Land reform will have effects for the future beyond what we think...

antowan

antowan

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http://www.fin24.co.za/articles/eco...sp?Nav=ns&lvl2=econ&ArticleID=1518-25_1928564

I think there are now issues of people now moving back onto soon to be arid land. They will now occupy land which we know in most cases turn out to be unworked and sometime down the line will end up for sale again. What happens to the people now living on the land making a subsistance living when a new owner comes along? How are you going to convince everybody to leave? Even getting most to move off the land will be a monumental feat without government interferance and that will be doubtful. This land will most likely go into disuse due to the current land restitution effort for more than 50 years!

Our country is now poorer for it.

Why is it necessary to give people their land back? I don't know of an option where a monetary compensation is offered instead of moving people back onto land. Surely this would be a better solution than moving people back. At least give people the option, because what is happening now will take close to 100 years to fix if at all...
 
But it doesnt matter. The ANC has "given people their land back" and for that they will be eternally rewarded with votes.
 
Very sad yes. I would also have thought a monetary solution would solve 2 problems, that of the claimant and that of the lawful owner. Remember these properties have been legally acquired by their current owners. I would like to know from these claimant’s what they did with the land they were swapped to and the money they received to re-settle. The way things are presented is as if people were just moved and left destitute. I would like to see documented proof that people moved were worse off. Also remember that people were moved from both sides.

Another aspect that I cannot understand is the large % of land government owns. How much of those claims have been simply swiped of the table. Surely someone occupied those areas of state owned land before it became state property? Or is it because there has been no improvement on those areas of property that nobody wants to reclaim it.
 
Angelo said:
:confused:
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You don't understand what I am trying to say Angelo. I am saying that if people were forced of land, it obviously belonged to "them", whoever "them" might have been. Those people (who according to statute must have been living there from or after 1919 or something are probably dead now or not into farming at all.

Why now put people who don't have a knack for or interest in farming back on the land simply because their ancestors owned it? It might serve the individual for the short to medium term, but has no value for the country. As big a fan of individualism I may be, I also believe there is something like the common good to be appreciated and cared for. How is the common good served if the repercussions of what is happening now, is going to be exactly that of Zimbabwe? Yes, the farmers are paid and yes they are allowed to voluntarily leave, but most of those farmers exit farming for good when they get the cash. That money isn't going into producing goods for the country's economy. It is going into buying nice houses in Randburg and sending kids to private schools (who end up leaving the country to go and use their skills overseas due to affirmative action).

To make things worse, land that has the sword of redistribution hanging over them (FOR YEARS AND YEARS) are not being developed at all. Farmers are not investing in new tech or farming implements. This is retarding the agricultural industry in SA beyond belief seeing as more than 60% of farming land apparently is under claim.

I would personally (as a person interested in the welfare of this country and ALL its people) like to know that folks who have claims on farms get the option to get a government compensation from the TAX coffers instead of being forced to take the land. Obviously you will take the land if it is your ONLY option, wouldn't you?

I have thought about this long and hard, chatted to people about this and read up a bit. The only logical conclusion I can come up with is that the end result of the current land reform effort will be the same as Zimbabwe.
 
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Maronite Pride said:
Hello, welcome to Zimbabwe
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Surely you meant Greater ZIMBABWE. That should make Uncle Bob feel really proud. Tony Blair has Great Britain and Bob has Greater Zimbabwe. How can I get GW Bush into this party? He is going to be felt left out.:D
 
TELESPHORE said:
Tony Blair has Great Britain and Bob has Greater Zimbabwe.
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Ah - but the Queen has the United Kingdom - next thing he will try and invade and declare himself King of the United Kingdom of Southern Africa :eek:
 
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kilps said:
Ah - but the Queen has the United Kingdom - next thing he will try and invade and declare himself King of the United Kingdom of Southern Africa :eek:
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Now that is a novel idea.:eek:
Wilber Smith can write a new book. Any takers for the title?
 
Small Holdings

Perhaps Government can try Small Holdings?
10 Hectares or less?
Produce things like herbs, small quantities of veg like spinach, cabbage etc.
Market Gardening is the term.
Not easy, as each area will be different.

I don't know. You cannot teach people to farm if they don't really want to farm or have the knack for it.
These people may simply want a hand-out of money, but cannot or don't have the means to tell Government this?
Maybe too embarrassed to say so?

