Telkom response

rpm

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Hi friends

At long last we received a reply from Telkom. This reply is far from satisfactory and they are making us out be the problem. Please give your views and comments about this reply.

_____________________________________

TELKOM RESPONDS TO ADSL COMPLAINTS

ADSL has become a major discussion point in the media, driven by a few
customers who are dissatisfied with the service. Commenting on the
criticism of the service Telkom's Steven White, Executive Product
Development said that most of its nearly 10 000 customer base have no
problems with ADSL and in fact experience the real value that ADSL
brings, always available fast internet.
ADSL is an access product used to connect to Internet Service
Providers (ISP's) via the South African Internet Exchange (SAIX). The
ADSL access service is based on the following value propositions:
* Access speed
Fast access with down loads at 512
kbps and uploads at 256 kbps.
* Always available connection
The connection is not dialled up but
is always available except for session timeout after 24 hours. This
was introduced to enable Telkom to determine daily usage in order to
measure and manage the volumes uploaded and downloaded. This session
timeout also ensures that dynamic IP addresses are assigned. Session
timeout will occur 24 hours after previous login. Customers can login
immediately after being disconnected. In addition the ADSL session
will also be disconnected after idling for sixty minutes. A click on
the mouse will re-establish the connection.
* Flat rated service
There are no dial-up (usage) costs.
The only access charge is the R680 per month subscription (R800 for
business)
* Simultaneous Voice and Data
Telephone calls are still possible
while on the Internet, no business connection

ADSL is targeted at the small business and higher end of the
residential market that has a moderate volume of Internet traffic and
requires an always available service. That is what Telkom ADSL offers.
The service is not designed to offer bandwidth intensive
communications such as peer-to-peer applications (e.g. fasttrack,
gnutella, napster, kazaa, e-donkey etc.) for downloads, which
incidentally are the applications used by most of people who are
complaining about the service. The service is designed to offer
premium Internet surfing (HTTP), email (SMTP) and file transfer
protocol applications

The rollout of ADSL in South Africa has proceeded smoothly with the
service now available in the main metropolitan areas.

From the launch day, the Telkom ADSL access product has been limited
to a monthly 3GB cap. While we only implemented the cap much later,
it was always a condition of service.
The monthly 3 Giga Byte volume cap applies to all ADSL subscribers and
is enforced by all ISPs providing the service. It has also created
quite a bit of debate in the media but upon reflection it appears to
come from those users for whom ADSL is not the ideal solution for
their needs.
ADSL is a shared service; the more subscribers the slower the Internet
download speeds on the international link. That is why we carefully
balance the number of users versus available bandwidth. It is also a
key reason for capping. The 3 GB cap protects users from a small
minority of people who abuse the service and use it for purposes it
was not intended for. Capping ensures that most customers will enjoy
the true ADSL experience of fast Internet.
Coupled with this, the performance of international servers will also
affect download speeds. The fact that we are situated in South Africa
means that international bandwidth is purchased at a premium and not
unlimited.
On the International pipe Telkom's SAIX has prioritised surfing, email
and file transfer protocols. Bandwidth intensive protocols such as
peer-to-peer applications (e.g fasttrack, gntella, napster, kazaa,
e-donkey etc) are afforded a lower priority and as such will perform
worse than a standard dial-up under high international load
conditions. This has been implemented to provide the majority of ADSL
customers with fast Internet experience.
The volume capping and prioritisation of the international pipe is
done at the wholesale level to ensure that all ISP customers enjoy the
ADSL experience of fast always-available Internet.
SAIX is working on the introduction of a less shaped international
pipe that will be offered to ISP's to meet the needs of customers who
have high bandwidth applications. This will be at an additional
premium to the current service.
The 3 GByte cap is measured on total usage, both local and
international users who exceed the cap are redirected to a more
limited international pipe. This will have the result that these
users receive a slow international throughput.
Recent statistics show that very few customers reach their monthly
cap. ADSL users who require more than 3GB monthly can order a second
username and password from their ISP's providing them with an
additional 3GB per month.

To manage ADSL usage Telkom has for Telkom Prolog and Prolog Plus
users introduced a Usage Tracker with the option of receiving a daily
email to inform you of the usage over the past 24 hours. There are
also various graphic options.

Based on other feedback received Telkom has implemented a caching
server to increase international Internet access performance. HTTP
(Browsing), RTSP (Real Time Streaming Protocol) and MMS (Microsoft
Multimedia Streaming) are being cached currently. The cache will be
used automatically and no configuration is required.

