OH YEAH.. Cop up for theft, sale of police weapons

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ajak

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Ntwaagae Seleka

A policeman has been arrested and charged with stealing firearms from a the Vaal Rand police weapons safe and selling them.

One of the stolen firearms has been identified as having been used in a murder incident in Sebokeng two months ago.

Police could not say yesterday who the victim of the shooting was, but said the gun had been positively linked to the murder.

Constable Thabiso Ntsoha, 29, appeared in the Vereeniging magistrates’ court yesterday along with two co-accused, Joseph Mokubu, 35, and Lebohang Nakedi, 32. The trial was postponed to October 25. after having been arrested by Vaal Rand police.

Ntsoha, who was stationed at the the headquarters of the Vaal Rand police station, is suspected of being linked to the disappearance of about 50 firearms from the police station’s safe.

Ntosha appeared with two other men, Joseph Mokubu, 35, and Lebohang Nakedi, 32, and magistrate Bruno van Eeden postponed the case to October 25.

Police said Ntsoha, who has an LLB degree, was employed in the legal services department of the the headquarters of the Vaal Rand police.

Police said one of the stolen firearms had been identified as having been used in a murder in Sebokeng two months ago.

Police could not say yesterday who the victim of the shooting was, but said the gun had been positively linked to the murder. Inspector Trudie Wilken said Ntsoha had been arrested after a man held in connection with the Sebokeng murder told the police that he had bought a firearm from Ntsoha.

Wilken said that follow-up investigations had then revealed that 50 different types of the weapons had been stolen from the safe, including 9mm pistols, .38 special handguns, other handguns and assault rifles.

“Only a few of the firearms stolen have been recovered. Investigations will lead to more arrests.”Ntsoha is facing departmental charges and a criminal case.

Ntsoha, Mokubu and Nakedi are expected to appear in court again on October 25.

http://www.sowetan.co.za/szones/sowetanNEW/news/news1160025113.asp
 
This use to happen in the transkei all the time Officers needed money for drink on the weekend and sold their side arms and rifles. They would come in the next day and say er my weapons have been stolen and got new ones issued.
 
I know for a fact that at least 24 went missing from Claremont Police Station, along with around 20 individual ammunition collections (Cape Town). One of the perpetrators was in Pollsmore awaiting trial. I don't know if he's still there.
 
some went missing from the station where I work a few months ago as well.
 
jontyB said:
some went missing from the station where I work a few months ago as well.
Click to expand...

So what happens to the Station Commander?

Why I ask is this.
When I was still doing National Service in the 80's the OC of the army camp I was based at had to go on "Orders" before the General or Brigadier, not sure which, when a couple of R4's went missing.
He personally was in trouble for the missing weapons and had to explain to The General what happened to them.
I think the reasoning behind this was to make sure that from The OC downwards looked after the weapons under his command come hell or high water, as the alternative to losing a weapon was embarrassing for a Colonel or CO, as he would be marched like a mere unranked soldier, or "troop" as they were called in those days, by The RSM (Regimental Sargent Major) into the Generals Office.
 
No more accountability today, just lots of GVT "official" trips and lunches
 
BTTB said:
So what happens to the Station Commander?

Why I ask is this.
When I was still doing National Service in the 80's the OC of the army camp I was based at had to go on "Orders" before the General or Brigadier, not sure which, when a couple of R4's went missing.
He personally was in trouble for the missing weapons and had to explain to The General what happened to them.
I think the reasoning behind this was to make sure that from The OC downwards looked after the weapons under his command come hell or high water, as the alternative to losing a weapon was embarrassing for a Colonel or CO, as he would be marched like a mere unranked soldier, or "troop" as they were called in those days, by The RSM (Regimental Sargent Major) into the Generals Office.
Click to expand...

There are certain checks - we (reservists) cannot take our weapons home. They get left at the station. The reason for this is obvious - It is relatively easy to become a reservist - 12 weeks training and pass a few assessments and you're in. It's extremely easy in SA to operate on a stolen or forged identity, so there are cases of police being police under false pretences. In this specific incident the weapons were not there, an investigation found no one in the police station to blame, so nothing much came of it. Almost more alarming is the number of dockets that go missing - everywhere :eek: One thing I've learnt is the higher you go in the SAPS, the less police and more politician you become.
 