But why push farming down on people if they are not cut out for it.
Farming is bloody hard work.
The Boers were the most successful farmers in Africa and that is a fact.
The current farmers are children of people that knew what it was to struggle and were forced to work their butts off to make the land produce for their families. They brought their skills, seed and tools and worked the land.
The blacks like Tshwane if he really existed were migratory people that knew how to farm with cattle. They knew how to live off the land and only produced enough to feed themselves.
Commercial Farming is a business where you need to produce food for cities, not just yourself.

If the farms are not producing, one can imagine that the price of food is going to go through the roof.
Everyone is going to suffer. The poor will not be able to afford food.
And the rich will simply not care.

Government needs to satisfy its voters, but on the other hand we need farms that can produce food.

I also hear many of the farmers want to sell, but Government is dragging it's feet. Some properties have been revalued several times and prices have been agreed to several times, but Government still doesn't pay? Why? :confused:
 
Maybe farming should be licensed - like fishing. You would have to prove you were capable of managing a farm greater than a certain size. The course could also include environment management so they don't throw poisonous chemicals into the rivers or use DDT on crops.

If we don't do something soon, this country will go back a few 100 years with small families just existing on a small farm to support their own need.

There is also a cultural idyll associated with having a patch of land to manage. Many of those folks in Guguletu and Kyaletcha have a family plot 'back home' in the Eastern Cape.

To me the people on the successful farms now are also South Africans, regardless of their skin colour, so if we all now equal then this hand-over seems pointless on that basis.
 
Skeptik said:
Maybe farming should be licensed - like fishing. You would have to prove you were capable of managing a farm greater than a certain size. The course could also include environment management so they don't throw poisonous chemicals into the rivers or use DDT on crops.

If we don't do something soon, this country will go back a few 100 years with small families just existing on a small farm to support their own need.

There is also a cultural idyll associated with having a patch of land to manage. Many of those folks in Guguletu and Kyaletcha have a family plot 'back home' in the Eastern Cape.

To me the people on the successful farms now are also South Africans, regardless of their skin colour, so if we all now equal then this hand-over seems pointless on that basis.
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You are on the money there.

Some of my staff have this back in the Eastern Cape, yet they are in the Cities working formal employment.

The one staff member's mother back in the Eastern Cape runs the farm and works very hard to produce food for the town nearby, but she tells me that many of the people that own land there do not work the land at all.
They would rather go look for work in the town and buy a cabbage than plant one them self.
She says they are very lazy.
 
BTTB said:
Farming is bloody hard work.
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It is bloody hard work. My parents have been farmers most of my late youth, until my farther died. I can remember how my mother pushed the seed-planting machine for km’s, because she was the lightest. The floral beds were 200 m long and 8 rows per bed. 5 Beds a day were sown. At that time my mother was already in her 50’s. Through grace she is still alive and counting 85 and still 52 Kg’s and still walking without a cane.

Myself used to spend 10 hours a day on the tractors, tilling and plough, during weekends and school holidays.
Even when I was already working and my father got sick, used to deliver the flowers to the market by leaving at 23:00 and back at the farm at 03:00 and then to my flat to sleep an hour before working from 08:00 to 17:00 and then back to the farm.

For some reason politicians have this fantasy about farms being the ultimate wealth. Money just streams in. It might be true if you are a feudal lord like a chieftain and the cattle of your kinsmen are actually yours and if you slaughter one you go and steal a replacement from the real farmers.

Yes I also support the idea for a license to farm. Only problem is – there is going to be so much corruption.
 
Skeptik said:
Maybe farming should be licensed - like fishing. You would have to prove you were capable of managing a farm greater than a certain size. The course could also include environment management so they don't throw poisonous chemicals into the rivers or use DDT on crops.

If we don't do something soon, this country will go back a few 100 years with small families just existing on a small farm to support their own need.

There is also a cultural idyll associated with having a patch of land to manage. Many of those folks in Guguletu and Kyaletcha have a family plot 'back home' in the Eastern Cape.

To me the people on the successful farms now are also South Africans, regardless of their skin colour, so if we all now equal then this hand-over seems pointless on that basis.
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VERY GOOD IDEA

But ur last point, these people I doubt really want to farm for the country but they just want a home and food and if like Antowan said we rather give them the money for the land
 
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