preparing for a nuclear holocaust

[nocilah]

http://www.semissourian.com/story/1148689.html


that the White House is conducting "intensified planning for a possible major air attack," including tactical nuclear strikes against Iran.

damn the power hungry americans :mad:

[bb_matt]

Get those paper bags and school desks out!

Yep, that's the way to prepare, you just need to shove a bag over your head and hide under a desk - it won't protect you, but you'll feel like such an idiot doing it, you'll be laughing as you vaporise :)

[mooK]

Cool, now I can play Fallout for real! Great game, can't wait!

[bwana]

damn the power hungry americans :mad:Yup - they're all power hungry warmongers. :rolleyes:

Oddly enough according to that article 47% "strongly disapprove" of Bush but hey lets ignore them and paint everyone with the same brush.

@bb_matt - I remember during the height of the cold war being in school going through those drills (sans the paper bag though). :eek: Did they have similar drills here?

EDIT - Looking at the poll results (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/polls/postpoll_immigration_041006.htm) overall 60% of Americans disapprove of Bush's presidency.

---------------- Approve ----------------------- Disapprove ------ No
NET Strongly Somewhat NET Somewhat Strongly opin.
4/9/06 38 20 18 60 13 47 1

[BOREDOFTELKOM]

Somewhat Disapprove, still love americans, though. If only thier was no Telkom, Proudly South African am i!!!

[tibby.dude]

overall 60% of Americans disapprove of Bush's presidency.


A bit too late for that now ... the majority voted for him again even after being told he and his administration was lying about WMD in Iraq.

[nocilah]

Yup - they're all power hungry warmongers. :rolleyes:


i only disapprove of the power hungry ones, as i said before damn the power hungry americans.

[pupa]

Somewhat Disapprove, still love americans, though. If only thier was no Telkom, Proudly South African am i!!!
I am with you on this. If it was not for the power hungry war mongers then where would we have been. Fidel castro as world leader if it depends on this nation of ours or maybe Mugabe, Idi Amin, or the likes! Hehe Jokes aside Hitler or Lennon could then have been our masters!

[bwana]

I am with you on this. If it was not for the power hungry war mongers then where would we have been. Fidel castro as world leader if it depends on this nation of ours or maybe Mugabe, Idi Amin, or the likes! Hehe Jokes aside Hitler or Lennon could then have been our masters!I'm guessing you mean Lenin (Vladimir Ilich) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenin) - or do you really think the Beatles were out for a non-musical form of world domination :D

[nocilah]

I am with you on this. If it was not for the power hungry war mongers then where would we have been. Fidel castro as world leader if it depends on this nation of ours or maybe Mugabe, Idi Amin, or the likes! Hehe Jokes aside Hitler or Lennon could then have been our masters!

Back in the day when Germany were at war with almost everyone it made perfect sense to attack the nation.

We're talking about IRAN. A country that has NEVER waged war outside it's borders? Yet america wants to NUKE it? There has NEVER been conclusive proof that Osama Bin Laden led the terrorist attacks on america. There were no wmd in Iraq (there wasnt even a formidable army).

But I suppose some people in this world find it okay to kill innocent people after all they are arabs and as america proclaims... arabs are all evil and all want to crush western ideals.

IMHO George Bush is as bad as Lenin. IMHO if America attacks IRAN in this manner you can kiss my world and your world as we know it good bye.

Because the anti american sentiment that is brewing around the world is going to boil over. Remember pride comes before the fall.

[nocilah]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4915026.stm

its not about IRAN waging war its about IRAN making nuclear power stations...

another article about what western world leaders think
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4895212.stm


It is a follow-up to one he wrote in January 2005 in which he suggested that an air attack on Iran was possible. What is new is that he raises the prospect that such an attack might be nuclear in nature.

However, the problems of using a nuclear weapon would be so huge that few people are taking this seriously. The British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw said the idea was "completely nuts".


"Nobody was advocating it, they were just saying a 100% guarantee. Where it becomes interesting, the joint chiefs, in one of its subsequent papers, wanted to withdraw that option because of course it's madness, a nuclear weapon in the Middle East to an Arab [sic] Muslim country, my God. And the White House won't withdraw.

[pupa]

Fighting Rhetoric with Rhetoric, all just flexing muscle ughm! voice muscle?

[bwana]

Hersh himself downplayed the prospect. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4895212.stm)So the author of the New Yorker story doesnt think it's likely?

I'm sure somewhere in the basement of the Pentagon there is a contingency plan for invading just about every country in the world, including SA. I'm not going to start digging a bunker just yet.

[pupa]

Back in the day when Germany were at war with almost everyone it made perfect sense to attack the nation.

We're talking about IRAN. A country that has NEVER waged war outside it's borders? Yet america wants to NUKE it? There has NEVER been conclusive proof that Osama Bin Laden led the terrorist attacks on america. There were no wmd in Iraq (there wasnt even a formidable army).

But I suppose some people in this world find it okay to kill innocent people after all they are arabs and as america proclaims... arabs are all evil and all want to crush western ideals.

IMHO George Bush is as bad as Lenin. IMHO if America attacks IRAN in this manner you can kiss my world and your world as we know it good bye.

Because the anti american sentiment that is brewing around the world is going to boil over. Remember pride comes before the fall.

I thought this was all about the fact that Iran is threatening to wipe Israel off the map and wanting to create nukes?