__________________________________________


RPM
[email protected]
 
------------------- Quote -----------------------------------------
most of its nearly 10 000 customer base have no
problems with ADSL and in fact experience the real value that ADSL
brings, always available fast internet.
------------------ End Quote --------------------------------------

Was there a online survey to determine satisfaction ? Did I miss that or did nearly 10 000 users phone up to congratulate Telkom on its superb ADSL implementation ?

----------- Quote ----------------
Fast access with down loads at 512
---------- EndQuote --------------

?!? I have never experienced that even locally , fast yes but not THAT fast...have any of you guys ?

------------ Quote --------------------
ADSL is targeted at the small business and higher end of the
residential market that has a moderate volume of Internet traffic and
requires an always available service. That is what Telkom ADSL offers.
The service is not designed to offer bandwidth intensive
communications such as peer-to-peer applications (e.g. fasttrack,
gnutella, napster, kazaa, e-donkey etc.) for downloads, which
incidentally are the applications used by most of people who are
complaining about the service. The service is designed to offer
premium Internet surfing (HTTP), email (SMTP) and file transfer
protocol applications
-------------- EndQuote -------------------

This is the firstime I have seen or heard this lot, why is this not
mentioned at the Telkom site ? If I had heard this I would not of subscribed.

------------- Quote -------------------
On the International pipe Telkom's SAIX has prioritised surfing, email
and file transfer protocols. Bandwidth intensive protocols such as
peer-to-peer applications (e.g fasttrack, gntella, napster, kazaa,
e-donkey etc) are afforded a lower priority and as such will perform
worse than a standard dial-up under high international load
conditions. This has been implemented to provide the majority of ADSL
customers with fast Internet experience.
----------- EndQuote ------------------

Again why was this not on the Telkom site ?? I research what available information I could before subscribing. R 3300 initially is a lot of money to me.



Lot of this is news to me...really if I had this information before I subscribed I would of never subscribed and rather waited for ' the introduction of a less shaped international
pipe that will be offered to ISP's to meet the needs of customers who
have high bandwidth applications '.

Believe me or not I am not usually quick to complain, but this has got me down...really down [V]
 
Hi ASnogarD

Thanks for the great reply. It is absolutely ridiculous to claim that most users are satisfied. We all know from the Telkom Helpdesk that it is not the case. Even they are unhappy with the service. This is the only open forum about ADSL, and look at the response. I don’t see many users defending the service here. And for them implicating us as “kazaa users”, that is simply not on. I have an interview on SAFM tomorrow and these issues will be raised.

Thanks again,

RPM
[email protected]
 
I read this response from Telkom.

It creates the impression that they were less than honest with subscribers up to now in there sales&marketing processes.

I trust that this response will be the start of a new approach to ASDL.

A few requests to Telkom:

Please list on your ADSL pages somewhere easy to find the priorities to each service.

As a business user, I'm prepared to pay IF I GET WHAT I WAS PROMISED. Without complete knowledge of the limitations of a product (such as shaping) I can't make an informed choice. Telkom's poor product communication in general creates a risk everytime I work with Telkom - be it an addtional telephone line or a new switch board. I have to spend hours in getting the actual specs from them. It is available, you have to ask, and then get somebody to put it on paper, else you will not get the service promised.

I'm a business user, and I don't see mention of HTTPS (port 443) - important for e-commerce or ssh (port 22) which is important for managing remote servers.

Please keep us up to date - real time should be possible on the web - of the average amount of local bandwidth and international bandwidth set aside for ADSL subscribers. I can't image why Telkom won't share that with subscribers.

Lastly - get your attitude right. Many more ADSL subscribers are technically skilled and know what they are doing. Provide information we require in a suitable format. I nearly exploded when the helpdesk told me a few months ago I'm not allowed to send mail via SMTP!

I'm sure that a lot of the flack Telkom is currently getting - including my own frustrations - is due to Telkom overselling ADSL.
 
Nice one Telkom - I see they have changed a bit of their tune on the ADSL homepage http://www.adslspeedfreak.net/adsl/description.jsp

I recall at one stage - Superfast Gaming was one of the flashy pictures...

Personally, I do not download all sorts of crap - I try to play my games (which I import at great expense), surf a bit - normal downloads like windowsupdate and service packs and patches.

So now it is at last official that the traffic is shaped and new adopters will not get conned too much.

