Correct term: "Marikana/Lonmin massacre'' or ''Marikana/Lonmin shooting"?

thestaggy

thestaggy

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I'm a contributor to Wikipedia and there is intense debate amongst contributors as to what the correct description of the event is.

I'm of the opinion that it is a "shooting" as "massacre" implies the indiscriminate killing of innocent and defenceless people. By their prior actions the miners cannot really be seen as innocent - being responsible for 4 brutal murders and the torching of nearly 10 vehicles - and they most certainly were not defenceless, as evidenced by the multitude of spears, pangas and fighting sticks in their possession. Granted those vs a gun are a bit of a miss-match, but if the police never fired at them they'd have closed in enough to use them.

So, what is the consensus opinion of MyBB?
 
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Massacre is defined as

"Kill a large number of people indiscriminately."

There were probably a few people in that crowd that were in the wrong place at the wrong time but a lot of them knew what was going on and what they were doing so I would agree on it not being called a massacre. What's strange though is Columbine & Aurora are considered shootings when they are really better examples of indiscriminate killing.
 
In rhythm with the Movie title "The Bourne Legacy" ...

The Lonmin Idiocy ... - you don't run towards policemen, who are armed, with pangas and machetes in a threatening manner..
 
Police Shooting would be more appropriate although there are many that will disagree.
It never happened on Lonmins property at all and was a result of Police action, not Lonmin themselves.

Those that do disagree just need to be placed in the same position to see how they would have reacted.

The real tragedy is the fact that in today's time, it is tolerated that groups of people can muster armed to the teeth with deadly weapons. Illegal gatherings like this inevitably have massive potential to turn violent to varying degrees.
We even see this at political party rallies under the guise of traditional weapons.

How is it that people are allowed to protest in this fashion in this day and age. Its a recipe for disaster.
This was a unionized (illegal) gathering, the Unions need to stand up and take responsibility for allowing this to happen.
 
I would go with Marikana riots tbh..

The miners that were shot were rioting in my opinion.
 
Definitely a riot, the fact that teargas and rubber bullets were used is indication of this as the Police were trying to quell the assembly of people.

In regards to the actual shooting. It happened all too fast to position blame on the Police, however from the one video I watched it is clear that some of the Police Officers were shooting indiscriminately into the crowd, Rambo-style if you could call it that. An R4 carries 30 to 35 rounds and even on semi-automatic a lot of lead can be expelled from those barrels in a very short space of time. One or two well placed shots could have done the job. I think the Policeman panicked, fearful for their lives, no angry mob is worth your own life so to speak? Secondly there was no proper "line" of Policeman, some were shooting from behind the other, they could have shot each other too.

What I could definitely hear above the noise was several commands to cease fire, which is an indication that maybe the Police fired instinctively and no orders were given to fire in the first place?

What about a volley of warning shots, with a marksman in position to take out the odd person carrying a firearm. Anyway the deed has been done, I hope the Unions and Police learn from this experience.

Suffice to say, in my wife's long term pension portfolio she has Lonmin Shares which are reflecting a big paper loss. :cry:
Everyone is losing here...
 
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I thing the term"The culling of animals" would be appropriate.in not sure of the spelling though.Being a boer and all.
 
shooting/riots/unrest

That would be the options imo. The miners were not defenseless, innocent or peaceful.
 
I agree that a safe compromise would be to use "Lonmin/Marikana riot". I also agree that this was a "police shooting" and not massacre. But as sure as the sun shines there will be political parties out there trying their very best to spin this as some great struggle against some unknown force (apartheid?) to make it all racial.
 
BTTB said:
Definitely a riot, the fact that teargas and rubber bullets were used is indication of this as the Police were trying to quell the assembly of people.

In regards to the actual shooting. It happened all too fast to position blame on the Police, however from the one video I watched it is clear that some of the Police Officers were shooting indiscriminately into the crowd, Rambo-style if you could call it that. An R4 carries 30 to 35 rounds and even on semi-automatic a lot of lead can be expelled from those barrels in a very short space of time. One or two well placed shots could have done the job. I think the Policeman panicked, fearful for their lives, no angry mob is worth your own life so to speak? Secondly there was no proper "line" of Policeman, some were shooting from behind the other, they could have shot each other too.

What I could definitely hear above the noise was several commands to cease fire, which is an indication that maybe the Police fired instinctively and no orders were given to fire in the first place?

What about a volley of warning shots, with a marksman in position to take out the odd person carrying a firearm. Anyway the deed has been done, I hope the Unions and Police learn from this experience.

Suffice to say, in my wife's long term pension portfolio she has Lonmin Shares which are reflecting a big paper loss. :cry:
Everyone is losing here...
Click to expand...

I picked up on that and that was scary. In the video there's the one cop who was way out in front when the others started shooting, very dangerous situation.

From the perspective of SAPS I think they had no option faced with the mob and knowing what they had done/were capable of, but I can see why there are questions about the training/discipline/control. I have read that at the point of the charge SAPS claim that the mob had flanked them while they were attempting to set-up a barricade and rushed into an unprotected area, so it could be a case of rushed efforts by the police to get into position and hence the perception that they were disorganised. The lack of a line could be the police still arriving at the position.

I think in a controlled situation a few aimed shots into the legs would have helped or as you said, the dropping of any individual carrying a gun. At that point they had already been shot with rubber bullets and that did not help, so live ammo was naturally the next progression.

And true, too late to say this and that as it has happened. I hope the Unions do not come out of this unscathed though. Their behaviour for over a decade now has been appalling during times of protest. They've helped nurture this idea that when on strike you can f@$k schit up without any sort of punishment.
 
"Shooting" implies that it was a criminal act. Like the Columbine shooting etc

This was a massacre, all it means is that a lot of people were killed. It implies inilation of one group by another.
 
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