View Full Version : And so it begins. Modded 360's officially banned from Live
doobiwan
18-05-2007, 09:52 AM
http://gamerscoreblog.com/team/archive/2007/05/17/545414.aspx
Keeping Xbox LIVE Fair
One of the great things about LIVE and the unified community is that we work hard to create a level playing field for all gamers and have a no tolerance policy towards inappropriate behavior like hacking or cheating. As part of our commitment to our members, we do not allow people that we have detected to have modified their console to connect to LIVE. This is an important part of our efforts to try and maintain a fair gaming environment for the large majority of gamers that play by the rules. This topic is more important than ever given the recent release of the Halo 3 beta. As a result, some consumers that try to login to LIVE who we detect have illegally modified their console will get an error code (Status Code: Z: 8015 - 190D) when trying to connect to the service. These users will not have their account automatically banned from LIVE, but they will no longer be able to access the service from the console they modified.
We have stated in the past that customers can only enjoy access to the Xbox LIVE community through the use of a genuine, unmodified, Xbox console and we will continue to enforce this rule to ensure the integrity of our service, the protection of our partners and the benefits of our users.
About time.
Retro
18-05-2007, 09:59 AM
Wonder how long before someone finds a way around it? ;-)
Toxin
18-05-2007, 10:05 AM
This is for consoles that have been "chipped" right? I wonder if someone will be able to bypass it with a different "chip"?
BTW, what does "chipping" mean anyway? Do they add a special chip in the console?
useless
18-05-2007, 10:12 AM
Let them have it I say.
noxibox
18-05-2007, 10:20 AM
BTW, what does "chipping" mean anyway? Do they add a special chip in the console?
Yes. You have generally needed to modify consoles to remove region coding and allow booting unsigned code. Region codes are put in place to allow overcharging for games. Typically PAL region consumers are charged much higher prices than those in the US NTSC region. Preventing booting unsigned code is meant to lock out unapproved development. In theory this ensures that only quality software is released for the console. In practice it meant anyone who couldn't afford the hefty devkit fees couldn't develop or learn to develop for the console system.
So far the XBox 360 has not lived up to the no region lock promise for games and it is still locked for movies. It remains to be seen whether the PS3 keeps to the promise of not locking games to a region, but I expect it will still need to be modified to allow playback of imported movies.
This is for consoles that have been "chipped" right? I wonder if someone will be able to bypass it with a different "chip"?
All good modchips can be disabled. When disabled they cannot be detected. If there aren't yet any for the current consoles there will be in time.
doobiwan
18-05-2007, 11:26 AM
Noxi, I'd call that a bit harsh, but not untrue. Region locks are at the developers discretion at the moment and there are a lot of 360 games that are not locked. GoW's and Rainbow Six come to mind.
All consoles contain anti piracy measure, so you can't run copied games. "Modding" is the overall term used to describe circumvention of these measures. "Chipping" is circumvention via a physic chip (duh ;)) that fools the console into thinking it's running a legit app.
The 360 "Mod" is not a chip, some smart cookie figured out a way to flash (reprogram) the chip that controls the DVD drive in the 360 and fool it into not checking if a game is a copy or not, so a lot of folks refer to these xboxes as "hacked" rather than chipped.
Noxi, as far as "blocking" learning console development, how do you feel about XNA?
tibby.dude
18-05-2007, 11:53 AM
The isssue is not mod chips but folks uploading their saved games for others to download and play and thus getting achievements and gamer points without playing the game.
Microsoft download every one of these save games (which contains your unique console id) from the websites and added that to a block list so that when you load it it will corrupt it.
GavinMannion
18-05-2007, 12:01 PM
The isssue is not mod chips but folks uploading their saved games for others to download and play and thus getting achievements and gamer points without playing the game.
Microsoft download every one of these save games (which contains your unique console id) from the websites and added that to a block list so that when you load it it will corrupt it.
You are getting two stories confused here...
They are clamping down on share cheating but they are also blocking modded consoles from logging onto Live!.
What they are also doing is banning the user of the modded console as well so that your possibly fake gamerscore can not be increased any more even from an unmodded console.
tibby.dude
18-05-2007, 12:03 PM
I am a bit behind the news it seems ... so that can now detect scumbags with reflashed drives that use cough cough "backup" discs ... it is so easy for them to read the IDE drive firmware and to a hash on it and compare that with manufacturing date.
Very sneaky bastards to time it with the HALO 3 public beta test but good for Microsoft :).
tibby.dude
18-05-2007, 12:05 PM
You are getting two stories confused here.