On the other hand they are the major funders of extremist Islamic terrorist groups. Must the world wait for a nuke to explode like 9/11 before they react?
If the Terrorists get hold of nukes it would be the end anyway and it is nuts to contemlate USA will use a nuke as first strike, they do not need to as all systems is designed to go off when a attack is detected as eminent or already started!

[nocilah]

hey if you dont mind a black planet then support george bush. i am certainly happy that south africa doesnt...

imagine we wanted to build a power station and america threatens us with a nuclear strike. fun eh?

as far as i am concerned geroge bush is the biggest terrorist on earth and i do not believe for one second the man is a christian and next to mugabe they are 1 in the same.

i truly hope if Iran are atacked north korea or china manage to send a few nukes over to america. i am thinking washington dc and new york would be great. maybe if luck is on their side they can nail california too.

we can all have fun watching our world burn while celion dion sings love songs. all because of a defiant american southerner who is bent by greed.

[nocilah]

If the Terrorists get hold of nukes it would be the end anyway and it is nuts to contemlate USA will use a nuke as first strike

they have announced that they WILL and they refuse to withdraw it even though almost every leader on earth is saying it's nuts.

i have no issue of america attacking if provoked but the sad tale here is that IRAN is being provoked and if america attack first i have no issue if america gets nuked by China, North Korea and other Eastern countries because sadly that is what will happen.

dont get me wrong either... i dont think all americans are evil. but the ones in power? i question their motives.

[pupa]

I Understand, That's what the majority in this country would say as we, our GVT, support Cuba, Gaddafi, Palestine, Mugabe etc etc. Anti Bush or for that matter USA, Anti British or Blair Thus Anti west as we knew it. So it is a common human phenomena to move with the pack, as can be seen on this forum, I stand on my own, have my own mind and convictions on this one!

[Chris]

Halicon, why are you objecting to a country being attacked that:

A) Supports terrorists groups

B) Are not using it for power but for nuclear weapons (this is a fact, just wait for IAEA report to UN Security Council)

C) Threatened to "wipe Israel off the map"

Yes the US might have other motives (oil) but if it gets rid of a mad-man then I'm all for it.

[nocilah]

Halicon, why are you objecting to a country being attacked that:

A) Supports terrorists groups
because there is more evidence that there are NO terrorists then there are


B) Are not using it for power but for nuclear weapons (this is a fact, just wait for IAEA report to UN Security Council)
according to usa yes, according to IRAN they want alternative energy resrouces


C) Threatened to "wipe Israel off the map"
words vs actions... i trust iran more then usa


Yes the US might have other motives (oil) but if it gets rid of a mad-man then I'm all for it.

explain why this man is mad?

[pupa]

He supports and fund these actions, but ZAR citizens is in denial so what is the issue?

http://www.mweb.co.za/news/?p=top_articles&i=124872
http://www.mweb.co.za/news/?p=top_articles&i=124832

And the next bulletin may well say Iran believe it's their right as they fund it!
And the next one ZAR and the majority of the electorate agrees and sympathise with the course of the Palestinians

So we see your twisting of the real issue is fruitless, susses the mind!

[Chris]

Support for PLO:


The Palestinian organization most loyal to the Iranian revolutionary ideology is the Palestinian Islamic Jihad. In spite of it being a Sunni organization, the Iranian revolution sees in it an example to be followed. After the deportation of its leader, Fathi Sh***i, from the Gaza Strip, the ties between Iran and the organization have been strengthened, particularly in the field of Iranian military assistance. Instructors of the Guardians of the Revolution give regular military instruction courses to the organization's activists from the Territories and abroad, as well as in the Hizballah camps in Lebanon and Iran. Iran also provides the organization’s activists with logistic support, including Iranian identitificatio papers.

Support for Hamas:


The Palestinian organization most loyal to the Iranian revolutionary ideology is the Palestinian Islamic Jihad. In spite of it being a Sunni organization, the Iranian revolution sees in it an example to be followed. After the deportation of its leader, Fathi Sh***i, from the Gaza Strip, the ties between Iran and the organization have been strengthened, particularly in the field of Iranian military assistance. Instructors of the Guardians of the Revolution give regular military instruction courses to the organization's activists from the Territories and abroad, as well as in the Hizballah camps in Lebanon and Iran. Iran also provides the organization’s activists with logistic support, including Iranian identitification papers.
http://www.ict.org.il/articles/articledet.cfm?articleid=14#organizations

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction


An additional point made by nuclear proliferation experts is that no country has historically been found to have a covert uranium enrichment program that was not later linked to a nuclear weapons project. All prior discoveries other than Iran were eventually linked to weapons programs.


Iran is believed to have a current inventory of at least 25 to 100 Shahab-3 missiles which have a range of 1300km and are capable of being armed with conventional high explosive, submunition, chemical, biological, radiological dispersion and potentially nuclear warheads

The article is a bit out of date since last week Iran were parading a nuclear warhead on a Shahab-3 missile.

4. He's a madman because he said [in a weekend paper] that he can defeat the USA. LOL.

[nocilah]

so all this justifies america essentially nuking a country?

perhaps america should be nuked because after all it is the same thing

[bwana]

so all this justifies america essentially nuking a country?

perhaps america should be nuked because after all it is the same thingThey havent nuked a country since the 1940's.
i truly hope if Iran are atacked north korea or china manage to send a few nukes over to america. i am thinking washington dc and new york would be great. maybe if luck is on their side they can nail california too.

we can all have fun watching our world burn while celion dion sings love songs. all because of a defiant american southerner who is bent by greed.So you're hoping for the end of the world?

