Accused of domain hijacking

On 13 December 2012, I bought a NEW DOMAIN at Axxess. I typed in the domain name and it said that it was available. All goes well, but 6 weeks ago I get a call from Axxess saying that the domain "transfer" was done incorrectly and that the domain actually belongs to someone else and that I should call this number. So I called that number and told them what Axxess told me and they told me that "nothing is wrong with the domain, there have been no queries".

So I thought "well that's it, I guess". I guessed wrong. I just got an email from a lawyer representing the company that supposedly owns MY domain. He said that he had sent me a letter in the post regarding the domain (which I never received btw) and since I have not responded to it that they will proceed with criminal charges since I hijacked their domain. He said that if I want to sort this out without lawyers, that I should call him.

So I called him and spoke for about 15 mins, explaining to him that I did not select "TRANSFER DOMAIN", instead "NEW DOMAIN" which he then told me was impossible. But I KNOW FOR A FACT that I did not choose transfer domain. And even if I did, how could Axxess just transfer a domain without asking me who I am and if I am the real owner etc.

So I tell him that, and he tells me that by accepting Axxess' terms of conditions, I agreed that I was the owner of the domain and that it may be transferred. So he comes with stories that if I just hand over the domain that they will buy me a new domain and pay for 2 years of my hosting. So I tell him that I spent 6 months on SEO on the site and that I don't want to lose it. He then later mentions "a couple of grand" as compensation for the time that I spent in SEO.

I then told him to email me with the transfer offer and I will let him know if I do accept it and also email me the lawyers letter that was supposedly posted to me. So he offers me R2500 and 1 year of hosting, which is pathetic. The domain is legally under my name, and I suspect that they are just trying to scare me into selling it to them (the lawyer's letter says NOTHING about the terms and conditions that he was talking about over the phone). So I tell him that and tell him that if he wants to buy my domain he should come with serious offers.

He then replies saying that he will tell his client that I am not willing to hand over the domain and that they should proceed with civil/criminal charges. So I respond telling him to go ahead, since I have done nothing wrong.

So what do you guys think? I think I'll email him back in the morning and let him know the amount which I am willing to settle for. I don't really want to sell my domain, but I wouldn't mind if I got the amount that it is worth to me.

If you would like the domain name to check out the details, send me a PM.

Thanks
CptNukeEm

Was waiting for this. Nice domain name you scored there by the way. I'd hang on to that like mad if I were you. Just a shame you are using it for a blog.

Yes, from the looks of it you did nothing wrong. As long as you ordered it as a 'new domain' and not a transfer. But with the new EPP system there are no public trace records available like with the old legacy co.za system so it would be impossible for me to comment with regards to what exactly went down in this exact instance.

I would not suggest you email/contact them directly anymore ... never mind telling them you are willing to settle for X amount (could be construed in the wrong way). Rather just refer them to the ISP in question as they should be the ones handling it, not you. They can then in turn contact you.

On 13 December 2012, I bought a NEW DOMAIN at Axxess. I typed in the domain name and it said that it was available. All goes well, but 6 weeks ago I get a call from Axxess saying that the domain "transfer" was done incorrectly and that the domain actually belongs to someone else and that I should call this number.

Click to expand...

1) Keep everything right here in this thread. There are many clued up people here & keeping the conversation in the open will help keep everyone honest.
2) I'd contact Axxess right now & ask them to intervene. Confirm that you legally own the domain etc.
3) The lawyer, in very personal opinion sounds like he is full of it. Why the hell is he referring to the Axxess T&C? The Axxess T&C are between you & Axxess...nobody else has anything to do with that. Not the lawyer. Not *his* client.
4) Personally I wouldn't settle. Clearly they are full of it. Clearly they don't have a foot to stand on. Clearly this domain is worth the cost of a lawyer +2.5k. You hold all the aces...if you've got the risk tolerance then I'd suggest letting them sweat it until you figure out what to do.

Now I'm not a lawyer & probably not qualified to comment on this, but in my opinion the best approach would be

Hi guys,

Some stuff doesn't add up here....

1) Are you talking about your homepage? Deeds.co.za ?

2) This is NOT A NEW DOMAIN:
3e. creationdate : 2008/03/26 10:49:17

3) https://www.axxess.co.za/hosting
If you select transfer with hosting. You can put ANY domain in there. Essentially you think the domain is available, meanwhile it isn't.

So there is something fishy with your story. Its obviously not a new domain, and you must have transferred it. Even if you didn't realise you did this, you did.

Ap0c said:

Hi guys,

Some stuff doesn't add up here....

1) Are you talking about your homepage? Deeds.co.za ?

2) This is NOT A NEW DOMAIN:
3e. creationdate : 2008/03/26 10:49:17

3) https://www.axxess.co.za/hosting
If you select transfer with hosting. You can put ANY domain in there. Essentially you think the domain is available, meanwhile it isn't.

So there is something fishy with your story. Its obviously not a new domain, and you must have transferred it. Even if you didn't realise you did this, you did.

Click to expand...

hmmmm.....but you shouldn't just be able to transfer willy nilly. if so, I'm gonna get me the ANC Domain.

also, it's funny the lawyer starts throwing money out there in what appears to be a criminal case. why would he do that?

