U.S. Computer Programmers Losing Ground

U.S. Computer Programmers Losing Ground
Voice of America News (07/27/06) Hoke, Zlatica

From 1977 to 1989, U.S. collegiate teams dominated the annual ACM programming competition, and U.S. students were among the top finishers through the late 1990s. Since then, however, they have been over taken by Asian and East European students. Only one U.S. team finished in the top 12 in this year's competition; last year there were none. To some, this trend is emblematic of a broader and more serious shortage of computer scientists looming in the future. "If you look at the rate of production of individuals either with bachelors' degrees or advanced degrees in those disciplines in the United States, it's about half the rate of production of those of let's say India and China, which are the two major producers," said Mel Schiavelli, president of Harrisburg University of Science and Technology. "Said another way," he continues, "in the United States, less than a third of students who go to college decide to study a science or technology or engineering discipline. Whereas when you get to China, it's closer to 70 percent." Schiavelli also believes that science education in general has declined in the United States, noting the significant number of math teachers who are not certified in the field. As a result, students are often unprepared for the difficulty of university-level computer science courses, and many professors have made their courses easier to keep students from switching majors. "University programs are faced with a challenge of: 'If we want to keep our jobs, we have to keep our students.' So then they start dumbing down their programs to keep more of their students when their is a sign they are going to leave," said Doug White, a computer science professor at Roger Williams University. Meanwhile, the flourishing technology industries in China and India have lead millions of students to pursue computer science programs. Concerns about outsourcing threaten to further erode the computing workforce in the United States, as many students have turned away from computer science out of the fear that there will be no jobs waiting for them when they graduate.

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We got a similar problem in SA tho its partially caused by high telecom costs.

University of Waterloo:

2006 - bronze
2005 - gold
2003 - gold
2002 - gold
2001 - silver
2000 - gold


Ah yes... My school's CS program is probably one of the top three in the world. (I'm not in CS though.)

I'm highly sceptical about this type of 'report'. We used to hear this in Britain a lot - especially when companies were falling over themselves to hire Indians. They kept saying they couldn't fill posts because there was a shortage. It turned out there wasn't a great shortage. The greedy employers simply wanted to pay less and the Indians were VERY obliging in this respect. They also were employed on tenuous contracts and could be sent back with little or no notice. Many Indians I worked with were very pleasant, but only a very small number had the right skills - most embellishing their CVs to the point of being total fiction. Communication was also extremely difficult. Imagine trying to discuss database design with someone with a very heavy Mumbai accent Also, many Indian universities are way below par when it comes to awarding degrees.

" Doug White, who has helped develop programming tests for international companies hiring computer specialists, says corporations are increasingly interested in programmers from Asia because they are not only more skilled, but also work for less than American programmers."

The above exerpt from the article underlines my point.

In my view the Eastern Europeans were most skilled, but had greater difficulty in getting visas. I'd rather hire a Russian, Ukrainian or Slovak than any Indian/Asian.

Most programming, like manufacturing, is now easy to do and can be done by one's grandmother. Simple, easy tasks will get moved to third-world countries where it can be done for much lower cost. There is no difference between programmers and the old man that puts the wheels on the car on the assembly line and the old lady that cuts material in shape to make jeans.

In a few years most non-specialized programming will be in third-world countries. Specialized manufacturing and specialized programming will remain in countries such as the United States.

Jerrek said:

Most programming, like manufacturing, is now easy to do and can be done by one's grandmother.

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I'd like to meet your grandmother. (How old are you?)

Jerrek said:

There is no difference between programmers and the old man that puts the wheels on the car on the assembly line and the old lady that cuts material in shape to make jeans.

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Clearly you've never programmed anything more complex than your digital watch.

Its not that programmers are getting "Dumber" .. its just harder to "impress" the judges. When was the last time a Cell Phone impressed you ? ... but 10 years ago it was WOW!!!!!!

Lots of third world students use these programming competitions as a way to get noticed and hired by overseas companies. They train non-stop for these things. I know of at least two people from South Africa who have been recruited to top firms in the States after doing well in the International Informatics Olympiad.

I have to agree that your generic programmer is increasingly becoming the drone of the IT workforce. These days you need to be specialised (eg. SAP, Oracle etc) or have a good few years of experience to earn well and partipate in projects at a higher level. When resourcing for a project, programmers are usually the easiest to find - its the team leaders and analysts that are more important since they are usually the ones telling the programmers what to do

It's funny how people love defending the british with such passion. Hmm we not good enough for the job so lets blame the employers for employing cheap labour. Maybe if people could get their heads out their arses & actually negotiate a good salary (instead of demanding one) then they might actually be hired. Ever negotiated a price on a car? Same principle.