How do you save the bottom of the poor?

V

Vio

Expert Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2004
Messages
1,683
Reaction score
1
This has been something that has been bugging me,

South-Africa has like a large super poor group that live on the street (the beggars). This is a group of people that are uneducated (std 3 at best) and they have no real skills. How do these people "uplift" themselves in our current society? I mean in the old days they could goto a farm and work as one of the people that "harvest" the fruit but these days all these types of jobs are being replaced by machines. Business won't hire someone without a physical address either.

I have not heard of any goverment program that adresses the plight of these ppl either.

When I think about what causes people to turn to crime then this would be one of the reasons. I don't wanna make this topic a crime related thread but rather a "how do the super poor uplift themselves?".
 
First determine if they want to be saved, Do they want imposed help? A solution is a labour camp for food and shelter and at the same time progress will be moving forward as now everone just want to profit and it will not work for the poorest. Vicious cycle!
 
Pupa, labour camp but for what purpose? What are they gonna do? I mean the only sort of labour that "masses" can do is construction and these days you must be hecticly trained. In the old days road workers had to do allot of stuff to make a tar road. Today a machine lays the whole road in 1-3 days.
 
Today a machine lays the whole road in 1-3 days
Click to expand...
Surely not! There are a few million foundations to be dug - no diploma required. Millions of bricks to be made (no diploma) - laying waterpipes, no diploma - all require physical labour. Schools - active feeding programs - a citizens draft (voluntary) - for work throughout Africa - with associated schooling. Etc. The lotto to be far more visible - for Salvation Army, Red Cross - all the people already doing work in the community. A loosening of government funds to setup feeding programs -. There is lots that can be done - but not in a climate of corruption, graft and non-caring. Pretty much where we are today. A dream. I look to Venezuela and Brazil for some direction?! Cuba?! The above in line with "Caring Capitalism," ie, New Socialism.
 
Not to sound negative but I'm not in favour of a labour camp in return for food and shelter. It sounds like a type of slavery. Perhaps taking all the money from corruption and investing in more homeless shelters, employ social workers at these shelters to help educate these people as to what their rights are in terms of the constitution. Train them, have the government employ these very people in government projects instead of handing out government contracts to private contractors. There's so much that can be done, and I really do feel sorry for them especially during these winter months. The question is whether the people with any power to effect such change are willing to sacrifice their millions in cash, and if they are then are they willing to actually do some real work for a change?
 
tibby.dude said:
Labour camps ... with slogans like the ones below ???.

You are a right little facist.
Click to expand...

Highflyer_GP said:
Not to sound negative but I'm not in favour of a labour camp in return for food and shelter.
Click to expand...

That is half the problem isn't it. I see no problem with food and shelter in exchange for labour. That is essentially what I do every day. I work, I get money, I buy food and shelter and games and computers etc, but the bottom line is I work hard, I can have these things. These people want all I have for free. You ask any of them (and I know because I have done this) to come do some menial job like make coffee and clean your offices for a salary. They don't want to. So I have no pity for these people.

And before anyone makes me out as not knowing what I am talking about. My first business failed and I had over committed personal capital. I lost everything and I mean everything. No car, no house, no food, no job and black listed by the bank, vodacom, telkom, you name them. I was one step away from a hobo, no I actually was one step into being a hobo. I spent about a month sleeping on the beach in Cape Town.

Today I am what many people will term successfull. It's a mindset. I do lots of charity work through the Lions organization and the Salvation Army. I also give free computer support to various charities around Gauteng. I see people like this on a regular basis. They dont need a helping hand they need a firm kick up the back side.
 
"Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will eat for the rest of his life"
 
I think a better solution would be a system where these "low skilled" positions are forced to take on 5 "new" people from shelters per house being built and train these people. The same for other areas. Then the these companies pay them a minimum wage and submit reports on these people to avoid abuse of the system. The end result is the companies get 5 or so cheep labarours and the people get valueble skills and the employer might also like them so much that he employes them.
 
tibby.dude said:
"Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will eat for the rest of his life"
Click to expand...

It'll be a very short life if he fishes in the Jukskei! :)
 
Vio said:
This is a group of people that are uneducated (std 3 at best)
Click to expand...
Its a pity telkom has started retrenching people. I think std 2 would be the max requirement to work at thier call centre, std 3 is for managers positions.

Also dont forget that quiet a few of the beggers we see are "professional beggers" and most earn twice what most of us earn, why would they want to quit
 
Highflyer_GP said:
Not to sound negative but I'm not in favour of a labour camp in return for food and shelter. It sounds like a type of slavery. Perhaps taking all the money from corruption and investing in more homeless shelters, employ social workers at these shelters to help educate these people as to what their rights are in terms of the constitution. Train them, have the government employ these very people in government projects instead of handing out government contracts to private contractors. There's so much that can be done, and I really do feel sorry for them especially during these winter months. The question is whether the people with any power to effect such change are willing to sacrifice their millions in cash, and if they are then are they willing to actually do some real work for a change?
Click to expand...

Now that is just the fact. So the best alternative is like to be seen on TV regards to chad? Everybody sits and waits for the next handout? Change the name from labour-camp to anything else. Volutary GVT services. As long as there is decent food and shelter millions will be there to work for the days ration. See the guys sitting at robots waitng, hungry and thirsty for work, stop at the robot to pick up some for labour and see how they run to be first. Once when stopped the other came to talk, one just jumped in the back, no saying who got the job!
 
tibby.dude said:
Labour camps ... with slogans like the ones below ???.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbeit_macht_frei

You are a right little facist.
Click to expand...

