Please don’t nail Telkom, employees ask competition authorities

Do you think the Competition Tribunal should impose a large fine on Telkom?

  • Yes

    Votes: 123 83.7%

  • No

    Votes: 24 16.3%
  • Total voters
    147
so how exactly then do we punish Telkom? What alternatives did they offer in the memorandum? What good is a plea without providing an alternative?
 
So this could potentially give Telkom a free pass eh?

Well that just means they can do whatever they want with no repercussions?
 
Garyvdh said:
so how exactly then do we punish Telkom? What alternatives did they offer in the memorandum? What good is a plea without providing an alternative?
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Direct it to the top management team that ignored all advice and made the crappy decisions. Same goes for the Nigeria deal. And if they have left then find a way to hold them personally culpable.
 
I fully agree with MickeyD on this one...

Top management that MADE the decisions should be held personally culpable...

But I also think a better solution for the Competition ppls is to not impose a fine, but to do ICASA's job for them and enforce the breakup of the company into wholsale/retail devisions.
 
I feel sorry for the employees, and I dont wish this on them at all. However Telkom need to pay, letting them off lightly is not going to change their behaviour at all. If its not paid via profits it should be through some other commitment ie. dropping the extra line charge on adsl (without hiking the price up of adsl)
 
I don't wish any employee personal harm, and jobs are important to all. However, as an organisation, they have it coming to them and a lot of their internal culture has culminated in numerous and consequential bad experiences for me across the years.
 
ToxicBunny said:
I fully agree with MickeyD on this one...

Top management that MADE the decisions should be held personally culpable...

But I also think a better solution for the Competition ppls is to not impose a fine, but to do ICASA's job for them and enforce the breakup of the company into wholsale/retail devisions.
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100%.
 
It's too late anyway, Telkom's already laid off any employees who are actually qualified
for the position they're currently in.

I feel for the employees, but I have a sneaking suspicion that Telkom put them up to this
by putting large-scale retrenchments on the table in the first place.

At any rate, that's part of life, everyone's on the same Ship, which means everyone
has to go down with that "Telkom" Ship.

Take Lehman Brothers in the US, EVERYONE lost their jobs.

Same story with Fidenture, one greedy idiot can ruin things for everyone, but sadly,
everyone must face the music.
 
MickeyD said:
Direct it to the top management team that ignored all advice and made the crappy decisions. Same goes for the Nigeria deal. And if they have left then find a way to hold them personally culpable.
Click to expand...

+1

I also like the idea of the fine being in the form of unbundling Telkom and forcing them to use the funds for wholesale network investments. This would actually be better for Telkom employees who could then get some direction and job security. Even if there is no fine I would not feel completely secure at Telkom with the current leadership.
 
The people who made the shady decisions should be punished. We're never going to see lower prices if Telkom have to up the prices to make their money back.
 
Bern said:
+1

I also like the idea of the fine being in the form of unbundling Telkom and forcing them to use the funds for wholesale network investments. This would actually be better for Telkom employees who could then get some direction and job security. Even if there is no fine I would not feel completely secure at Telkom with the current leadership.
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Telkom has already been split. SAIX is the wholesale side. Telkom internet is retail.
 
The trade union asked the commission to take heed of the pleas of more than 3500 Telkom employees and their families, more than 17,000 people, before announcing the fine.
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What a douche way of trying to get out of the fine .. first they tried the blackmail angle saying SA cannot afford for them to go bankrupt, now they trying the emotional angle by making it about jobs & families.

Lemme ask you a question, how many more people were negatively affected by Telkom's predatory pricing over the years? Did Telkom or its employees feel the same level of compassion towards the individuals & businesses they screwed over? Should we even care?

Sometimes its better to take a painful hit now so that things might be better in future. I'm sure the Telkom guys will see everything in that light and decide to take one for the team.

Jut saying .. I agree its management which should be punished instead of the workers but we all know it never works that way.

