Vista - Why the rivals (such as Apple) don't deliver. [Archive]

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Skeptik

30-01-2007, 03:02 PM

Success by default?

Let's make no mistake: Windows Vista will be a success. But it will happen almost by default.

Corporate IT administrators are tied into Microsoft's network architecture, while consumers will probably pick a PC because they trust brands such as HP, Dell or Sony and because PC manufacturers simply take up more shelf space than Apple's narrow product range.

"Very few consumers will choose to upgrade to Vista," says Mr Colony. "Nobody is choosing to install it, they will upgrade only by buying a new machine."

Forrester estimates that by the end of this year, Vista will have a 15% share of the North American consumer market, which amounts to about 12.2 million units. By 2011 it expects Vista to have 70% of the market, or just over 73 million installations.

Considering that Windows is one of Microsoft's two big profit engines (the other is the productivity software Office), executives at the company headquarters in Redmond, Washington, can probably relax.

But these numbers do not secure Microsoft's future in a rapidly evolving tech landscape.

The problem, says Mr Colony, is Microsoft's brand perception: A Forrester survey of 50,000 consumers suggests that Microsoft is the consumer brand with the highest number of installations, but also the company with the second-lowest approval rating among its customers, says Mr Colony.
.......................

Why the rivals don't deliver

Microsoft's weakness, however, is also its biggest strength.

Rival Apple may grab the headlines (and the biggest share of the MP3 player market), but in the computer space it is puny.

The reason: Apple insists on controlling the whole package, from the operating system to the central hardware.

As a result, Apple lacks the breadth of hard- and software that attracts customers.

Apple may glow in the halo of its iconic iPods and gain kudos from the tech-savvy crowd. But so far, the shallowness of Apple's industrial ecosystem has made the firm's offering pricey and limited its success in the market place.

Microsoft's other rival, the open-source Linux operating system, has a similar problem.

Even though products like Ubuntu and Suse Linux show great promise, there are still issues with compatibility and ease of use.
extract from Can Microsoft's Vista inspire consumers? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6310599.stm

bwana

30-01-2007, 03:03 PM

Er - Apple certainly delivers and this is why
The reason: Apple insists on controlling the whole package, from the operating system to the central hardware.Thats why stuff works.

bam-bam

30-01-2007, 03:57 PM

i feel sorry for the people who don't use apple, from an avid windows user for 15 years & now an apple user, i now have more time for other things other than fixing my computer ! As the Apple saying goes " It just works " Thank god for that !

Microsoft may be making more money than Apple but who cares, it's all about making an individuals life easier & Apple sure does do that !

Instead of taking down Microsoft, why don't we start making our lives easier then the rest will follow !

Just my tuuu cents on the whole Apple vs Microsoft battle !

bam-bam

30-01-2007, 04:02 PM

& if Apple makes the software in which all Windows applications i.e *.exe files that will work on Mac OSx, is there a need for Windows anymore ?

An old iBook or Emac goes a long long way ... compared to a Windows machine which changes like we change our underwear, no offense to the " Go Commando " people LOL :p

Try installing Mac OS x 10.3 on an old Emac of Clamshell iBook, it actually works faster than the old OS.

Again, my 3 cents on the whole topic LOL :)

hj2k_x

30-01-2007, 09:05 PM

lol, even i agree MAC > Microsoft. Always

PeterCH

30-01-2007, 10:56 PM

I don't think Apple always works. For instance I laughed at the US Apple ad where the Apple guy could communicate with the Japanese camera (girl)
while the Windows guy was left speechless. I own two Canon scanners,
neither of which are supported by OSX. Sadly one of the scanners is less than
a year old. You'd think OSX would support it, but no banana.

