Best Broadband Connection for VOIP

[flowjam]

Hi there,

Can anyone recommend the best broadband service for VOIP in South Africa. We would be making local calls (if it makes a difference). We are currently using IS ADSL, I'll let you know how it copes when we get the asterisk box up.

Also, can anyone recommend any VOIP providers for calls in SA?

Look forward to your feedback.

[WebhostingTalk]

I use Skype with Iburst and it works very good. But i have heared mixed comments.

[flowjam]

Any recommendations?

Thanks for the feedback WebHostingTalk.

[qwagga]

Any DSL link would do fine when using Skype. I know of people using Skype locally through a dial-up 64k, but that is kind of defeating the object $$$$.

Most outsourcers will provide VoIP as a service. How are you planning on using it? Maybe i can help setup a cost effective solution?

[flowjam]

Thanks Qwagga.

We have an asterisk box, and are looking to use it for calling national numbers. Maybe in the near future, international too. I am fully aware of skype and have used it many times (think I prefer GTalk for pc2pc).

I guess, bottom line is to use it with asterisk from a small office.

[Inertia]

I think go for adsl with IS as your provider, as unlike SAIX, they do not shape the Skype port.

[qwagga]

I am not sure why there are concerns around the shaping of voice data (read Skype).

In short, shaping refers to prioritizing of application data (Skype in this instance) to adhere to predefined parameters. Unlike other data, voice has unique parameters.

Example; voice should not have latency/delay of more than 150 milliseconds. Once voice packets exceed 150ms you will experience jitters and the conversation will brake up, losing portions of the transmitted voice packets. In short you will hear every second/third word or portions of it depending on the latency.

Voice packets are small (around 200 bytes on average) and must be transmitted and processed very quickly to offer a reliable service. This is refered to as QoS (Quality of Service) or "shaping".

In short, shaping of voice data is a GOOD thing!

[ambo]

I am not sure why there are concerns around the shaping of voice data (read Skype).
What are you smoking man??? :confused:

Most people here know the requirements for achieving good voice quality.
And yes most SA ISP's shape their traffic but - and this is a BIG BUT - i don't know of a single one who shapes to favour voice traffic.
They all give it such a low priority that as much a half of the packet stream is lost...

That is why there are such concerns about shaping... :(

[qwagga]

Dude, listen too yourself!!!!!! “They all give it such a low priority that as much a half of the packet stream is lost” What are you smoking!!!

Who would be using VoIP if that was the case? Maybe you should try looking up the active Skype user base in SA. It is large and 70% of them are happy. The odd 50 local users I know of is all 100% happy. No how can that be?!?

[ambo]

as much as half of the packet stream is lost...Yes - this has been about the worst that i have experienced.
I never said that VoIP didn't work - I fall into into this group of happy users you talk about :D
...active Skype user base in SA. It is large and 70% of them are happy.
What i am saying however - is that the ISP's do not shape in favour of VoIP (that i know of) All reports of shaped vs unshapped accounts for VoIP and unshaped came out tops - if voice got priority then that would not be the case.
Also - using VoIP on shaped accounts has now become a fairly usable option and its also a compromise that some of us are forced to use. I suspect that the ISP's may be finally bowing to customer pressure regarding the severe shaping they used to implement - but its still there.

[qwagga]

Here are a couple of things that does not make any sense to me :o

is that the ISP's do not shape in favour of VoIP
Can you please elaborate on how ISP's do not shape in favour of VoIP?

All reports of shaped vs unshapped accounts for VoIP and unshaped came out tops
Could you point me to these reports I am trying to gather as much data as possible on VoIP for a project.
and lastly .. :rolleyes:

as much as half of the packet stream is lost...
If as much as half is lost, 99% of the world population would classify it as NOT WORKING! Maybe i am just missing the point, in which case I offer my apologies :)

PS I get a better quality voice transmission using Skype than on our local mobile networks.