[nocilah]

to put this whole argument into perspective we all agree mugabe is a 'mad' man. his policies and ideals are non beneficial to his people and his country.

lets say he gains access to nuclear weapons?

is this a justified reason to engage in tactical nuclear strikes against zimbabwe. take out their leader and perhaps a couple hundred thousand civilians?

America are playing the terrorist card all too often and alot of people here are sucking it in like little sheep.

America are great because they brought us all these funky technologies. America are great because of Macdonalds, Nike and Addidas? America must win and rule because they will ensure my selfish lifestyle is maintained and if a couple hundred thousand rag heads need to die then so be it?

Iran are only saying contreversial things because they are being threatened by the most powerful nation on earth... ...unfairly.

[nocilah]

So you're hoping for the end of the world?

No... America is not my world. I said IF Iran are attacked I cetianly hope america get burnt by this deed of theirs... burnt and scarred to show the world what a mistake it was to run around flexing your muscles.

China are as powerful if not more and they certianly dont behave like idiots... but they might act like big brothers to countries like America.

If the nuclear holocaust comes you can blame your idol 'America' for it.

As far as i am concerned i lost all respect for america when they attacked IRAQ for no reason what so ever... unless you like President Bush and believe they had WMD.

[nocilah]

Washington / Tehran - The US has prepared several plans to attack Iran since 2003, reported a former intelligence expert with the US military on Sunday in the Washington Post.

According to security analyst William Arkin, the US central command has been devising war scenarios with Iran at least since May 2003, shortly after the US-led invasion of neighbouring Iraq.

and you all believe this is some case of defending the freedom of people in the world? more like america planning world domination...

yup united slaves of america is coming unless we burn to the stench of nuclear fires.

well if hating america is terrorist then i am a terrorist.

[Chris]

so all this justifies america essentially nuking a country?

perhaps america should be nuked because after all it is the same thing

Oh really? The US has basically given Iran years to disband their nuclear program so I have no sympathy if they get nuked. (Democratic 'negogiations' do fail - see WW2 as an example)

How is it the same thing? They arn't saying wipe the country off the map - merely to remove dictators who pose a threat to America. (yes again it could be by-product of getting oil but it's not a bad thing he'll get removed)


is this a justified reason to engage in tactical nuclear strikes against zimbabwe. take out their leader and perhaps a couple hundred thousand civilians?

America are playing the terrorist card all too often and alot of people here are sucking it in like little sheep.

Probably they won't use nukes - they'll get extremely bad PR if they kill "starving" civilians and most don't support Mugabe (the election was clearly rigged)

On the other hand you see lots of people supporting the Iranian President and who (probably) arn't starving. They can hardly be classified as "innocent" if they're chanting anti-American songs and wish "Death to America" etc.



China are as powerful if not more and they certianly dont behave like idiots... but they might act like big brothers to countries like America.

That isn't going to happen to soon - Americans have anti-missile technology to shoot down nukes. Also with the release of the new F22A Fighter (http://www.spacemart.com/reports/USAF_Declares_Initial_Operating_Capability_For_F22 A_Raptor_Jet_Fighter.html) the American Army increased their already superior air dominance even further.

[nivek]

to deny the fact Iran doesnt want nuclear technology for the sake of aquiring a nuclear weapon is as pointless as showering after sex with an hiv positive woman.. It was just last week Iran were bragging in the news, showing off their new missiles..

[Gooku]

USA is in need of a great leader like the late Ronald Reagan

who won World War 3 (the cold war) , destroyed USSR without firing a single warhead.

IMO greatest strategist in modern time.

[ajak]

By Ryan Jones
April 16th, 2006

Overall Hamas leader Khaled Mashal Saturday again gave the lie to the international media's ficticious portrayal of Hamas as a movement reluctantly moderating itself towards recognition of and coexistence with Israel.

Speaking to a conference in Tehran supporting the "Palestinian cause" against the Jewish state, Mashal stated emphatically that:

"The Palestinians will never recognize Israel."

If the predictions of his host, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, prove true, recognition of Israel won't be an issue Mashal and Hamas have to deal with very much longer.

As the conference kicked off Friday, Ahmadinejad told the gathering, which included representatives of most "Palestinian" terror groups, that the land Israel calls its own "will be freed soon."

"Like it or not, the Zionist regime is heading toward annihilation. The Zionist regime is a rotten, dried tree that will be eliminated by one storm."

Islam, which is the cornerstone of both Hamas' and Ahmadinejad's stated policies, views Israel's rebirth on lands once under its dominion as an afront and a primary obstacle in its path to global subjugation to the will of Allah. Removing the Jewish state is recognized as the first step to getting back on track.

Holding firm to Islam's assurance of ultimate victory, Hamas leaders continue defy Western demands that they moderate and accept Israel's sovereignty, confident that American and European financial pressure will soon crumble under the weight of humanitarian concerns and political considerations.

[Freshy-ZN]

Iran is a country full of religious extremists, run by religious extremists who threaten to wipe a whole country, Israel, from the map, have a nuclear 'program' and parade missiles in the streets.

WTF is the US supposed to do huh?