Overall however Mac OS looks and feels better. Stuff just works as you've
said. I fired up a game of Quake4 on my Mac Pro and it works beautifully,
I fire up Final Cut Pro and Motion 2 etc. Sadly my MWEB web based email
doesn't work with Safari maybe IE for Mac will work with it.

bwana

30-01-2007, 11:00 PM

I don't think Apple always works. For instance I laughed at the US Apple ad where the Apple guy could communicate with the Japanese camera (girl)
while the Windows guy was left speechless. I own two Canon scanners,
neither of which are supported by OSX. Sadly one of the scanners is less than
a year old. You'd think OSX would support it, but no banana.Aim some blame at canon for that one - they also make drivers ;) I bought a HP laser jet the other day which I couldnt get to work for love or money. Fortunately Makro has a great returns policy so I got a Lexmark instead - and lexmark had drivers :)

EDIT - Mweb's message centre works for me - try this - go to preferences > security > change Accept Cookies to always. Mweb, and all the signmein pages, are poorly designed.

froggytoo

30-01-2007, 11:06 PM

Fortunately Makro has a great returns policy so :)

Why I buy 90% of technology items there, Price and service.

Back to topic: Apple and Linux just cannot beat the ease and integration "performance" of M$ yet. Maybe in 10-50 years. 95% is a huge deficit to overcome IMHO.

bwana

30-01-2007, 11:09 PM

Why I buy 90% of technology items there, Price and service.

Back to topic: Apple and Linux just cannot beat the ease and integration "performance" of M$ yet. Maybe in 10-50 years. 95% is a huge deficit to overcome IMHO.They dont need to become the dominant player - their piece of the pie is rapidly growing and they're making money.

I really have no idea what you mean about ease and integration "performance" issues with Apple. Ever used one? :confused:

PeterCH

31-01-2007, 12:10 AM

Aim some blame at canon for that one - they also make drivers ;) I bought a HP laser jet the other day which I couldnt get to work for love or money. Fortunately Makro has a great returns policy so I got a Lexmark instead - and lexmark had drivers :)

EDIT - Mweb's message centre works for me - try this - go to preferences > security > change Accept Cookies to always. Mweb, and all the signmein pages, are poorly designed.

Thanks for the tip.

As for Canon being to blame, WinXP drivers DO exist for both scanners yet
none exist for Mac OSX. I should blame Canon but it's Apple which runs ads which boast ease of connectivity of the latest imaging gadgets, and
Canon is such a company, from Japan of all places :).

icyrus

31-01-2007, 09:26 AM

adsl3g

31-01-2007, 01:45 PM

bam-bam

31-01-2007, 01:53 PM

firstly .... i also have a canon scanner & i found a app called " CanoScan Toolbox 4.1 " which works perfectly for my scanner.

I bought a logitech webcam sphere mp, really cool webcam specially made for "windows" logitech europe & usa support says there no mac driver but then i found a third party driver which worked perfectly & works great on ichat, skype, etc ... video calling...

as i said earlier.... its not about taking microsoft down & STILL keeping our lives miserable by continuously fixing our computers or upgrading it all the time ... Microsoft made IT companies where they are today, no offense to the IT guys but if Microsoft were not what it is today, you'll probably be a (S)ollywood actor or something LOL :p

Technology suppose to make our life easier not harder!

Some websites do not work on safari, which i agree but its no macs fault, its the web designers fault, at least we can use Mac IE.

With regards to printers, i've had many printers which did not support mac but found drivers for it that worked, not compromising on quality or features in any way.

One thing cool is hook ur mac mini up with the intel 64mb graphics card & watch a 380mb smallville episode via front row & compare that to a 256mb graphics card on a pc, Apple video encoding & compression working in conjunction with Mac OSx kicks buttt. What about the h.264 encoded videos you buy on the itunes store which has the resolution of 640 x 480, the quality is like super amazing.

again, my 4 cents on the topic LOL :)

Skeptik

31-01-2007, 02:10 PM

On the subject of Scanners - I've just bought a Canon 4400F. On the box it claims to support both Apple & PC. It even includes Mac versions of Omnipage SE and some photo organising tools. It doesn't have Newsoft Pagemanager on the Mac side though.

I agree with most of the article. Apple is far too controlling. Now that they have dropped the 'Computer' from their name, perhaps they will sideline the Mac side and concentrate on their software.

I reckon Apple needs to release OSX for Vista and then we would see more software for Mac and start the showdown with MS.