Well more evidence that I need to subscribe to your blog :).
tibby.dude
18-05-2007, 12:08 PM
http://pictures.xbox-scene.com/xbox360/banned/cimg0452ir3.jpg
"There is NO recourse for Terms of Use violations"
Oh dear ... looks like a lot of people is going to buy a new Core system ;).
GavinMannion
18-05-2007, 12:11 PM
Yeah I love that line....
I presume this ability was included in the Spring update and like you say they have kept it quiet until the Halo 3 beta...
I heard a lot of people complaining that they got strange "Game Over" messages from the Halo 3 Beta and now they cannot connect anymore..
Talk about it really being Game over :D
I have no problem with modding of consoles...You bought it do with it as you please...but please, PLEASE! dont bitch and moan when Microsoft do something to stop you from using there additional services!....because then I laugh at you....if your smart enough to get it modded you should be smart enough to understand the consequences...LOL@U modders:p
doobiwan
21-05-2007, 03:28 PM
Spot on Z3r0.
It's does cause quite a bit of friction over second hand purchases. I imagine the 2nd hand 360 US market will move more to in person transactions away from ebay.
GougedEye
21-05-2007, 06:08 PM
Another reason for "Modding" is to allow for game cheats by circumventing the built in controls that prevent modified versions of clients. So MS kicking these guys protects the Live service as well as making pirating a little less attractive.
As to whether a new fix will appears soon to bypass the current detection scheme. Absolutely. Don't know if that will help you with your banned 360 though. Once it's banned, it probably stays banned. So you will have to apply the new fix on a new 360. And I bet you MS have x other detection schemes waiting that have not yet been revealed.
Agree that you will really have to be brave (or stupid) to e-bay a 2nd hand 360 now.
noxibox
21-05-2007, 06:40 PM
The 360 "Mod" is not a chip, some smart cookie figured out a way to flash (reprogram) the chip that controls the DVD drive in the 360 and fool it into not checking if a game is a copy or not, so a lot of folks refer to these xboxes as "hacked" rather than chipped.
I am aware of this. It is a fairly useless modification because it appears to do nothing to remove region coding for movies and games. Proper modchips for the 360 will provide the full range of features. Hopefully someone can even provide a tool to boot games off a hard drive.
I am also aware of the list of 360 games and that there are some examples of publishers not locking their games, but there is no reason to even give them the option. They can choose to only officially release a game in a single country, but they are not entitled to decide it cannot be exported/imported by others. It is an anti-competitive measure.
Noxi, as far as "blocking" learning console development, how do you feel about XNA?
It sounded like a good idea.
noxibox
21-05-2007, 06:44 PM
if your smart enough to get it modded you should be smart enough to understand the consequences...
It is well known that you don't try to connect to multiplayer services with your modchip enabled.
GavinMannion
22-05-2007, 08:41 AM
It is well known that you don't try to connect to multiplayer services with your modchip enabled.
Heres a great idea that Microsoft could use that I just thought off in 2 seconds... do you think they managed to think of this yet?
Everytime the machine is turned on check the hardware, if there is something that should not be there change the 'ModFlag' to True...
When the box connects to Live check if ModFlag == True. If so disconnect.
This would get around all those intelligent people who disable the Modchip before connecting...
Now I wonder if any of the thousands of developers at Microsoft have managed to think of this :rolleyes:
doobiwan
22-05-2007, 09:44 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if it does that already. At the very least if it's checking when you hop onto Live it's stopping the most important offence - cheating.
sleeper
22-05-2007, 10:07 AM
They will just make a ModChip that will set the ModFlag to false again :)
tibby.dude
22-05-2007, 10:34 AM
Now I wonder if any of the thousands of developers at Microsoft have managed to think of this :rolleyes:
My understanding is that they can detect a "hacked" firmware drive by remotely sending a command via XBox Live to your Xbox to measure the calibration of the drive to pick up the subtle differences between a DVD pressed by their factory and one that was done by a home DVD recorder.
Apparently they have been collecting these stats on Live for some time and brought down the hammer just after the Beta Halo 3 ... pretty damm smart if you ask me.
GavinMannion
22-05-2007, 11:25 AM
I actually also read somewhere now (lost the link sorry) that they can tell if your xbox has been modified by the firmware reacting faster than it should?
Basically since it is newer programming in the mod than the original os it actually is quicker than a standard os by the smallest margin.
It seems very complicated ;)
bwana
22-05-2007, 11:29 AM
My understanding is that they can detect a "hacked" firmware drive by remotely sending a command via XBox Live to your Xbox to measure the calibration of the drive to pick up the subtle differences between a DVD pressed by their factory and one that was done by a home DVD recorder.Does microsoft press all of the DVDs regardless of the game?