Hate Americans all you want but if it wasnt for them we would all be speaking German and goose-stepping all over the place. Saddam Hussein needed to be taken down. If the US needed to 'exagerate' certain things to shut the bunny huggers and Liberals up so that the job could be done: so be it. The Taliban needed to be taken down too.

Just be thankful there was oil to be had by the US or there would possibly have not been enough motive to do the jobs that needed doing. After all, do you think the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were cheap? Hell no, they cost s1tload of dollars.

[nocilah]

dictators who pose a threat to America.

uh huh? now IRAN is threatening america? oh wait israel is american?

you're protecting america is what you are doing. you saying it's okay if america use NUKES but if IRAN use NUKES then they are BAD and terrorists.

u're sucked deep into the plastic and synthetic security of america being your beeg daddy. u're a united slave of america. congratulations.

[nocilah]

Iran is a country full of religious extremists, run by religious extremists who threaten to wipe a whole country, Israel, from the map, have a nuclear 'program' and parade missiles in the streets.

lets change the country names shall we?


America is a country full of religious extremists, run by religious extremists who threaten to wipe a whole country, IRAN, from the map, America have a nuclear 'program' and parade missiles in the streets.

So if america parade misiles in the streets (which they do) and preach the word of God, which they do and threaten to wipe a whole country with NUCLEAR STRIKES its OKAY.

There's that logic.


Hate Americans all you want but if it wasnt for them we would all be speaking German and goose-stepping all over the place. Saddam Hussein needed to be taken down. If the US needed to 'exagerate' certain things to shut the bunny huggers and Liberals up so that the job could be done: so be it. The Taliban needed to be taken down too.

so what you saying is it's okay for america to lie. so dont complain about OUR goverment or else you're just being hypocritcal.
btw Taliban were created by America and Saddam Hussein was created by America... do your homework and you will see these wars have been put into place long ago... someone mentioned Reagon as a great strategists... indeed he was beacuse look at how the chess game has turned out


Just be thankful there was oil to be had by the US or there would possibly have not been enough motive to do the jobs that needed doing. After all, do you think the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were cheap? Hell no, they cost s1tload of dollars.

er... wait you are telling me that america ONLY did this for oil? so it really has nothing to do with terrorists, dictators or nuclear programs? hrmm interesting... i see you too are a united slave of america. congratulations.

[Highflyer_GP]

Oh really? The US has basically given Iran years to disband their nuclear program so I have no sympathy if they get nuked. (Democratic 'negogiations' do fail - see WW2 as an example)

How is it the same thing? They arn't saying wipe the country off the map - merely to remove dictators who pose a threat to America. (yes again it could be by-product of getting oil but it's not a bad thing he'll get removed)
On the other hand you see lots of people supporting the Iranian President and who (probably) arn't starving. They can hardly be classified as "innocent" if they're chanting anti-American songs and wish "Death to America" etc.

i dont wanna take sides on this issue but i have to ask the question, who in the flying fsck is america to order other countries to disband programs? so why should other countries disband their nukes yet only america is allowed to keep theirs active? i understand its a question of national security and the like, but thats like saying since america has active nuclear warheads south africa should order america to disband their warheads since it poses a risk to our national security. the iranians are acting the way that they are because they were provoked by bush's threat of declaring war.

with the skyrocketting price of crude oil, do you really think its justified for them to declare war on a country so that the byproduct may be to remove a dictator. think of the consequences. do you really want such a large amount of oil supply going only to america while the rest of the world suffers from shortages? unless you're quite happy to pay R30 a litre, i certainly am not.

edit: an no it wasn't exclusively america who put an end to the germans, it was the allied forces, a joint effort by a number of countries. yes they nuked nagasaki and hiroshima, but countless lives from a number of other countries were lost in an effort to put an end to the war. should we forget about all these people who gave their lives for the fate of the world?

[Freshy-ZN]

lets change the country names shall we?



So if america parade misiles in the streets (which they do) and preach the word of God, which they do and threaten to wipe a whole country with NUCLEAR STRIKES its OKAY.

There's that logic.



so what you saying is it's okay for america to lie. so dont complain about OUR goverment or else you're just being hypocritcal.
btw Taliban were created by America and Saddam Hussein was created by America... do your homework and you will see these wars have been put into place long ago... someone mentioned Reagon as a great strategists... indeed he was beacuse look at how the chess game has turned out



er... wait you are telling me that america ONLY did this for oil? so it really has nothing to do with terrorists, dictators or nuclear programs? hrmm interesting... i see you too are a united slave of america. congratulations.

Make no mistake, Im no fan of America and her current foreign policy. Then again im also not in favour of religious extremists with nuclear weapons. If one suicide bomber can cause so much havoc (in the name of Islam) imagine what the Iranian leadership could do with nukes? I didnt mention in my previous post but I am NOT in favour of the US nuking Iran (personally dont think it will happen) however, realistically it is not surprising that America has considered all available options. It would be silly of them not too. You have plans A through whatever. Doesnt mean you use the most extreme but thats what planning is all about. Dont you think that America is using scare tactics by 'leaking' the possible plans for a nuke strike on Iran?

You may say that because America has a nuclear arsenal that they have no right to deny other states the same?? What a lot of utter nonsense! America, Russia, France, UK, Germany etc developed their nukes as a result of an entirely different set of circumstances. Iran doesnt need nukes for defense. They want nukes to gain power. If you think this whole situation is a mess, wait till North Korea starts really flexing. They are watching closely how America handles Iran. They too want the power of the nuke.