[Nick333]

I am not sure why there are concerns around the shaping of voice data (read Skype).

In short, shaping refers to prioritizing of application data (Skype in this instance) to adhere to predefined parameters. Unlike other data, voice has unique parameters.



As far as I know, in south africa shaping is used to prioritize html traffic over all other types. Therefore when a broadband service is refered to as "shaped" in the South African context you can be pretty sure that VOIP enjoys low prioritization.

In fact I think its probably safe to say that, in the likely scenario where the same technologies that can be used to prioritize specific types of traffic can be used to "throttle" specific types of traffic, all VOIP traffic going through SAIX (Telkom) is shaped (throttled) to ****.

If you cant guess for yourself as to the reason why this would be, ponder for a while that VOIP = free international calls and Telkom = ****ing expensive calls to your next door neighbour.

[qwagga]

Nick,

We all know that the Telkom services suck big time! No question about it, however why would Telkom promote and encourage VoIP and then deliberately "throttle" that service back?

http://www.telkomsa.net/products/TelkomInternet_Communicator.jsp

I would also assume that you have huge VoIP issues due to this "throttled" back service?

[Roman4604]

You have to look more carefully were Telkom is aiming their 'solution' ... PC to PC calls, specifically ADSL to ADSL ... there is no breakout.

I know for a fact that Telkom do no shaping on their national network ... its all done at the interconnect points (primarily international). So bottom line is their 'solution' is effectively not (negatively) shaped.

[Nick333]

Nick,

We all know that the Telkom services suck big time! No question about it, however why would Telkom promote and encourage VoIP and then deliberately "throttle" that service back?

http://www.telkomsa.net/products/TelkomInternet_Communicator.jsp

I would also assume that you have huge VoIP issues due to this "throttled" back service?

The thing is that youre talking about the Telkominternet communicator
. There is really no mystery as to why they would promote their own service and shape it positively. To use it you and anyone you would like to call would have to be a Telkominternet subscriber.

Its basically another example of Telkoms monopolistic advantage that they have over any competition. If you want VoIP that isnt negatively shaped you have to use their service.

Edit: And no I dont have huge VoIP issues, because I dont use it very much at all. I do have issues with all methods used by Telkom to rape the economy and squeeze out the competition.

[qwagga]

Nick,

Thanks for the info. You guys really know your stuff. I was wondering if you can maybe explain to me what the differences are between the Telkom voice application and that of Skype?

Thanks for the feedback.

[flowjam]

Looks like a can of worms have been opend .... or is the same conversation about bandwidth shaping that seems to over run all of the other threads relating to adsl and voice.

I think these forums are great, but there are a few people that seem to have a chip on their shoulder about 'shaped' bandwidth - get over it.

We seem to have gone off topic, may I suggest that the moderator creates a sticky thread dedicated to this topic that every one can who is anyone can have there say about bandwidth and whether it has been shaped ot not.

I started this thread hoping that other people will contribute to providing a thread that that will prove useful to other people looking for an effective voip solution without going the leased line route.

The situation we are in, is that we have too few lines and Telkom has said that we might be able to expect more lines in another month or two. So we have decided to suppliment our lines by utilizing the 'power' of bradband.

Which is why we are looking for a voip solution. Todate, most of the voip solutions have some degredation, which is why ISP like to try and tell you that you have to have a dedicated leased line solution. Once you go down this road, things start getting expensive. It also isn't an option, due to the lack of lines in the area.

I look forward to your flames ..... ;)

[flowjam]

oops, I see there is one already about Telkom and shaping.... all be it skype

[flowjam]

As I mentioned in my earlier posts, I have been using ISDSL, with an x-ten soft phone to conduct server tests.

So far, I have the closest I have come is 1-2 second delay when talking, using Telfree. The delay was more noticable on MTN cell no's.

I am switching to Telkom ADSL from next month, and will let you know how it goes.