My solution would be to drop the fine, but make Telkom 1) remove the compulsory voice charges for all ADSL customers 2) drop IPC costs by a huge margin 3) unbundle Telkom and 4) fire government for effectively allowing Telkom to grow into the monster it's become.
 
MickeyD said:
Direct it to the top management team that ignored all advice and made the crappy decisions. Same goes for the Nigeria deal. And if they have left then find a way to hold them personally culpable.
Click to expand...

ToxicBunny said:
I fully agree with MickeyD on this one...

Top management that MADE the decisions should be held personally culpable...
Click to expand...

copacetic said:
100%.
Click to expand...

Bern said:
+1
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inferno said:
The people who made the shady decisions should be punished. We're never going to see lower prices if Telkom have to up the prices to make their money back.
Click to expand...

Couple of concerns with this... Are those people even still around? How many CEOs have come and gone since the year(s) in question in this Competition Tribunal hearing?

Also: How does one prove that they are culpable?

While it would be great to lay blame at the feet of specific individuals, as I understand it companies have limited liability precisely to prevent this. Also to give a degree of pragmatism in proceedings like this, I feel.

This way companies can be called to task if they are found to be anti-competitive in a workable time. How long did it take for this case to be resolved? Imagine how much longer it would have taken if every individual responsible had to be tracked down and a case built against them. I bet nothing would ever have happened.

ToxicBunny said:
But I also think a better solution for the Competition ppls is to not impose a fine, but to do ICASA's job for them and enforce the breakup of the company into wholsale/retail devisions.
Click to expand...

Bern said:
I also like the idea of the fine being in the form of unbundling Telkom and forcing them to use the funds for wholesale network investments. This would actually be better for Telkom employees who could then get some direction and job security. Even if there is no fine I would not feel completely secure at Telkom with the current leadership.
Click to expand...

Could they do that? "Trust busting" like in the good ol' days of Teddy Roosevelt.
 
Good point... what good is a fine if Telkom doesn't actually change any of their behaviour?
 
MickeyD said:
Direct it to the top management team that ignored all advice and made the crappy decisions. Same goes for the Nigeria deal. And if they have left then find a way to hold them personally culpable.
Click to expand...

And government
And icasa

All those had a hand in the matter.
 
Perhaps these "employees" should consider that their rubbish service, can't do attitude, and general lazy uniformed, cannot be bothered to give a damn way of serving their clients will ultimately cost them their jobs.

I hope Telkom gets fined to the point where they have to sell all their assets and infrastructure to competent players.
 
b166er said:
I hope Telkom gets fined to the point where they have to sell all their assets and infrastructure to competent players.
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Not going to happen. They have already indicated that they have access to guaranteed loans to cover any fine(s). The impact of this action (loans) will be passed on to us, firstly through Telkom increasing all their prices to the maximum allowed by ICASA when they file their rates in August and secondly when Telkom start to reduce costs.

Step one will be to reduce staff, so if you thought service is bad now imagine how it will be with 20% fewer staff? Step two will be to stop providing uneconomical services. This could mean switching off whole towns, rural areas and big chunks of South Africa.

The knock-on effect will be enormous in the short-term. By switching off these areas it will also take down most of the cellular and WISP operators as they will also stop providing these backhaul links. All shops, farms, businesses in these areas will have to revert to satellite technology.

Empty threat? Maybe...
 
MickeyD said:
Direct it to the top management team that ignored all advice and made the crappy decisions. Same goes for the Nigeria deal. And if they have left then find a way to hold them personally culpable.
Click to expand...

ToxicBunny said:
I fully agree with MickeyD on this one...

Top management that MADE the decisions should be held personally culpable...

But I also think a better solution for the Competition ppls is to not impose a fine, but to do ICASA's job for them and enforce the breakup of the company into wholsale/retail devisions.
Click to expand...

Agreed, agreed and agreed.

Breaking Telkom up will be at everybody's best interests.
 
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