America and its European allies at least have a largely rational population (people like us) which would in theory not allow such drastic measures. Iran doesnt have a rational populace. They are religious fanatics who probably dont really care about dying in a nuke war if they are 'promised' instant salvation.

Therein lies the danger of Iran developing nuclear weapons. If you are comfortable with that...then as you say: congratulations.

[craigsa]

I fully support strikes against Iran. Nuke them first before they nuke us.

[nocilah]

Make no mistake, Im no fan of America and her current foreign policy. Then again im also not in favour of religious extremists with nuclear weapons. If one suicide bomber can cause so much havoc (in the name of Islam) imagine what the Iranian leadership could do with nukes? I didnt mention in my previous post but I am NOT in favour of the US nuking Iran (personally dont think it will happen) however, realistically it is not surprising that America has considered all available options. It would be silly of them not too. You have plans A through whatever. Doesnt mean you use the most extreme but thats what planning is all about. Dont you think that America is using scare tactics by 'leaking' the possible plans for a nuke strike on Iran?

I agree, certain behaviours of the Muslim culture and countries are regarded as extremist in our "western" eyes. To be perfectly honest as much as i dislike America and their ways I would still prefer to live there then in a Muslim run country. After reflecting on the whole America vs Iran issue I think i have calmed down somewhat realising America would be stupid to launch nuclear strikes against IRan and for the sake of peace and stability i certainly hope they do not.


You may say that because America has a nuclear arsenal that they have no right to deny other states the same?? What a lot of utter nonsense! America, Russia, France, UK, Germany etc developed their nukes as a result of an entirely different set of circumstances. Iran doesnt need nukes for defense. They want nukes to gain power. If you think this whole situation is a mess, wait till North Korea starts really flexing. They are watching closely how America handles Iran. They too want the power of the nuke.

There in lies the danger. All we need is one unstable American leader (George Bush) to push the button on their nuclear arsenal and we're farked. I think it is only fair that each country is disallowed nuclear arms, but in reality this will never happen... then counter meassures need to be developed. If China or North Korea are militarily roused by this America vs Iran issue then we are possibly farked.


America and its European allies at least have a largely rational population (people like us) which would in theory not allow such drastic measures.

that is a debate in itself. Define rational? What "we" might define as rational might be defined as insane by someone else and hence we get wars etc...


Iran doesnt have a rational populace. They are religious fanatics who probably dont really care about dying in a nuke war if they are 'promised' instant salvation.

is religion ever rational?


Therein lies the danger of Iran developing nuclear weapons. If you are comfortable with that...then as you say: congratulations.

I would be more comfortable with America cooling down and letting the UN deal with the issue first and only use a non-nuclear strike as an ultimate last resort. I am also highly uncomfortable with America's true intentions and interests into Iran remembering that China gets alot of it's oil from Iran which makes for a delicate situation.

Right now i am happy I am not living in America or Iran.

[killadoob]

i'll say it again end of the world is this year

[Freshy-ZN]

I think personally that the fact that we already have countries with nuclear capabilties is concern enough. We dont need more. Iran is more. North Korea is more. America, Russia etc have gone some way in reducing their nuclear arsenals, give them a little credit. It is not necessary for Iran to have them, period.

[Freshy-ZN]

i'll say it again end of the world is this year

Should I abuse my cap and not pay Telkom then?

[nocilah]

Should I abuse my cap and not pay Telkom then?

we could 'nuke' telkom HQ and blame america or iran :D

[nocilah]

I think personally that the fact that we already have countries with nuclear capabilties is concern enough. We dont need more. Iran is more. North Korea is more. America, Russia etc have gone some way in reducing their nuclear arsenals, give them a little credit. It is not necessary for Iran to have them, period.

I am highly interested wether Iran are being honest in saying that they just want to develop alternative fuels.

I do understand the suspicious around a country wanting to develop alternate fuel resources when they sitting on a whole bunch of oil.

My final view point is America need to chill out and take a back seat and let the UN sort this out diplomatically.

[pupa]

I am highly interested wether Iran are being honest in saying that they just want to develop alternative fuels.

I do understand the suspicious around a country wanting to develop alternate fuel resources when they sitting on a whole bunch of oil.

My final view point is America need to chill out and take a back seat and let the UN sort this out diplomatically.

Spot on. USA Rulez, kill the martians!... I mean martyr''s

[Angelo]

I am highly interested wether Iran are being honest in saying that they just want to develop alternative fuels.

Before we can even start entertaining this issue we must debate why is there no big fuss about USA, France, Britain, China, Israel etc having nuclear weapons which are not even in development but ready for deployment.

[bwana]

Before we can even start entertaining this issue we must debate why is there no big fuss about USA, France, Britain, China, Israel etc having nuclear weapons which are not even in development but ready for deployment.This might provide a bit of background. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Non-Proliferation_Treaty

[Angelo]

This might provide a bit of background. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Non-Proliferation_Treaty
These documents are used just when it's convenient for the US, I mean how many of these treaties did the US break when they defied the UN and the rest of the world to invade Iraq?

[ajak]

Before we can even start entertaining this issue we must debate why is there no big fuss about USA, France, Britain, China, Israel etc having nuclear weapons which are not even in development but ready for deployment.

You ask why is there no fuss about USA, France, Britain, China, Israel, having the bomb, it simple really, unlike them r@gheads, these countries are not crazy. I mean think about it, they encourage their young peeps to blow themselves up, that is way f #ckedup.