@RPM - Thanks for getting this site up m8, I do not think we would have started getting all this feedback if you did not do this

My hat off to you and let the next round begin
DH
 
What i find strange about the 3GB limit is: (Please correct me if I am wrong)

At the start of the month all of us have clean slate, i.e no capping.
We all surf the intl site happily and we all surf the local stuff happily.

Until some users start hitting their caps. This should let me to believe that the intl bandwidth on the links during those first days is optimally used, i.e 95% - 99%.

Is the service of the leased line users, i.e Diginet slowed down lessened by the ADSL service during the first couple of days?

No. Why? Beacuse we have one and it trundles along beautifully, well when some idiot doesn't take the corner up the road to quick and hit the blue box.

This is why I do not understand the ridiculous cap of 3GB.

Please forgive my language, but I am more a graph and drawing kind of guy.
 
herbs

I agree with you completely. At the start of the month I am able to do everything I wanted to do (surf , e-mail and Kazaa - local online is a new bonus) as long as I organised my usage according to traffic - ie use Kazaa from 00:00 till 6:30 - and I am happy, till the cap slams the door on me. After cap no int. browesing and no Kazaa.

BTW , can anyone remember if this lil' note was there on the adsl page before :

International traffic is shaped to ensure that bandwidth hungry applications such as peer-to-peer including Kazaa, Fasttrack, Napster & Pop3 etc. does not adversely affect other applications.

I know it wasn't because I researched ADSL for my own use and my Company. I would not have signed on if I had seen that note - lil' too late Telkom [:(!]
 
Why dont we guy getogether and sue them. They are not providing a service which they advertised. What disgusts me is that they are isolating their customers. That is not on!

I quote "The biggest bugbear is the limit of 3GB a month, but Telkom says this complaint comes from those users for whom ADSL is not the ideal solution"

Maybe telkom is not the right telecommunications provider to offer ADSL.

We should all demand a refund!


PS. What time is the interview on SAFM
 
Quote: "Telkom ADSL website

He will experience slower access speeds on the alternate international link, as he will then be sharing this link with all other customers who exceed the 3 Giga byte cap.

/Quote:

Hi all,

I firstly have a question:

Quote: Post by rpm: Posted - 08/07/2003 : 11:27:45

The 3 GB cap protects users from a small
minority of people who abuse the service and use it for purposes it
was not intended for.

/Quote:

And ...

Quote:

Recent statistics show that very few customers reach their monthly
cap.

/Quote

Now I don't really understand this. If the users that exceed their 3 GB cap are few (according to the statistics) and they are thrown onto another international pipe together, how come your international connection die completely. If my logic works correctly (I think it does), this would mean that this link should be faster than the original link, since less users are on this one. Unless this new link is a thin as a half a millimetre copper wire? Then only does it make sence. They don't mention this anywhere. Why don't they provide statistics?

Now for my real post...

I do not have a problem with the 3 GB cap (the above was just something I noted). I NEVER reach my cap. The first month I did, cause I wanted to see what it does after that, but never again have I reached it.

I only play games online, and do my trading. My total bandwidth for the month is less than 1 GB. Then add my brother to that, and that makes about 2 GB combined usage.

My problem is this...

I trade every day after work on international markets. I do not use a lot of bandwidth, however, I do need the low pings to these servers. I am a "model" of an ADSL user, as my bandwidth never even gets close to the cap, but still I cannot get this little bit of latency that I need for my 1 or 2 MB's per day. Why? You are not allowed to download a lot, which I can in a certain sence understand. But I am not allowed to "spend" the 3GB per month that is mine to download, on the things I want.

I have asked them to just lift the cap on these ports to this specific server (only 1 - not KazaaH or eDonkey or those) just a little bit, and that is not possible, unless a LOT of users requires that specific port to be opened.

This is crazy!

Does anyone know of somebody that I can phone to help me with this issue, as their call centre staff are completely incompetent.

Thanks
Firestar
 
Asnogar - that line is a recent addition, i actually went on to the site to check if the SUPERFAST is still advertised, the ADSL banner add on telkom frontpage has also vanished
 
Realised there is a few interesting conotations with this little sentence.

---------------------- Quote ------------------
ADSL has become a major discussion point in the media, driven by a few
customers who are dissatisfied with the service.
-------------------- EndQuote -----------------

Major discussion point in the media :) Sounds like we are making some noise hmmm ?
Few customers ? Since when would the media be so inerested if it were only a few ? A few can be safely annoyed if held up to a backdrop on many satisfied customers.
 
