ISDN line rental double charging?

Please help me out here. I am continuing to look over this friend's Telkom bill, and there are more unusual charges going on here I don't know if they are legit.

On the Telkom bill it says the following:

Rental:
031 XXX XX67 Your lines 21 May-20 June R107,54 (ex Vat)
031 XXX XX73 ISDN BRA 21 May-20 June R214,91 (ex Vat)

Now help me out here. This is the Telkom bill for a home office, i.e. they pay business rates for line rental etc (and receive an entirely separate bill for their home line).

Now, I thought that that R214,91 charge for ISDN included the line rental charge for a normal telephone. Why are they paying for a business phone line seperately? And why is this business phone line assigned a different telephone number from the ISDN BRA line? When you have ISDN, you don't get two telephone numbers, right?

I think what has happened here is that they have the ISDN line, and Telkom told them they need to have a seperate business telephone line as well.

Please tell me if I am wrong!!

Debbie I remember when we got ISDN installed a long time ago the techie told us we will have 2 telephone numbers now.

Thanks ds, do you know if you were charged a seperate fee for both lines, as seems to be the case here?

An ISDN line does not also require a standard analogue line rental. With the ISDN BRA 2A service you effectively also have two simultaneous voice lines. Unless you also subscribe to the MSN service (about R25/month for an additional four numbers) both voice lines use the same telephone number.

Debbie2 said:

Thanks ds, do you know if you were charged a seperate fee for both lines, as seems to be the case here?

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No - you should not be charged a seperate fee for the ability two run two voice calls at once.

ic said:

The billing entries you've posted, are for an ordinary [business] analogue line [copper] rental, as well as a separate ISDN2a [business I assume] line [also copper] rental, are you sure they don't have 2 separate lines one analogue and another ISDN2a?

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The only reason they would have 2 seperate lines (i.e. an ISDN line and an additional normal telephone line) is if Telkom told them that they needed a normal phone line in addition to the ISDN line in order to make normal phone calls.

This whole bill is bloody ridiculous. They are paying around R300 a month for these line rentals, and altogether all the phone calls and internet calls come to R100!

And then, to add to this, three steps away they are paying another R1k a month for their home IDSN line and usage! Not to mention their MWeb isp charges! When I get back to Durban I'm gonna have to hit them all very hard for this! Even harder considering the household head is a mathematics professor at a university!

Debbie, do you ask everyone you know to give you their telephone bills?

mooK said:

Debbie, do you ask everyone you know to give you their telephone bills?

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No mooK, this is like my second family who I've known for 20 years.

As far as I remember from having ISDN back in 2002, was that we were charged for ISDN 2A, which for the two ISDN lines, cost the same as three standard lines. Since the ISDN lines were used to make voice calls, there was no extra cost for a standard telephone line.

Yeah ic I am looking into their best options, which is why they have given me their phone bills. Thanks for reminding me about the GPRS internet option.

AFAIK. ISDN2A allows you to make calls one one line if you are connected to the net using only on ISDN port i.e.64K. If both line are bindled for 128k then your phone is technically engaged. You do have an option to request up to five lines (numbers) for additional costs above the ISDN2a package for example calls, faxing etc. Perhaps this is the setup they originally went for ??

You say it's a business, so I'm going to assume that they have a fax line. Or at least at some stage had a fax line. Could that not possibly be the situation, that they had a fax line, and maybe decided to drop it, without notifying Telkom. Telkom would just continue to bill them for the line. Because that bill states that there are definitely 2 separate lines, the ISDN line, and a standard copper line.

Maybe they had a standard copper line, when they applied for ISDN, and didn't cancel the original copper line. Telkom won't take anything away unless you provide it in writing that you don't want it anymore, and they would prefer a reason to be supplied. Telkom will obviously try to sucker people into this sort of thing. They upgrade there line, but Telkom certainly won't tell you that you can actually discontinue the previous service. First thing is to check that the line physically exists in the house. If it doesn't, get hold of Telkom to verify it's existance. If there is no line, you should be able to claim back some of those line rentals. We had a similar problem, where they were billing us for two analogue lines at home, but it turns out that they'd removed to old one, and forgot to remove it from the system. They paid us back 18 months worth of rental. It took forever for my parents to realise they were getting overbilled!

Very easy - ask them if they use the 031 XXX XX67 number. Or even better, call the number and see if it rings. If it is not in use cancel the 031 XXX XX67 line.

I think they have ISDN (2 digital ports) and not ISDN2a (2 digital, 2 analog ports), hence the seperate anolog line for the fax machine. If this is the case let them convert to ISDN2a, and get two MSN numbers, one for the telephone and one for the fax machine.

The monthly rental cost will then be ISDN2a = R215 and MSN = R21 for a total of R236.

Differences Between ISDN2 and ISDN2a. Multi Subscriber Number.

This is slighty off-topic but I think, after reading this thread, that there needs to be some clarification of the differences between ISDN2 and ISDN2a and what Multi Subscriber Number is.

The only differences between the two is the installation/rental costs and the hardware. The line itself, for both ISDN 2/2a, is exactly the same i.e. Basic Rate Access (BRA), which, put simply, is one digital telecommunications line with 2 channels, each with a bandwidth of 64kbps.