[bwana]

These documents are used just when it's convenient for the US, I mean how many of these treaties did the US break when they defied the UN and the rest of the world to invade Iraq?Did you read the article? Notice the long list of countries at the end that are signatories of the NPT?

Anyhow, the NPT had little to do with the invasion of Iraq.

BTW the following countries supported the US position on Iraq:

Afghanistan, Albania, Angola, Australia, Azerbaijan, Bulgaria, Colombia, Costa Rica, Czech Republic, Denmark, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Eritrea, Estonia, Ethiopia, Georgia, Honduras, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Japan, Kuwait, Latvia, Lithuania, Republic of Macedonia, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Mongolia, Netherlands, Nicaragua, Palau, Panama, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Rwanda, Singapore, Slovakia, South Korea, Spain, Tonga, Turkey, Uganda, Ukraine, United Kingdom, United States, and Uzbekistan.

So it was hardly defying the world. Still, thats for another debate.

[Chris]

i dont wanna take sides on this issue but i have to ask the question, who in the flying fsck is america to order other countries to disband programs? so why should other countries disband their nukes yet only america is allowed to keep theirs active? i understand its a question of national security and the like, but thats like saying since america has active nuclear warheads south africa should order america to disband their warheads since it poses a risk to our national security. the iranians are acting the way that they are because they were provoked by bush's threat of declaring war.

As already pointed out, Iran is an extremist nation who have a high chance of using nukes even though they're unprovoked. The US hasn't used a nuke for over half a century. People are having an irrational fear of the US using nukes when unprovoked. I mean if the US really wanted to use nukes, they could've bombed the Soviet Union.


with the skyrocketting price of crude oil, do you really think its justified for them to declare war on a country so that the byproduct may be to remove a dictator. think of the consequences. do you really want such a large amount of oil supply going only to america while the rest of the world suffers from shortages? unless you're quite happy to pay R30 a litre, i certainly am not.

Where do you get the "all the oil goes to America". Yes American companies will get the contracts but that's better than the possibility of Middle-Eastern countries cutting off oil completely and making prices skyrocket.

[ajak]

Nazis, Arabs planned Final Solution for pre-state Israel
New study: Special SS squad formed for Jews of 'Palestine'
By Stan Goodenough
April 10th, 2006
Nazi Germans responding to the pleas of Palestinian Arabs planned to open up a "branch" of the Holocaust in the Land of Israel and exterminate the half-a-million Jews then living in the land in line with Adolph Hitler's plan to rid mankind of its "Jewish problem."
According to reports carried in the Israeli press over the weekend, a new study by two German historians has revealed that in 1942 the Nazis created a special SS force - one of its mobile death squads known as "Einsatzgruppe" - tasked to do to the Jews in British-mandated Palestine what was being done to them in Poland and other parts of Europe.
Called the "Einsatzgruppe Egypt," this Jew-killing force was formed shortly after "Palestinian" leader Haj Amin al-Husseini, the Mufti of Jerusalem, personally visited Hitler in Berlin and offered the services of his people to the cause of the Third Reich.
By then nationalism was burgeoning among the Arabs of Palestine who -- motivated by their religious beliefs which taught hatred of the Jews and rejection of Jewish sovereignty over any territory previously under Islamic rule -- were despairing of their own efforts to prevent the rebirth of the Jewish state.
For them, the rise of Nazi Germany was an answer to their daily prayers for help from "Allah and the Prophet."
Two years earlier al-Husseini messaged Hitler to congratulate him:
"...on the occasion of [your] great political and military triumphs....The Arab nation everywhere feels the greatest joy and deepest gratification on the occasion of these great successes.... The Arab people...confidently expect the result of your final victory will be their independence and complete liberation.... [T]hey will [then] be linked to your country by a treaty of friendship and collaboration."
In late 1941 al-Husseini arrived in Mussolini's Rome and, after conversing with Il Duce and the Fuhrer, got the Fascist and Nazi leaders to make a joint pronouncement committing their nations to helping in "the elimination of the Jewish national home in Palestine."
Follow-up meetings between the Mufti and Hitler found an understanding, according to the American historian Howard M. Sachar, whereby Hitler's forces would invade Palestine with the goal being "not the occupation of the Arab lands but solely the destruction of Palestine Jewry."
According to a report in Ynetnews Saturday, "the director of the Nazi research centre in Ludwigsburg, Klaus-Michael Mallman, and Berlin historian Martin Cueppers say an Einsatzgruppe was all set to go to Palestine and begin killing the roughly half-a-million Jews that had fled Europe to escape Nazi death camps like Auschwitz and Birkenau."
This special death squad led by Obersturmbannfuehrer Walther Rauff was attached to Rommel's Africa Korps and was waiting in Athens for the British to be driven from the Levant.
Wrote Mallman and Cueppers: "The central plan for the group was the realisation of the Holocaust in Palestine."
Though he may never have realized the wider impact of his actions, the great British general Bernard Montgomery saved the Jews of Palestine when he hurled Rommel's forces back at El Alamein.
The "Einsatzgruppe Egypt" never left Athens.
It was the beginning of the end for Hitler, who saw his primary calling and mission as being to "cleanse" the world, not just Europe, but of all Jews.
His efforts to do so were facilitated by the centuries of Christian Judenhaas that preceded him, and notably by the teachings of the great reformer Martin Luther, to whose antisemitic railings Hitler appealed as he sought to justify the genocide of European Jewry.
Even as he saw defeat coming, the Nazi leader frantically increased the efforts to realize his goal. His Einsatzgruppe were ultimately responsible, by their own admission, for killing one million of Hitler's six million Jewish victims.
Much to the vexation of al-Husseini and his followers, they did not get to the Jews of Palestine. Nonetheless, the same hatred and religious fervor that drove the Mufti to applaud Hitler and seek to collaborate in his final solution persists in the Arab world today.
"The only thing we have against Hitler," wrote popular Egyptian columnist Anis Mansour a number of years ago, "is that he did not finish with the Jews."
If they had the idea then,dont they still have it?