Syndyre

31-01-2007, 02:47 PM

What do you mean OSX for Vista?

bwana

31-01-2007, 03:21 PM

What do you mean OSX for Vista?I think he means osx for PC and it would be a huge mistake - bootcamp is enough of an abomination.

Now if you'll excuse me I have to get back to migrating everything onto my new MBP (which btw wont have bootcamp but might have parallels if I can be bothered) :D

Skeptik

31-01-2007, 03:27 PM

What's wrong with Bootcamp?

Just the 'having to reboot' problem...

icyrus

31-01-2007, 03:30 PM

What's wrong with Bootcamp?

Just the 'having to reboot' problem...

My guess is he feels tainted by windows ;)

bwana

31-01-2007, 03:31 PM

What's wrong with Bootcamp?

Just the 'having to reboot' problem...Nope - the problem is I dont need windows (thats the true abomination on a mac) and then there is the chunk of hdd I'd have to allocate for it. Adjusting the partition size is a pain.

Skeptik

31-01-2007, 03:51 PM

bwana

31-01-2007, 04:03 PM

I think Apple realised that most people want the Windows capability despite the grand OSX system. For the very reason stated - that Windows is popular by default. You may say you don't use/need it but thousands do. This is the Betamax/VHS debate.
We know OSX is better, but with Apple's 'keep it to ourselves strategy', they won't win.Who says they're trying to win? They've been around for 30 years so I'm going to go out on a limb and say their longevity has little to do with bootcamp and the ability to run windows. A virtual environment might have something to offer though.

Besides - unlike M$oft, Apple is primarily a hardware manufacturer so their competition is the likes of dell and hp. Thinking they'll focus on software? It aint going to happen.

ShockG

31-01-2007, 04:07 PM

tiger is cool. Vista is better.
Vista plays games :P

icyrus

31-01-2007, 04:16 PM

tiger is cool. Vista is better.
Vista plays games :P

So more game studios choosing directx as their platform over opengl makes vista better?

bwana

31-01-2007, 04:16 PM

tiger is cool. Vista is better.
Vista plays games :PLeopard will take care of that ;)

I've always maintained of you play games get a pc - I've since replaced the pc with a 360.

chiskop

31-01-2007, 04:20 PM

So? I don't play games and so am immune to this lock-in that gamers are going to be subjected to. :D

What does Vista offer me that I can't already get on OSX or the linux of my choice?

Skeptik

31-01-2007, 04:34 PM

Who says they're trying to win? They've been around for 30 years so I'm going to go out on a limb and say their longevity has little to do with bootcamp and the ability to run windows. A virtual environment might have something to offer though.

Besides - unlike M$oft, Apple is primarily a hardware manufacturer so their competition is the likes of dell and hp. Thinking they'll focus on software? It aint going to happen.
LOL
Well if they're not trying to win, what are they doing in business. Winning is defined as capturing the market. It's what all companies do.
I'm saying if they are confident that OSX is better, then they should offer it to everyone, not just the ones locked in to Apple hardware.

bwana

31-01-2007, 04:45 PM

BobJones

31-01-2007, 05:38 PM

LOL
Well if they're not trying to win, what are they doing in business. Winning is defined as capturing the market. It's what all companies do.
I'm saying if they are confident that OSX is better, then they should offer it to everyone, not just the ones locked in to Apple hardware.
There are loads of definitions of what winning in business is. I thought being insanely profitable consituted winning.:)

Anyway OS X is available to everyone - all you need to do is buy a mac!:p

I think that PC buyers regard upgradeability as some sort of holy grail - when the reality is that most PCs never receive a major upgrade in their entire useful lives, esp. if it is a corporate machine.

This is different from configurability, which it can be argued that there is just too much confusing choice out there for consumers now. Have you tried configuring a Dell in their online store recently? It's a nightmare. You have to be a real geek to tell the difference between the available configuations - and you really don't know what you are getting in terms of performance boost if you do eventually buy.
I argue that there is really very little benefit except for price difference to be had.

Apple's market segmentation makes much more sense. Broad strokes for most people, with a whole array of options for the real power user.