If you decide to install an ISDN2 line, Telkom will install the BRA line and connect it to a Network Terminator (NT) with 4 digital ports on your premises. If you decide to install an ISDN2a line, Telkom will install exactly the same BRA line but will connect it to an NT with 2 digital and 2 analogue ports on your premises. The only hardware difference is the NT. So, if you have an ISDN2 line, you can connect an ISDN2a NT to it, or if you have an ISDN2a line, you can connect an ISDN2 NT to it. It doesn't matter, it's the same line.

The installation costs for ISDN2 are currently R443.35 for a new line and R333.17 for a conversion of an existing line. ISDN2a installation costs are currently R605.10 for a new line and R479.94 for a conversion of an existing line. Monthly residential rental for ISDN2 is R195.90 and for ISDN2a R220.50.
http://www.telkom.co.za/athome/products/isdn/home_isdn_costs.html
The price difference for the installation of ISDN2 and ISDN2a can be justified as the ISDN2a NT is more expensive because of its analogue ports which have to convert outgoing voice from analogue to digital in the NT before sending it through the BRA line to the exchange and the other way around for incoming voice. However, the price difference for the monthly rental cannot. Why charge a different price if the line for ISDN2 and ISDN2a is exactly the same?

On to Multi Subscriber Number (MSN). This service allows you to have up to four extra numbers assigned to your ISDN BRA line in addition to your main number for a total of five numbers. You can assign each analogue port of your ISDN2a NT with a unique MSN so when that unique number is dialled, only the device connected to that port will ring. If an ISDN device, such as a Terminal Adaptor (TA), is connected to a digital port, the device itself must be assigned an MSN and not the port. The MSN specification allows up to ten numbers to be assigned to an ISDN BRA line but Telkom only allows five. The monthly rental for MSN, business and residential, is R24.85, regardless of how many MSNs you choose. There is no installation fee.

If you have an ISDN2 NT and want to connect analogue telecommunications devices to it you can get an ISDN2a NT. Telkom does not sell these NTs seperately but if you know someone who has disconnected or converted their ISDN2a line, they may still have their NTs. If you would like more information on getting a hold of these NTs, please PM me. There are two other options. Get a TA with analogue ports such as this Duxbury USB TA or get an ISDN BRA PABX such as the tiptel 410/810 S clip. These two options (which can also be used with an ISDN2a NT) allow you to increase the number of analogue ports (up to eight in case of the tiptel 810 S clip) thereby making use of all five MSNs by assigning a unique MSN to each port.

I hope after reading this that ISDN2, ISDN2a and MSN make a little more sense.

Thank you SO much AshCokeandDash, that is an extremely helpful post. Also others in this thread, what's been said here has helped me a lot.

Convert ISDN2a Business Line to ISDN2 Residential Line. Disconnect Analogue Lines.

Back on-topic.

After reading the initial post I feel it necessary to share my experiences with ISDN2 for a home-based business.

We initially had one analogue line which was used for both business and personal purposes. One line, however, was not enough, and so we decided to convert the line to ISDN2 with four MSNs and a PABX so we could have seperate lines for business, fax and home. All we did was convert the line from analogue to ISDN2 and did not convert the account from residential to business. We therefore were able to get residential rates as well as InfinitCall and later Closer Option 3 with the Internet Add-On which I think is the most affordable calling plan for a home-based business. Also, because we installed ISDN2, we were charged a lower conversion fee and are charged a lower monthly rental. I also wanted specific MSNs, not randomly assigned ones, so I managed to get a hold of someone who worked in the ISDN department who was in charge of assigning MSNs and eventually got the MSNs I wanted.

I think the Telkom customer consultant your friend spoke to when applying for the new line really didn't know exactly what was going on and eventually caused confusion which lead to unnecessary lines being installed and thereby causing your friend to pay more then he/she should have.

Here's what I think should be done. Convert the Business ISDN2a Line to a Residential ISDN2 Line. Keep the ISDN2a NT. Disconnect the business analogue line as well as the residential analogue line. Transfer the telephone numbers on the disconnected analogue lines to the ISDN2 line as MSNs (If you like, I can give you the telephone number of the person in charge of assigning MSNs on ISDN, just PM me). If there are not enough analogue ports, get a TA with analogue ports or an ISDN BRA PABX. If a large number of calls are made to other landlines (more than R197.87 per month), look into applying for Closer Option 3 on ISDN2 which is R197.87 per month. Your friend should start seeing an immediate reduction in his/her Telkom invoices if the above is implemented.

Hope this helps.

mikef said:

An ISDN line does not also require a standard analogue line rental. With the ISDN BRA 2A service you effectively also have two simultaneous voice lines. Unless you also subscribe to the MSN service (about R25/month for an additional four numbers) both voice lines use the same telephone number.

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I do agree as I'm charged for the same thing on ISDN2a...Don't know about the R25 for additional numbers...

PS: Remember that if you have one line your speed is only 64kbps and cannot recieve or make calls while on the net...
If you have 2 lines then you can have 128kbps...You cannot make calls using 128kbps on the net, as you are using two lines...... You can make and recieve calls using one line and one the net i.e. your speed will be 64kbps....