Java vs. Delphi

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Dovi

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I've chosen to do IT as an eighth subject at school for matric, which means I get to choose where I want to do it... Now I'm not sure whether I should find a place that does delphi, or a place that does java. Most people have said go for delphi because it's much easier than java, but I'd rather go for the one which would benefit me more? Suggestions...?
 
Dovi said:
I've chosen to do IT as an eighth subject at school for matric, which means I get to choose where I want to do it... Now I'm not sure whether I should find a place that does delphi, or a place that does java. Most people have said go for delphi because it's much easier than java, but I'd rather go for the one which would benefit me more? Suggestions...?
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JAVA! But hey, we're a java house, so I'm biased ;) :p
 
To learn programming it's better to start off with Delphi. Java has better practical applications but you should be able to apply the principles learnt with Delphi to Java/C++ later on.
 
on Delphi, good language - but I dont think borland is gonna write any more Compilers. so learining Pascal on a dead-horse is a dumb idea. Contact borland and double check the future of the product.
 
There's alot of Java jobs out there, not alot of Delphi ones [rather it's very specific] . I however think Delphi as a language to get into IT/programming and learning the fundementals is the better than Java. Delphi reads much like Visual Basic and is alot more understandable and structured [in fact people tend complain it's TOO verbose [i.e. you need to type alot] ) . However why don't they offer VB.NET/C#.NET instead of Delphi ? [too expensive?]

The Delphi IDE has alot in common with the .NET IDE [Visual Studio] , you can see where Microsoft got their ideas from. The whole database/RAD in Delphi is almost identical now in VB.NET/C# .NET [the dataset/data connector effect to name one]. I loved the Delphi IDE, now primarily find myself in Visual Studio [which i enjoy as well].

Java...well IDE wise, i never got the same satisfaction, i still felt like i'm in an advanced version of Notepad [where i need to do alot of things manually] .
Hardcore coders usually say it's a good thing, but in the end it depends on what you want to do. It's like whether you need to know how to rebuild the engine to drive the car.....programmers vs. engineers ;)

but again, as someone mentioned, Delphi isn't exactly a growing language, i'd also wager it's slowly dying out in favor of VB.NET and C# [again just look at the job opportunities,...]. Although you do get Delphi .NET which means you can code whatever you can code in VB.NET/C#.NET in Delphi with the same results....but i personally think you'll get better support/aid/help sticking to the source of the .NET framework ..which is Microsoft (and their languages)...
 
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It is stupid to base your reason on whether Borland is creating more compilers or what the job market looks like. Start with the language which is better for learning. Pascal (Delphi) is historically good at this.
And dont become a "programmer". They are nothing more than bricklayers.
Learn the concepts of programming now, and do Information Systems at varsity. I will always hire a BCom IS person over a programmer because they adapt rapidly to new technologies (And for many other business related reasons).
Technology changes fast. Learning the pricipals behind things is of much more vaue
 
JStrike said:
I will always hire a BCom IS person over a programmer because they adapt rapidly to new technologies (And for many other business related reasons).
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I am a BCom Hons IS graduate but I find Bsc graduates make better developers. I have recruited 6 the last few months alone and ALL have been Bsc grads. My client at ....a major life insurer in Pinelands :rolleyes: ONLY go for Bsc grads when it comes to developers. Reasoning being, Bsc grads are more techie material and enjoy cutting their teeth doing coding for a good few years. BComm guys are more geared to moving into Systems Analysis\Project Management\ Business Analysis very early in their careers, I should know, I'm a Project manager!!
And please guys, this is MY experience with graduates only, don't mean to rub anyone up the wrong way.

As far as Java is concerned, their is such a shortage in the market in CTN. If you know of any good Java guys, pm me :D Sorry moderators!
 
Delphi (Pascal) is a relatively easy place to start, but Java and C# turned out not to be all that difficult. But when I first learned a programming language neither of the latter existed.

I don't think you can generalize and call programmers the equivalent of bricklayers. There are lots of bad programmers, with and without degrees. Real programming is a very advanced and complex skill. Even most Information Systems graduates will probably never have the specific mental skills and aptitudes to become good programmers.

Make sure you learn the concepts and good programming style. Then you'll always write well and can learn any language as necessary (as I found when I tried learning others after the first one - even though it's just a hobby for me - I compare my stuff to what my best guys produce, and I learn from them).
 