[ajak]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8884648292925739980&q=iran

[Gooku]

Nuclear weapon
- takes the collective ingenuity of the entire nation to build it
yet
It takes the same amount of stupidity to use it. - Gooku 2006


edited to make more sense in current situation ........
_________________________________________________
DBZ fans

Super Saiyan 1 transformation totally completed, gooku > Gooku

I am now a hair-standing-up-blond (when I fight)
.

[antowan]

damn the power hungry americans :mad:

Rather them than some other folks... If I have to choose between two devils, one big and one small, I choose the small one. ;)

[daysleeper]

i wish iran would use their nuclear weapons on telkom!

[pupa]

Nazis, Arabs planned Final Solution for pre-state Israel
?
Wont put it beyond the extremist muslims! Maybe that is what the Palestine's is all about as they are Irans outcasts! Handy to give them a Job to do! keeps them away from Iran!

[Nod]

America always have to push their big guns in everybody's face. Maybe they have a "small problem" :)

[ajak]

http://www.planetvirtuel.com/

[pupa]

http://www.planetvirtuel.com/
Hmmm, cool They say if the clock stops then it was dooms day and you will read it on the front page of the Sun the next morning the day after!

[nocilah]

America is angry

"yeeehaw!" said the cowboy as it shot the indian in the back in self defense.

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_1920624,00.html

[ajak]

Al these windbags strutting their stuff, mine is bigger than yours, bu****, lett them fly i say/put some ladies in there to take over before the whole thing get out of hand

[pupa]

America is angry

"yeeehaw!" said the cowboy as it shot the indian in the back in self defense.

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_1920624,00.html
Shot him in the back as he was running as precaution as he would return and kill him and his family if he did not. Diplomacy would not have worked here either! All wars are brutal even the African wars between the natives at that time were brutal and unfounded! So why hammer the Cowboy. Heehaw! That's why Bush should sort out the extremists and rogue countries to prevent a holocaust. Diplomacy never worked with rogues as it would not have with the Indians!

[nocilah]

Diplomacy never worked with rogues as it would not have with the Indians!

:rolleyes:

[pupa]

:rolleyes:
At last some agreement! Thx.

[Vio]

The big problem is this, IRAN persident saiz ISRAEL should not exist and be wiped off the map followed by them persuing nuclear weapons.

[pupa]

The big problem is this, IRAN persident saiz ISRAEL should not exist and be wiped off the map followed by them persuing nuclear weapons.
Yeah and now some zealots here claims that the West must have dialogue with them, "Diplomacy" thats what they call it! Would diplomacy have worked with Iraq? did it work with Korea? Will it work with Iran. NO! Diplomacy cannot work with extremists and rogues or Palestinians. Simply as the fact that diplomacy do not work if you have a delinquent kid or groups with extremist ideas only where there is common grounds for agreement, to agree to disagree!

[nocilah]

At last some agreement! Thx.

phew, you are not the sharpest knife in the draw today.
you make the perfect american bush supporter! :D

[pupa]

phew, you are not the sharpest knife in the draw today.
you make the perfect american bush supporter! :D
Thanx! it was deliberate, and at least also not the bluntest. as that is reserved for the TK thread me think! (Joking) American Yes Bush, well I actually do not like the guy, Admire his guts that's it. For me Clinton was the man, tho would not know what he would have done, Then off course peanut farmer would have given it all away! It just comical on this forum how everything happening is blamed either on the USA, Apartheid, The previous regime, The white Afrikaner....etc. They are all made the scapegoats for lack of Governance, financial creative Fcuckups and hammered as racists if they differ from opinion!

[Nanfeishen]

Rogue nations, power hungry megalomaniacs, politicians, terrorists, criminals, dictators, racists, oil tycoons and telkom, in the words of the great Emperor Palpatine, "Wipe them out, ALL of them".

[Vio]

Rogue nations, power hungry megalomaniacs, politicians, terrorists, criminals, dictators, racists, oil tycoons and telkom, in the words of the great Emperor Palpatine, "Wipe them out, ALL of them".

LOL that is quite funny, because "Wipe them out, ALL of them" is something that one of those ppl you describe would do :)

You know Iran is perusing nuclear weapons but they say it’s for "peaceful purposes", the Nazi’s used the exact same tactic before the start of WWII.

I feel that any country with "radical/extremist" views should be crushed if they threaten the safety of the international community.

Another example of this is hamas in palatine, sure they where democratically elected, but that means they must act responsibly, hell Hitler was democratically elected...

[nocilah]

and so was george bush democratically elected. funny how its OKAY if usa attack any nation on earth... but not OKAY if another country decides to attack someone....

because somehow america are not radical extremists?!? :confused:

after IRAQ and their failure to prove or justify the war? pfft... the only extreme and radical country so far has been america.