There seems to be close to zero accountability or responsibility in the African cultures. I'm not a racist - I really like black people and have lots as friends - it's just an observation. :)

If 50% of our leaders behaved responsibly and were held accountable we wouldn't have half the problems we're experiencing today.
Maybe if they were taught to be responsible for everything that they do from a young age things would change in this country.
I know black people love their kids but it seems to me that a lot of their kids grow up without decent parental input and guidance. They get left to fend for themselves while daddy is at the shabeen getting drunk and mommy is getting banged by another HIV positive stranger.
 
Seriously, if we aren't going to pay our police properly should we really be surprised that so many of them are corrupt? They're doing a job that's nearly as dangerous as PSO work in Iraq, and they're getting paid next to nothing to do it. We could take a massive stride towards resolving this countries security crisis by simply ensuring that the Cops can feed their families at the end of the day.
 
fewl said:
Seriously, if we aren't going to pay our police properly should we really be surprised that so many of them are corrupt? They're doing a job that's nearly as dangerous as PSO work in Iraq, and they're getting paid next to nothing to do it. We could take a massive stride towards resolving this countries security crisis by simply ensuring that the Cops can feed their families at the end of the day.
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So you're willing to pay 10% more tax so that they can get better salaries and still be corrupt? :p

Corruption believe it or not has little to do with one's salary and a whole lot more to do with one's values and morals.
Why are well paid politicians earning R40K+ per month still corrupt?

I can accept that hungry people may steal bread if they're hungry and can't buy any but that's not the same as stealing firearms from a safe, running cash in transit heist syndicates or car chop shops from the backyard of the local police station.

How much does a policeman get paid? Probably more than I get paid yet I don't resort to theft and criminal activities - I just adjust my standard of living and work harder.
People being a result of their circumstances is a silly notion. People are who they chose to be. You can find some of the most honest, kind and hardworking people in the slum areas of India who's conditions make our squatter camps look palatial.

Crime is a choice my friend.
 
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So you're blah blah nonsense blah blah Crime is a choice my friend.
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:rolleyes:

The emo chick behind the counter at Look & Listen takes home more every month than a guy who has to respond to cash-in-transit heists, and she doesn't get shot at every other day. Until the Cops are able to feed their families -- not buy a Ferrari, just feed their families -- without needing to work a second or a third job, they're always going to be vulnerable to corruption.

What they're paid for the work they do is a disgrace. The number of Cops killed every year bears testimony to that :mad:
 
BTTB said:
So what happens to the Station Commander?

Why I ask is this.
When I was still doing National Service in the 80's the OC of the army camp I was based at had to go on "Orders" before the General or Brigadier, not sure which, when a couple of R4's went missing.
He personally was in trouble for the missing weapons and had to explain to The General what happened to them.
I think the reasoning behind this was to make sure that from The OC downwards looked after the weapons under his command come hell or high water, as the alternative to losing a weapon was embarrassing for a Colonel or CO, as he would be marched like a mere unranked soldier, or "troop" as they were called in those days, by The RSM (Regimental Sargent Major) into the Generals Office.
Click to expand...

BTTB you are usually well informed. This might be an oversight.

Most often only junior officers (Lt, capt.) went on orders. Most of the time for "lelik op straat".

Under no circumstances could a officer be marched on orders by a RSM. When an officer was on orders another officer with a rank at least one higher than the bloke on orders did the marching.

Only an officer who was at best a fool will take orders (instructions - oposed to be on orders)) from a RSM.

On the topic you are totaly correct. It was well known that a OC was responsible for anything that happened in his unit. You could not delegate your responsibilities.
 
fewl said:
The emo chick behind the counter at Look & Listen takes home more every month than a guy who has to respond to cash-in-transit heists, and she doesn't get shot at every other day. Until the Cops are able to feed their families -- not buy a Ferrari, just feed their families -- without needing to work a second or a third job, they're always going to be vulnerable to corruption.

What they're paid for the work they do is a disgrace. The number of Cops killed every year bears testimony to that :mad:
Click to expand...

I don't disagree that their pay may be low but it's still zero reason to resort to crime. :rolleyes:

According to the Minister of Safety and Security a police constable’s salary is R67 000 per annum. And then they get a housing allowance on top of that. I'd hardly call 67000 per annum a disgrace - it's a lot more than I earn per year!
A police officers' pay starts at about R4000 a month. That's not shabby compared to the pay you'd get in the agriculture, construction or mining sectors as a labourer.

Yes it's a dangerous job but no one is forcing anyone to do the job or accept that sort of pay.
If a policeman isn't happy with the danger or pay he should look at another profession - not resort to crime.
 
