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Question of the Day: Will you be subscribing to the new Disney+ R49 streaming package?
Caps, Traffic Shaping and Contention Ratios
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ldmelsa
Executive Member
Classic!
LCBXX
Honorary Master
I don't mind the shaping on standard ADSL accounts. It ensures that certain people are prevented from hogging certain P2P ports and slowing down traffic for other users who simply want to browse etc. It makes sense to charge more for an unshaped connection.
What I do mind is the current cap levels. My gut feel is that less people will mind weather shaping is enabled or not if a decent cap level is offered. By decent I mean a minimum of 3GB international and uncapped local, and by uncapped local I mean unlimited local traffic that does not deplete the 3GB first.
What I do mind is the current cap levels. My gut feel is that less people will mind weather shaping is enabled or not if a decent cap level is offered. By decent I mean a minimum of 3GB international and uncapped local, and by uncapped local I mean unlimited local traffic that does not deplete the 3GB first.
ldmelsa
Executive Member
Not any more, thanks to YouTube
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070619-the-youtube-effect-http-traffic-now-eclipses-p2p.html
Video sites are going to be the biggest headache for Telkom's so called BroadBand. Before, Telkom's defence was that it was only "power users" who complained. Now it's going to be granny and grandpa complaining when they can't see their grandkids on YouTube because their 1gig Go ADSL ran out in the first week. It's going to be fun trying to watch them try square that with being "Consumer Centric".
if you been given a line and a certain amount of data,isn't it your right to do what you want with that data? hog or not? using it whenever and however you like.
i would love really free local account.i would be classified as a heavy user dl on average 20 to 30 gig a month. i am just wondering how would this work if it ever becomes free? who would be the isp?
i would love really free local account.i would be classified as a heavy user dl on average 20 to 30 gig a month. i am just wondering how would this work if it ever becomes free? who would be the isp?
eltherza
Expert Member
this is a very cool way to compare to the rest of the world and the products. iBurst 40MB at 8100:1... wow...
While that is your opinion, my opinion is that I strongly disagree that unshaped bandwidth should ever cost more than shaped bandwidth. Unshaped bandwidth is the raw bandwidth that Telkodemonopolies starts with, and then Telkodemonopolies takes that unshaped bandwidth and seriously retards it into shaped bandwidth, which also costs much more than it should cost. By default consumers should get unshaped bandwidth, and those that want prioritized traffic according to protocol or port, should then have the option of paying more for shaped bandwidth to suite their personal needs. Consider the example of trying to use VoIP over shaped bandwidth - Telkodemonopolies does not shape VoIP to protect its network from over-utilization or bandwidth saturation, instead Telkodemonopolies shapes in order to protect its analogue voice revenue stream.
ernstn
Expert Member
It is quite right that it puts South Africa at a disadvantage to the rest of the world. I went to a Microsoft presentation on Tuesday where the guy stared in horror when demonstrating Live Earth and in the end just had to say that he has not ever seen it so slow. He was even forced to change his presentation, to let things happen in background and talking around it.
It is really time to kick out the old rubbish thinking and refresh our thinking with the new world. The web is certainly not about browsing and emails anymore.That is antiquated thinking. People now play games against other people in the world, have video and radio streaming, access maps and encyclopedias interactively. People interact using different methods such as video and voice. Our suppliers of "broadband" have to wake up to the fact that in the rest of the world, port shaping, 3gbyte extremely expensive caps, worrying about local or international traffic is not on, and start providing us with the type of service that we need to be on a par with the rest of the world. At a price that is competitive with the rest of the world.
International traffic would be no problem in a world where everything cost wise was on a par, because people would host sites locally. In fact we would also start using the redundant part of SAT3 where world wide, people will start accessing our sites here.
The amount of effort and cost that has gone into monitoring 3 gbyte caps and port shaping et all should have been directed from the word go to providing a world class competitive service. Instead of every "new" broadband supplier regurgetating the historical Telkom rubbish of caps, portshaping etc,create a new mindset by launching a world competitive service.
The days of being isolated in the world has long passed by and it is time to export our skills, ingenuity and creativity rather than our raw materials. And for that we need a competitive communications environment.
It is really time to kick out the old rubbish thinking and refresh our thinking with the new world. The web is certainly not about browsing and emails anymore.That is antiquated thinking. People now play games against other people in the world, have video and radio streaming, access maps and encyclopedias interactively. People interact using different methods such as video and voice. Our suppliers of "broadband" have to wake up to the fact that in the rest of the world, port shaping, 3gbyte extremely expensive caps, worrying about local or international traffic is not on, and start providing us with the type of service that we need to be on a par with the rest of the world. At a price that is competitive with the rest of the world.
International traffic would be no problem in a world where everything cost wise was on a par, because people would host sites locally. In fact we would also start using the redundant part of SAT3 where world wide, people will start accessing our sites here.
The amount of effort and cost that has gone into monitoring 3 gbyte caps and port shaping et all should have been directed from the word go to providing a world class competitive service. Instead of every "new" broadband supplier regurgetating the historical Telkom rubbish of caps, portshaping etc,create a new mindset by launching a world competitive service.
The days of being isolated in the world has long passed by and it is time to export our skills, ingenuity and creativity rather than our raw materials. And for that we need a competitive communications environment.
deja vu anyone?
Ernstn makes a good point about the monitoring and shaping of traffic, it all just adds cost and complexity to the network and Telkom are currently using it as their part of their lame argument that they cant distinguish betweeen local and international traffic and therfore cap local and int traffic (illegaly) together. If they gave reasonable caps (in line with international providers)they would not have to bother.