I cant believe these guys. They keep on with the same garbage. If interntational bandwidth is taking such strain then why do ISDN and Diginet subscribers never get limited or put on a slower link(We all know the answer to that). I just checked the Telkom site with my expensive diginet line and it seems the Super Fast was removed around the 29th of July. When did this site start??
 
Hi Chubs

We officially launched the site and forum on the 23rd of July. They are amazing as you say…keeping up with the same reply. To categorize us as a “small group” etc is just not acceptable. Lets see what tomorrow brings…

Regards,

RPM
[email protected]
 
Personally I am quite happy with Telkoms reply - I agree with te whole Kazaa thing. The only point i don't agree with is the 3GB Cap. I will be using ADSL very soon to connect to my corporate LAN and for that purpose it is going to be great. This is what I think ADSL is really intended for - the home-office user.
 
In light of this <b>NEW</b> information I would tend to agree with you douwg. However this information was not revealed when I subscribed to ADSL, if I had known this lot I would of not subscribed.

This is why I am complaining. The information that <b>WAS</b> available at the time (<i>mis</i>)lead me to believe it would be suitable for my needs.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by douwg</i>
<br />Personally I am quite happy with Telkoms reply - I agree with te whole Kazaa thing. The only point i don't agree with is the 3GB Cap. I will be using ADSL very soon to connect to my corporate LAN and for that purpose it is going to be great. This is what I think ADSL is really intended for - the home-office user.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
 
I completely agree with you AsnogarD. If I knew this before I subscribed I would never have gotten ADSL! I want my money back! Bastards.
 
The arrogance and ignorance of this guy is flabbergasting.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
most of its nearly 10 000 customer base have no
problems with ADSL
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Bull****. Counterclaim: most have problems e.g. downtimes, lousy performance, lousy helpdesk
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
* Access speed
Fast access with down loads at 512
kbps and uploads at 256 kbps.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Rubbish. It never EVER reaches that. At the absolute best of times (like 03AM) 75% of the speed. On average 25%-30% of that speed.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
...has a moderate volume of Internet traffic and
requires an always available service
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Define moderate - in my mind, if moderate is all I need, I don't need ADSL.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
The service is not designed to offer bandwidth intensive
communications such as peer-to-peer applications
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Fine, then make this abundantly clear and don't change the rules along the way. The only time this is acceptable, is if you rent out the modems. Then I can cancel at any time without incurring too much cost. If I cancel now, that modem of mine is a sunk cost.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
ADSL is a shared service; the more subscribers the slower the Internet
download speeds on the international link. That is why we carefully
balance the number of users versus available bandwidth
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
This statement is so incredibly stupid that I can't even find the words to respond. And I don't notice that they are carefully balancing anything. They just keep piling in new users without adjusting the international bandwidth.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
The 3 GB cap protects users from a small
minority of people who abuse the service and use it for purposes it
was not intended for.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Well, it's obviously not working and number 2 - the cap is not the primary issue here.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Bandwidth intensive protocols such as
peer-to-peer applications (e.g fasttrack, gntella, napster, kazaa,
e-donkey etc) are afforded a lower priority and as such will perform
worse than a standard dial-up under high international load
conditions
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Where is the logic in that? Is a 3KB/s Kazaa download through a dial-up less of a problem for your intl bandwidht than the same thing on an ADSL?
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
both local and international users who exceed the cap are redirected to a more limited international pipe.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Ok, here we go again. This is an absolute ****ing lie!!!!!!!!!
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Recent statistics show that very few customers reach their monthly
cap
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I only trust statistics that I manipulated myself.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
The cache will be used automatically and no configuration is required.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
But without a doubt, you are adding my cache data to my volume counter.

RPM, who did this reply go to - is it a press release or something???
 
Hi Paf

This reply was send to me and was also published in the media as Telkom’s response to our action. I have been contacted by Beeld and SAFM to which Telkom already replied. SAFM will contact me between 11 am and 12 am tomorrow. I will do my best to raise all these issues.

Regards,

RPM
[email protected]
 
paf

Not to ITWEB...the response there is different..for 1 it does not mention the network shaping/port pioritiseing at all.


EDIT

BTW : Heres a link to Telkoms response at Telkoms site
http://www.telkom.co.za/servlet/ClickManager2?currentFile=/index.jsp&nextFile=/news/article_608.jsp&clickSource=LINK&lastUpdate=2003/8/7
 
Hi RPM
I must commend you once again for the job you're doing here. Even if in the end nothing changes, you have my greatest respect for having started this initiative and for having the perseverence to take it this far already. I'd say that's quite an achievement in only 2 weeks.
Well done.
3 cheers
 
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