I stand corrected, you can transfer without any checks or anything in place! this is really a *****ty setup from Axxess.

crackersa said:

hmmmm.....but you shouldn't just be able to transfer willy nilly. if so, I'm gonna get me the ANC Domain.

also, it's funny the lawyer starts throwing money out there in what appears to be a criminal case. why would he do that?

Click to expand...

Because the cost to have a dispute adjudicated is R10,000 and up?

Axxess fked up ?

I'm pretty sure things will get messy, however the fact remains. Domain was transferred, and is not a new registration.

CptNukeEm - I think its an honest mistake, and as you can see - the domain was registered 4 years ago....

what is the domain name? check with the registrar who it was/is registered to...

Ap0c said:

I'm pretty sure things will get messy, however the fact remains. Domain was transferred, and is not a new registration.

CptNukeEm - I think its an honest mistake, and as you can see - the domain was registered 4 years ago....

Click to expand...

Yup. And it's been in use [not all the time though, it would seem]. Although I see it was used for that annoying spam stuff.

Yeah axxess screwed up:

Keegan said:

what is the domain name? check with the registrar who it was/is registered to...

Click to expand...

There is no "was". It wasn't logged on the page.

froot said:

There is no "was". It wasn't logged on the page.

Click to expand...

The .co.za domains have moved to a new registration process.

You can still see:
3e. creationdate : 2008/03/26 10:49:17

So no doubt it was transferred.

Ap0c said:

The .co.za domains have moved to a new registration process.

You can still see:
3e. creationdate : 2008/03/26 10:49:17

So no doubt it was transferred.

Click to expand...

Yup. Yeah I've seen how annoying it has become to trace the previous transactions.

Ap0c said:

I'm pretty sure things will get messy, however the fact remains. Domain was transferred, and is not a new registration.

CptNukeEm - I think its an honest mistake, and as you can see - the domain was registered 4 years ago....

Click to expand...

So how do you suppose that I go about this matter then?

CptNukeEm said:

So how do you suppose that I go about this matter then?

Click to expand...

I would let him pay you out for your SEO expenses and transfer the domain to him. Its the right thing to do. Honest mistake - on Axxess's part.

I don't think the other lawyer can file criminal charges -lets ask the new IT lawyers Michalsons Attorneyswe have on the forum about this:

The South African Institute of Intellectual Property Law (SAIIPL) is accredited as a dispute resolution provider in terms of the .za Alternate Dispute Resolution Regulations.
Previously, the only possible action which could be taken against the unauthorised registration of a co.za domain name was to institute court proceedings for trade mark infringement in South Africa. However, a new procedure, which is very similar to the procedure followed by WIPO in its administration of ICANN’s Uniform Dispute Resolution Policy, was introduced in South Africa on 1 April 2007 and SAIIPL has been accredited as a dispute resolution service provider by the Department of Communications.
The new procedure entitles any party to lodge a complaint against a co.za domain if the domain name "takes unfair advantage of the rights" of that party or "is contrary to law or likely to give offence to any class of persons". Complaints can be filed against domain names which incorporate registered trade marks or even trade marks which are not registered but which are well known. Complaints can also be filed against domain names which amount to hate speech or racism or any other such names which are contrary to public policy.
The new procedure provides a cost efficient and expeditious resolution of domain name disputes. Disputes filed with SAIIPL are normally concluded within two to three months, using on-line procedures, whereas court litigation would take significantly longer. Fees are also much lower than normal litigation.
SAIIPL was established in 1954 and represents over 140 patent attorneys, patent agents, trade mark practitioners and academics in South Africa who specialise in the field of Intellectual Property Law. SAIIPL has a large panel of independent and experienced adjudicators, taken from the most experienced practising attorneys, advocates and academics in the field, to determine disputes lodged with it.
The development is to be welcomed and goes a long way to ensuring that South Africa is keeping pace with international developments.

Click to expand...

But then I had a look at their fee schedule and I think its absolutely ridiculous.

(Regulation 34)

34. (1) A complainant must pay a fixed fee in the sum of R10,000-00 to the provider for one adjudicator as contemplated in regulation 20(3) or a fixed fee in the sum of R24,000-00 for three adjudicators to decide the dispute, if the complainant elects to have the dispute decided by three adjudicators.
(2) If a registrant elects in terms of regulation 18(2)(d) to have the dispute decided by three adjudicators, rather than a single adjudicator elected by the complainant, the registrant and the complainant must pay the provider a fixed fee in the sum of R12,000-00 each.
(3) The appeal fee for an appeal under regulation 32 is a fixed fee in the sum of R24,000-00.

(4) A complainant or registrant may approach the Authority, in writing, for financial assistance to lodge a dispute or defend a dispute, which assistance may be considered at the discretion of the Authority taking into account the financial means of the complainant or registrant. (see Financial Assistance)
(5) Upon receipt of the fees required in terms this regulation, the provider must immediately pay 10% of the fees to the Authority, which fees the Authority must use exclusively to fund other complainants and registrants seeking financial assistance.
The SAIIPL's Bank Account is:

South African Institute of Intellectual Property Law
Standard Bank
Church Square
Cheque Account
Acc No. 010649514

Click to expand...

CptNukeEm said:

So how do you suppose that I go about this matter then?

Click to expand...

If they offering to help you out with some stuff, then take it and move on. No point creating a giant mess of the situation.

Its really your call...

Have they removed the requirement that the current registered e-mail addresses get a message requesting approval of a transfer?