We also tend to disregard Proxy servers. Popular material, music, vids, web sites etc will get served to us localy via a proxy saving ISPs a ton of cash and international traffic. Maybe we should in fact demand non proxy traffic. I should be getting packets direct from the source I want not some pre cached traffic (although Proxy servers grenerally improve performance and your web experience). Isps esentially make money every time a preserved piece of data is demanded again.....Arrrrgghhhhh, I cant bear this, Im going to write another foul letter to ICASA. It so makes my blood boil.
Ernstn makes a good point about the monitoring and shaping of traffic, it all just adds cost and complexity to the network and Telkom are currently using it as their part of their lame argument that they cant distinguish betweeen local and international traffic and therfore cap local and int traffic (illegaly) together. If they gave reasonable caps (in line with international providers)they would not have to bother.
We also tend to disregard Proxy servers. Popular material, music, vids, web sites etc will get served to us localy via a proxy saving ISPs a ton of cash and international traffic. Maybe we should in fact demand non proxy traffic. I should be getting packets direct from the source I want not some pre cached traffic (although Proxy servers grenerally improve performance and your web experience). Isps esentially make money every time a preserved piece of data is demanded again.....Arrrrgghhhhh, I cant bear this, Im going to write another foul letter to ICASA. It so makes my blood boil.
Yes, yes, yes. Absolutely, and well put. But I feel the 3GB is far to low--SA consumer's thinking is still inside the box.
With 3GB I would not be in a position to download music or movies.
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Shape it or CAP it... cant have cake and eat it.
Over and over we go.
This is just another way of looking at how badly we are getting it.
IMHO restricting usage under umbrella of protecting quality of service and equality for all is wearing thin.
Ether shape a line to prevent abuse or drop price and cap. As the charts show you are selling 5 minutes oc broadband connection. Right now you are STEALING. You monopolistic scum, and that goes for your 38 % as well Mr. President.
Over and over we go.
This is just another way of looking at how badly we are getting it.
IMHO restricting usage under umbrella of protecting quality of service and equality for all is wearing thin.
Ether shape a line to prevent abuse or drop price and cap. As the charts show you are selling 5 minutes oc broadband connection. Right now you are STEALING. You monopolistic scum, and that goes for your 38 % as well Mr. President.
quovadis
Honorary Master
Shaped vs Unshaped
At the end of the day the Internet is the Internet and Shaped vs Unshaped is something which South African ISPs should be ashamed of. The real reason for it is financial.
Shaped ports used for web traffic (the major one being port 80/http) are in most cases cacheable on the ISPs proxy server. Now if 500 of their subscribers all access CNN.com and BBC.com 10 times per day. Thats 5000 page requests per day with bandwidth usage of +- 500MB of data (assuming 100KB of data per page) which then is subtracted from their CAPs or they are charged for.
However since port 80/http is cacheable the ISP actually only requests a fraction of that bandwidth used from the overseas websites as most of the content would be cached locally on the ISP's proxy server. So in essence the ISP is selling 500MB of data but only used 20MB or 50MB of data to provide it to their subscribers. This is standard practice in most ISP markets around the world however it is there to speed up connectivity for their subscribers who already have unlimited and uncapped bandwidth.
Unshaped however is usually point to point data which cannot be cached and as such is "more expensive" obviously as they cannot it serve it locally.
At the end of the day the Internet is the Internet and Shaped vs Unshaped is something which South African ISPs should be ashamed of. The real reason for it is financial.
Shaped ports used for web traffic (the major one being port 80/http) are in most cases cacheable on the ISPs proxy server. Now if 500 of their subscribers all access CNN.com and BBC.com 10 times per day. Thats 5000 page requests per day with bandwidth usage of +- 500MB of data (assuming 100KB of data per page) which then is subtracted from their CAPs or they are charged for.
However since port 80/http is cacheable the ISP actually only requests a fraction of that bandwidth used from the overseas websites as most of the content would be cached locally on the ISP's proxy server. So in essence the ISP is selling 500MB of data but only used 20MB or 50MB of data to provide it to their subscribers. This is standard practice in most ISP markets around the world however it is there to speed up connectivity for their subscribers who already have unlimited and uncapped bandwidth.
Unshaped however is usually point to point data which cannot be cached and as such is "more expensive" obviously as they cannot it serve it locally.
ben dover
Senior Member
Ok, caps, traffic, shaping aside i think we are all missing the bigger picture here.
Say, for instance i buy a 512K line from Telkom...that means i have paid for 512K, never mind the fact that i won't always get that speed, it's up to me how i would like to use that line. Whether it be P2P, Streaming video's. or just generally downloading whatever i feel like, it's up to me! When telkom say that they give you a 512K line, it should be 512K, CONSTANTLY, THATS WHAT WE'RE PAYING FOR! When it comes to Caps it's another story, in my mind we should be liable for the traffic we download anyways, not upward, but thats just me venting...Contention ratios don't mean a thing to me, i'm the subscriber.
If telkom or whoever wants to shape my bandwidth...well...to me i am being shoved aside and someone else is sharing my 512K line...doesn't make sense!
Say, for instance i buy a 512K line from Telkom...that means i have paid for 512K, never mind the fact that i won't always get that speed, it's up to me how i would like to use that line. Whether it be P2P, Streaming video's. or just generally downloading whatever i feel like, it's up to me! When telkom say that they give you a 512K line, it should be 512K, CONSTANTLY, THATS WHAT WE'RE PAYING FOR! When it comes to Caps it's another story, in my mind we should be liable for the traffic we download anyways, not upward, but thats just me venting...Contention ratios don't mean a thing to me, i'm the subscriber.
If telkom or whoever wants to shape my bandwidth...well...to me i am being shoved aside and someone else is sharing my 512K line...doesn't make sense!
ShaunSA
Derailment Squad
Well said ernstn! Such a pity that so many people fail to realise that using the internet only for browsing and email went out with the arc.