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jontyB said:
There are certain checks - we (reservists) cannot take our weapons home. They get left at the station. The reason for this is obvious - It is relatively easy to become a reservist - 12 weeks training and pass a few assessments and you're in. .
Click to expand...

So you are saying that the reservists are better trained than actual police ?
I read a while ago that police dont even get a weeks training
 
Paul_S said:
How much does a policeman get paid? Probably more than I get paid yet I don't resort to theft and criminal activities - I just adjust my standard of living and work harder.
People being a result of their circumstances is a silly notion. People are who they chose to be. You can find some of the most honest, kind and hardworking people in the slum areas of India who's conditions make our squatter camps look palatial.

Crime is a choice my friend.
Click to expand...

Saw an ad in the newspaper yesterday where the police advertised for a senior official with all the aa credentials and a salary of R70 400.00 p/a.
 
Amazing how the most important peeps always get paid the lowest salaries - maybe not so true of the police force nowadays - but still true of nurses and teachers - worldwide?

They get left to fend for themselves while daddy is at the shabeen getting drunk and mommy is getting banged by another HIV positive stranger.

Is that a true statement or a gross exaggeration/generalisation?

I know black people love their kids but it seems to me that a lot of their kids grow up without decent parental input and guidance.

The crime we are seeing today certainly seems to come from no input, guidance, or control - but is blamed on apartheid - when these crims hadn't been born yet?

So you're willing to pay 10% more tax so that they can get better salaries and still be corrupt?

I want the 98% of taxi owners and employees - to pay tax! - never mind 10% tax increases. So much for our esteemed finance minister - well - we'll just ignore a major slice of our economy - let the whiteys pay - haven't they always?
 
kilo39 said:
I want the 98% of taxi owners and employees - to pay tax! - never mind 10% tax increases. So much for our esteemed finance minister - well - we'll just ignore a major slice of our economy - let the whiteys pay - haven't they always?
Click to expand...

Even though its the truth you know you will be labled a racist now ? :eek:
 
Getafix said:
BTTB you are usually well informed. :) This might be an oversight.

Most often only junior officers (Lt, capt.) went on orders. Most of the time for "lelik op straat".

Under no circumstances could a officer be marched on orders by a RSM. When an officer was on orders another officer with a rank at least one higher than the bloke on orders did the marching.

Only an officer who was at best a fool will take orders (instructions - oposed to be on orders)) from a RSM.

On the topic you are totaly correct. It was well known that a OC was responsible for anything that happened in his unit. You could not delegate your responsibilities.
Click to expand...

Thanks Getafix :)

As a National Serviceman the highest rank you could attain at the time was either a Full Corporal (two stripes) or a Full Lieutenant (two pips).
Higher Ranks were awarded later to Campers.

I am probably wrong in my assumption, but then National Service was always about rumours and more rumours. :p
I was referring to an incident when I was based at Youngsfield when the Colonel of the Camp was apparently placed on "orders" to the General in Wonderboom, as several R4's went missing. This I was told by one of the Permanent Force members. Of course things have changed quite somewhat since the 1980's. I doubt any of those people are still in the Defence Force and I doubt if the R4's were ever recovered?
Another rumour was that a PTI Sargent was involved, but then again as I said there many rumours doing the rounds at the time.
 
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DigitalSoldier said:
So you are saying that the reservists are better trained than actual police ?
I read a while ago that police dont even get a weeks training
Click to expand...

in a round about way you kind of hit the nail on the head, but with the wrong train of thought. Make no mistake, there are good cops in the SAPS. Most of these cops work their way up and put everything in. The salary sucks. And unfortunately many people die doing police work so the circumstances suck. That being said, a large proportion of the police force is made up from people who would otherwise be jobless - simply because of the scarcity of jobs. Training is straightforward and you don't need the highest IQ to be a policeman or woman. So it stands to reason that a large proportion of permanent police staff are not necessarily the best candidates for the job, because quite frankly the pay and the conditions are atrocious. Police resrvists, however, tend to do this because they're giving something back to the community. They are likely people who would be Policeman and woman if the pay was better. Most reservists have decent paying jobs, and I know a few very well off individuals who are reservists. The basic training is pretty much the same - but there are many police members with qualifications in criminology. There are also many training programs offered to police throughout their service. The problem is not the training - but the ability to understand what's being taught. I've personally dealt with more than a few functional illiterates in my time so far.
 
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