Apparently they have been collecting these stats on Live for some time and brought down the hammer just after the Beta Halo 3 ... pretty damm smart if you ask me.Anyone know if its worth the 1000mb download? I gave my crackdown away but the guy is in CPT for the week so might grab the disk if it is.
GavinMannion
22-05-2007, 11:34 AM
Does microsoft press all of the DVDs regardless of the game?Anyone know if its worth the 1000mb download? I gave my crackdown away but the guy is in CPT for the week so might grab the disk if it is.
Microsoft don't press any of the DVD's they outsource that ;)
Halo 3 is very much worth it if you are a Halo fan... Or a FPS fan.
it's an online multiplayer game only, there is no single player in the Beta so if you are into that sort of thing it is well worth it.
bwana
22-05-2007, 11:38 AM
it's an online multiplayer game only, there is no single player in the Beta so if you are into that sort of thing it is well worth it.Might be worth it then - I finally bought a month of Gold membership :)
GavinMannion
22-05-2007, 11:41 AM
Hey congratulations :D
Well you will get to play a lot of games with your country men at least if you are feeling homesick..
The lag is suprisingly good playing against overseas people as well....
greggpb
22-05-2007, 11:44 AM
I' dont know.. i am all for moding an xbox when it comes to adding serivces...
Like Ftp, Divx support proper medai player support access to the hard drive... I am against "backup" games...
But just because i want to use my hardware for somthing besides gaming should ms be able to ban me from LIVE ?
GougedEye
22-05-2007, 11:54 AM
IBut just because i want to use my hardware for somthing besides gaming should ms be able to ban me from LIVE ?Yep. Unfortunately as soon as MS allow modding they lose control of Live and their single biggest deterent to piracy. There will be no way of telling what the boxes are running or doing. Live will be overrun by cheeting before you can say L33t.
GavinMannion
22-05-2007, 11:56 AM
I' dont know.. i am all for moding an xbox when it comes to adding serivces...
Like Ftp, Divx support proper medai player support access to the hard drive... I am against "backup" games...
But just because i want to use my hardware for somthing besides gaming should ms be able to ban me from LIVE ?
Unfortunately as GougedEye pointed out they can and must stop you to prevent cheating which is a big problem in online multiplayer games.
however this does make me wonder if the PS3's online server is ever going to be stable enough to compete. You can run Linux on the PS3 'legally' which means you can seriously mess around in the OS...
doobiwan
22-05-2007, 12:05 PM
Absolutely, it's in the terms and services you agree to by using the product. If you want an open platform buy a PC, if you want subsidized high end hardware, buy a console.
I personally think Microsoft are being exceptionally lenient about the whole thing by just banning the boxes off live. Consider that chipping not only violates the T&C of the device, but in the US it violates the DCMA, which is a criminal offence. (I'm NOT I repeat NOT agreeing with the DCMA, but it exists)
Consider what they could have done? They could brick the unit, but I imagine that'd be a stretch, they could "nerf" it - force you to take it in for repairs and stop you from playing games on it. They could, and surprisingly didn't, ban the accounts using the machine.
So if you did use a modded 360, you can still play single player and you can still use your account online, provided you buy an unmodded console. The only inconvenience this introduces is that people have to be very wary when buying second hand 360's, and need to test it on Live before buying.
Personally I'm really glad they're taking a proactive approach to combating cheaters, who are 95% the target of the ban.
doobiwan it makes you wonder why they didnt ban the accounts?.....because now all those dudes that wanna keep there gamertags and score just have to go buy another xbox360....YAY for increased console sales;)
doobiwan
22-05-2007, 12:52 PM
Don't anyone ever call MS anything but shrewd ;) That way they don't lose fanboys either, hopefully turning them into loyal citizens . . . :p
tibby.dude
22-05-2007, 12:57 PM
You can run Linux on the PS3 'legally' which means you can seriously mess around in the OS...
It is officially supported by Sony BUT it runs on top of their "hypervisor" (think of it as OS that runs another OS on top of it) so that you can't fiddle with anything like saved games or any content stored by games.
GavinMannion
22-05-2007, 02:05 PM
It is officially supported by Sony BUT it runs on top of their "hypervisor" (think of it as OS that runs another OS on top of it) so that you can't fiddle with anything like saved games or any content stored by games.
Yeah but..... it just seems like a dangerous idea, Linux is a powerful system and with that much control how long do you think it will take before people are getting around the protection...
I obviously could be wrong again but Sony has never been a software house.