Now whose the prick. now am a fascist. I have not seen your solution, in the meantime look at chad and the rest of Africa. Where is the world progress today, Korea, China, were they not the ones that forced their ppl in labour, what is happening is Russia, PPL that got at least now have nothing, they got anyway and were to lazy to earn, now they cannot cope. That what is happening in Africa. So call me a right little fascist! Its a better solution than what you offered
 
Vio said:
I don't wanna make this topic a crime related thread but rather a "how do the super poor uplift themselves?".
Click to expand...

Government will have to introduce a forced labour law, which will never happen. You are forgetting that some of these folks don't want to work. Those who do will welcome a system where they are picked up and put through a programme where they are taught new labour skills like weaving, knitting, sewing, gardening etc. This can be done in a relaxed military style base where these folks are fed, cleaned up and those with potential can be picked up and given formal schooling if they have the ability. The peeps without the ability or who are too old will simply be given an opportunity to work for the country in perhaps low cost housing developments etc. They should get proper medical care in the facility and if unable to prove their ability to care for themselves properly be restricted from leaving the facility until due evidence is shown.

Kids who beg should immediately be removed from their parents without trial and only through a court procedure (for which a dedicated court system can be created) will parent be allowed access to their children again. Parents must prove the kids ran away without their knowledge etc and that they didn't put the kid in the begging seats. If they did, they are not fit to care and the kid will be taken away with limited visitation rights afforded the parents.

The kid will then be placed in what should be a proper military school over which NGOs should preside. These schools must be places that instill a sense of worth in these kids and give them proper schooling in a strict environment. It is far too easy for a troubled mind to buck the system in a routine where there isn't effective and perhaps overly stringent rules and regulations. At the end of a child's scholastic term he has the option to leave the facility for higher education (if fit) with government funding or training in an appropriate direction depending on the child's disposition.

There should be no room for begging. If you beg, you are clearly in a pickle and will get shipped off to a camp where your life can be turned around for you through the help of skilled people in the social services department. I am now talking about psychologists, educators etc.

Note that in a country where the poor have the strongest vote, this will never ever happen! :)
 
Last edited:
Everyday when i drive to work I see a whole family on the street begging/hiking father mother and 2 kids (kids probably age 5 and 8) and they are all white its a sad thing to see but I will never give a hitchiker a lift i love my car too much :p And I actually wish the kids get taken away but then again how sad will that be for the parents if their kids are taken away from them.
 
IMHO, these kids should be taken away. The problem is where do the kids go? Foster care children are often abused, neglected and terribly traumatised, and with no real bright future, they often develop into problem children and eventually may lead a criminal adult life. The begging issue will become greater as unemployment continues to go unhindered, and more and more kids will land up on government and other welfare systems.
 
antowan said:
Government will have to introduce a forced labour law, which will never happen. You are forgetting that some of these folks don't want to work. Those who do will welcome a system where they are picked up and put through a programme where they are taught new labour skills like weaving, knitting, sewing, gardening etc. This can be done in a relaxed military style base where these folks are fed, cleaned up and those with potential can be picked up and given formal schooling if they have the ability. The peeps without the ability or who are too old will simply be given an opportunity to work for the country in perhaps low cost housing developments etc. They should get proper medical care in the facility and if unable to prove their ability to care for themselves properly be restricted from leaving the facility until due evidence is shown.

Kids who beg should immediately be removed from their parents without trial and only through a court procedure (for which a dedicated court system can be created) will parent be allowed access to their children again. Parents must prove the kids ran away without their knowledge etc and that they didn't put the kid in the begging seats. If they did, they are not fit to care and the kid will be taken away with limited visitation rights afforded the parents.

The kid will then be placed in what should be a proper military school over which NGOs should preside. These schools must be places that instill a sense of worth in these kids and give them proper schooling in a strict environment. It is far too easy for a troubled mind to buck the system in a routine where there isn't effective and perhaps overly stringent rules and regulations. At the end of a child's scholastic term he has the option to leave the facility for higher education (if fit) with government funding or training in an appropriate direction depending on the child's disposition.

There should be no room for begging. If you beg, you are clearly in a pickle and will get shipped off to a camp where your life can be turned around for you through the help of skilled people in the social services department. I am now talking about psychologists, educators etc.

Note that in a country where the poor have the strongest vote, this will never ever happen! :)
Click to expand...

Labour camps indeed, the next thing you will be propagating is “re education camps” (like in china) were the gvt can send those that don’t abide by their rules, get indoctrinated or re educated. I get so sick of people forever telling everybody ells what how and when to do whatever. Why don’t you do something? This winter I have given as I always do, food/blankets/clothing and money, to my chosen charities, GO AND DO THE SAME.
 
ajak said:
Labour camps indeed, the next thing you will be propagating is “re education camps” (like in china) were the gvt can send those that don’t abide by their rules, get indoctrinated or re educated. I get so sick of people forever telling everybody ells what how and when to do whatever. Why don’t you do something? This winter I have given as I always do, food/blankets/clothing and money, to my chosen charities, GO AND DO THE SAME.
Click to expand...

I think he is just trying to permanently trying to solve the problem, so that it doesn't repeat annually, do you have a better idea?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X