[pupa]

and so was george bush democratically elected. funny how its OKAY if usa attack any nation on earth... but not OKAY if another country decides to attack someone....

because somehow america are not radical extremists?!? :confused:

after IRAQ and their failure to prove or justify the war? pfft... the only extreme and radical country so far has been america.
USA do it with their own and others interests at heart! I fully support that "preventative" measure and hope there will be another soon. USA kept the peace in this world at large since 1945. Due to their actions and policy's. Due to guys like you an rogue nation will someday, sooner than later start the next WWIII, not USA.

[nivek]

Well if it wasnt for the US being the big daddy of the world, you'd either be wearing a turban or dead.. If it wasnt for the US U could kiss, christianity and judaism goodbye..

http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=269850&area=/breaking_news/breaking_news__africa/

"Down with the agents of America and down with agents promoting Satanic teaching," they yelled, according to an Agence France-Presse correspondent on the scene.

what do you think Satanic teaching is?

[pupa]

Well if it wasnt for the US being the big daddy of the world, you'd either be wearing a turban or dead.. If it wasnt for the US U could kiss, christianity and judaism goodbye..

http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=269850&area=/breaking_news/breaking_news__africa/
Some more sick b@stads!:mad: They crawl out everywhere!

[nocilah]

USA kept the peace in this world at large since 1945.

riight! :rolleyes:

[bekdik]

Wildlife defies Chernobyl radiation

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4923342.stm

[pupa]

riight! :rolleyes:
Ok man! Peace for democracy! by keeping the rogues at bay! Where were you during the cold war?

[pupa]

Wildlife defies Chernobyl radiation

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4923342.stm
Read that! Interesting, power of natures renewal! Wonder whether the mutations that "speeded up evolution" will become apparent here with all the radiation that was there!:D

[Roman4604]

So if the Iranian gov. had to eventually build a nuke or two, what would be the risk of them using them? Surely even a hard core Jihaddi understands the concept of MAD (mutually assured destruction)?

Would they be that doff to attack either of their 2 arch enemies, US or Israel? They must know that retribution would be swift and overwhelmingly disproportionate. Even if they conspired with an 'independant' group and gave them the ability to set of a nuke in the above 2, both would hold them accountable anyway.

Surely they understand there's a big difference between martyring a few 'warriors' and martyring your entire nation?

[nocilah]

So if the Iranian gov. had to eventually build a nuke or two, what would be the risk of them using them? Surely even a hard core Jihaddi understands the concept of MAD (mutually assured destruction)?

Would they be that doff to attack either of their 2 arch enemies, US or Israel? They must know that retribution would be swift and overwhelmingly disproportionate. Even if they conspired with an 'independant' group and gave them the ability to set of a nuke in the above 2, both would hold them accountable anyway.

Surely they understand there's a big difference between martyring a few 'warriors' and martyring your entire nation?

i think america painted itself a target when it started jumping up and down wanting to play cowboys and arabs.

[Roman4604]

i think america painted itself a target when it started jumping up and down wanting to play cowboys and arabs.Question remains would they actually do it?

[Chris]

So if the Iranian gov. had to eventually build a nuke or two, what would be the risk of them using them? Surely even a hard core Jihaddi understands the concept of MAD (mutually assured destruction)?

Would they be that doff to attack either of their 2 arch enemies, US or Israel? They must know that retribution would be swift and overwhelmingly disproportionate. Even if they conspired with an 'independant' group and gave them the ability to set of a nuke in the above 2, both would hold them accountable anyway.

Surely they understand there's a big difference between martyring a few 'warriors' and martyring your entire nation?

I'm not so sure. Remember we had an Iraqi Minister whose nickname was "Chemical Ali" and he said the Iraqi's were winning the war (on national tv) while the US were clearly in control.

I don't think logic comes easily to Middle-Eastern leaders. Also I'm quite sure just 1 nuclear missile can wipe out Israel so they'd have achieved their goal of 'wiping Israel off the map'

[Roman4604]

I don't think logic comes easily to Middle-Eastern leaders.They would have to be absolute morons, totally diconnected with reality, to not care about the conequences of these stakes.


Also I'm quite sure just 1 nuclear missile can wipe out Israel so they'd have achieved their goal of 'wiping Israel off the map'A missile would be too easily detectable and linkable to them. I assume Israel's method of nuclear delivery would be to use fighter/bombers that would be scrambled on the first sign of a launch. Nuclear retaliation would be assured.

A more likely scenario would be a truck bomb smuggled into one of Israel's large cities, however I dont believe they would have the resources to build anything larger than a few kilotons (equiv. to say Hiroshima = 20kt), so they may take out most of the city, but certian not the whole country. Especially not disperesed hardened military bases where they nukes/planes reside. Again nuclear retaliation would be assured.

So I dont see them doing it realistically ... just my 2c.

[nocilah]

Question remains would they actually do it?

i dont think Iran would... since Israels conception almost every arab leader has said something 'contreversial' about Israel.

i dont think Iran would ever fly a nuke over to Israel bcuz they are aware of the consequences... unless ofcourse they dont care.

In which case i still dont understand what America's problem is. They seem to disallow anyone from doing anything except themselves. e.g. I am sure Israel is more then capable of fsking up iran but would america allow it?