Fiekus said:
I am a BCom Hons IS graduate but I find Bsc graduates make better developers. I have recruited 6 the last few months alone and ALL have been Bsc grads. My client at ....a major life insurer in Pinelands :rolleyes: ONLY go for Bsc grads when it comes to developers. Reasoning being, Bsc grads are more techie material and enjoy cutting their teeth doing coding for a good few years.
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That has been my experience too. I am told that physics, mathematics, applied mathematics and chemistry people also write a lot of programs to analyse data during the course of their degrees. Obviously the computer science crowd do lots of programming. I think perhaps the technical aspects of really understanding what's going on also just fits in with the mindset of people who pursue physics, mathematics and computer science.
 
I've yet to see a post with a good motive for me for choosing delphi over java or vice versa;)
 
Is a High School Computer Studies + BCom IS enough to land oneself a "programming" job?
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I studied B.Eng [industrial engineering] , and am now doing exactly what BSc. Computer Science people "expects" to do . It also turns out my employer are now preferring engineers/Bcom-"technicals" above pure computer scientists as they understand the -business- aspect much better..

Rather i've been told it's easier to get someone with a more business/financial/industrial/specialised background and sufficient technical skills [maths/fundamental programming] to learn and adapt to new technologies/languages than to get a pure technical [mathematical genius kind] person to learn and adapt to business/industrial strategies [commonly known as seeing "the big picture" ] . And it's not necissarily because they can't, but because they don't want to, they prefer knowing every class/method/object of .NET inside out than wondering whether what they're doing is actually solving the client's problem as economical as possible....

You do however need them still for that really complex stuff... ;)
 
exactly! And that's why I love the Bsc guys cause I actually need developers, technical guys who can implement! Our company structure is such that we have the BAs and SAs to sit with the clients and interpret their requirements, but we need the technical expertise and for that the Bsc guys are better, imho
 
I've yet to see a post with a good motive for me for choosing delphi over java or vice versa
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Welll, this got me fired up back in the day with Delphi (primarily because i am a big gamer , great writing games for school projects ;) ]:

http://glscene.sourceforge.net/wikka/HomePage <-- opengl library/wrapper for delphi
http://www.sulaco.co.za/ <--- tutorials here etc

That's an amazing easy to use OpenGL module for Delphi , can do some really cool 3D graphics type of coding ;). Not sure what Java can do in that department [in terms of easy of use and rapid development].

I have however found there's some really hardcore delphi fans out there making alot of effort with source/tutorials/tools/plugins etc etc.
 
If it helps for my first year of IT we started with basic excel stuff (some of us went a bit further into the visual basic stuff), moved onto a really mission-to-use program called Baltie ... very soon after moved onto java - the other languages gave the guys who had no idea what was going on a grounding in basic principles so that we could all catch onto java ...
 
Im going to be studying Bsc IS at UCT next year.

So basically after that Ive got honours. Now is it a good idea to take the 5th year and get masters, or should you rather just stick to honours and go out and get experience as that might benefit you more?

btw, I never did Computer Studies HG (programming) at school, but its not a requirement, and you do Java at Comp Studies and VB.net at UCT. I'm sure it will help alot though..
VB.net seems pretty easy, ive been starting with it already just to get practise as I dont think starting absoloutely from scratch is a great idea at university. There are so really good web tutorials on VB.net.

So you guys think Bsc IS is a solid degreee in the job Market? Its really cool that there are some employers on here.. ill send you a PM in 4 years guys ;)
 
The Bsc/BComm/Diploma debate has been going on for years on end. There are a few fundamental differences between them (from my experience in SAP markets and big corporations during the last 8 years)

BSc CS (Yes, I have one of those): Very technical, focusing on principals of whatever you are using. Provides you with the knowledge to actually understand why things work the way they do, e.g. what is a compiler, how does a compiler work, write your own compiler
BComm: this is focussing more on the business aspect, with limited technical understanding, e.g. You use the compiler like this (as opposed why the compiler works the way it does)
Diploma: Not focusing on either of the above, but more so on the actual programming language.

From a BSc/BComm perspective, it is very easy to teach yourself a new language if you understand the principals behind programming (I have done Assembler, Delphi, Pascal, C, VB, C++, OO C, Java, ABAP/4), mostly self taught.

Oh, and wrt the original question, go for Assembler Code ... that should keep you busy :D

Seriously, I would go for Java. Even though Delphi/Pascal has been tried and tested as "training language", I don't believe that Java is that difficult. There is definitely more opportunities in the Java arena than in the Delphi space.

Oh, any .Net developers in Jhb looking for work? :p
 
Ekhaatvensters : Once you get your honours, it is best to get some experience. The Masters wont get you to Project Management/Analysis/etc any quicker and your starting salary will not be any higher. There is not much benefit unless you are looking at an academic career
 
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