivel I think. No one was saying it had affected ALL - what sort of silly conclusion is that? But it HAS affected many. Your attitude is just "I'm all right Jack!".

And I'm not trying to "win an argument", just prevent those who have not been touched by this from pontificating. You know - like when apartheid ruled the land and the Nats knew what blacks "really" needed and felt. What I am saying is that if it has not affected you or those you know, you have little credibility. Like you it seems.
:eek:

Congrats on being a "director". Whoopee. Better go read up on fiduciary responsibilities now.
:p
 
Another apartheid government - gee, what we really needed!
 
/me puts away jerry can to ensure that I don't put more fuel on the fire ....

All of history's great mistakes start off as seemingly great ideas i.e. Slavery, Democracy, Communism, Concentration Camps, Apartheid, Affirmative Action.
 
Reading through this thread, I think the one thing that everybody can agree on is that there is, at the very least, a perception among a large number of whites (and to a certain extent the coloured and indian populations) that AA is harming (a) their chances of obtaining employment and/or (b) their chances of advancement within a particular job.

At this point I would then argue that perception equals reality, because if said people perceive they are being persecuted then that is reality to them. The governments job, in my opinion, is to knock this perception on the head, and calling their perception a myth does nothing to dispel it.

That being said, the government had to do something to redress the balance left by the legacy of apartheid, and in my opinion their only option was AA, however with AA now firmly in place questions such as these will start to be asked.:
  • "At what point will AA no longer be required?"
  • "When will AA no longer be required?"
  • "What criteria have to be met to signal the end of AA?"
People have to be able to plan (to a certain degree) for their future, if their perception causes that future to look, at best, rocky, then they will begin to look elsewhere to make that future happen.

A sunset clause in AA would satisfy everyone, it would give the black population something to judge their government on and it would give the white, coloured and indian populations the answers they require.
 
IanC said:
Reading through this thread, I think the one thing that everybody can agree on is that there is, at the very least, a perception among a large number of whites (and to a certain extent the coloured and indian populations) that AA is harming (a) their chances of obtaining employment and/or (b) their chances of advancement within a particular job.

At this point I would then argue that perception equals reality, because if said people perceive they are being persecuted then that is reality to them. The governments job, in my opinion, is to knock this perception on the head, and calling their perception a myth does nothing to dispel it.

That being said, the government had to do something to redress the balance left by the legacy of apartheid, and in my opinion their only option was AA, however with AA now firmly in place questions such as these will start to be asked.:
  • "At what point will AA no longer be required?"
  • "When will AA no longer be required?"
  • "What criteria have to be met to signal the end of AA?"
People have to be able to plan (to a certain degree) for their future, if their perception causes that future to look, at best, rocky, then they will begin to look elsewhere to make that future happen.

A sunset clause in AA would satisfy everyone, it would give the black population something to judge their government on and it would give the white, coloured and indian populations the answers they require.


A sunset clause is already in place, can you not see Africa descending into darkness again....:D :D
 
10% of 50000 is what? 500?
So those of you agree that 10% of 5000000 is alot more than 10% of 50000 for instance?

And of course, if there were the same number of whites in the country that are blacks/coloured and indian people, the utter crap this lady spoke would have had half a chance of surviving a debate about affirmative action hurting or not hurting "whites"

Things are changing, tough, deal with it. I do, but what pisses me off completely is people who can't get over their own damn issues about what happend in the past.

Trust me, if you harbour on what happend in your life, you can't move forward. Plus the fact that I can now just take an anti-aids shower.... you be the judge on where this country is headed.
 
Even if they found employment, Africans were less likely than whites to hold powerful positions. In 2004, Africans constituted two-thirds of all employed people while whites made up a seventh. But Africans held just 14% of senior management positions in the private sector not counting the self-employed. Coloureds and Asians contributed 17% and whites 54%. Compared with data in the October household survey, representivity among private-sector managers had worsened slightly since 1996.
That just seems to tell me that most companies realised that apointing somebody into a position because of skin colour was a big mistake as they made huge loses with people sitting on their asses all day. Driving their new AA BMW's and not doing any work..

People are not fired because of Colour.. they are given jobs because of this however. They are fired though for not doing any work!
 
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craigsa said:
It is very insulting to call someone a racist. It borders on hate speech. Please don't do it mate. Thanks :)
He can't see your post, 'cos you're on his ignore list :D
 
Every white cloud has a dark lining. he he, or is it the other way?
 
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Moederloos said:
Just recently, I was given the opportunity to become a director at my company.

So, if some people are affected negatively, it certainly does not mean all people.

Well, in your new-found good fortune spare a thought for the "some" you mention.

:eek:
 
pip said:
Well, in your new-found good fortune spare a thought for the "some" you mention.

:eek:
Yes and most of the"some"CAN DO THE JOB" while those that "get"the job can not, FREAKS
 
pip said:
Well, in your new-found good fortune spare a thought for the "some" you mention.

:eek:

yes dude, 'some' is actually a whole lot of people so dont just dismiss them like they dont matter just because you somehow have managed not to be burnt by AA.
 
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