Cape Times Letter

Strobemeister

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Here's an interesting letter from Today's paper. Not sure i can legally reproduce it here. If i can't, one of the admins can just delete it.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">'Ferrari of internet connections' has an old Beetle engine under the bonnet
December 17, 2003

The sale of asymmetric digital subscriber line (ADSL) in this country is clearly based on misrepresentation.

Telkom sells the service as a broadband offering with speeds of 512k (downstream) and 256k (upstream).

It doesn't guarantee the speed issue. however, inherent in the use of the word "broadband" is a speed-delivery
implication.

What it doesn't tell you at the time of selling you the "Ferrari of internet connections" is that you are not allowed to open the bonnet. the reason is there's an old beetle engine in there.

We all know that ADSL is supposed to be South Africa's answer to broadband connectivity. Sure, you may get reasonable connect speeds browsing some local cached sites.

but the reality is if you try during peak South African working hours to transfer any large file from overseas, you'll be lucky to get even a quarter of the speed advertised by Telkom.

So where's the broadband? I have sent visual traces of connects to friends who work in ADSL support overseas, showing speeds and routing data from SA to popular US and UK sites.

the figures are "so bad they are laughable" came the responses from the overseas ADSL staff. "you pay R1 100 per month for this service in SA - you must be kidding!" came another.

Basically Telkom is ripping us off - a second-rate service with a good dose of pseudo-government inefficiency and red tape thrown in.

Telkom ADSL blocks the use of traces. the reason stated is because it is using up too much bandwidth - a totally ridiculous comment.

The real reason is because any savvy user would immediately be able to see the horrendous situation with regards to ADSL traffic routing in this country.


When asked about network load balancing for ADSL traffic, Telkom ADSL support staff basically struggle to respond with more than a few grunts.

All ADSL traffic is lumped into the same pool as the entire Saix dial-up population. That means the pipe down, which all dial-up traffic passes on the Telkom network, has now had to swallow up to three times as much demand.

It's ludicrous, and only Telkom without any competition could get away with it. it's not going to get better but far worse, with more unsuspecting ADSL users buying into this highly flawed state of affairs.

So what happened to truth in advertising? Surely Telkom and other down-the-line resellers of this service should be forced to state the facts before tying unsuspecting subscribers up in contracts.

One of the most annoying and unpublished facts is that all international ADSL traffic passes through one gateway in London: london-dir-telecity-pos-8-0-0.telkom-ipnet.co.za
The fact that this creates a massive bottleneck on all international traffic seems not to concern Telkom. So if you are connecting to the US or Japan, it's all via one point in London.

You just have to love that kind of logic (of course Telkom doesn't want you to know this, hence it blocks the use of traces on the ADSL network).

I think it's time that the advertising standards authority (ASA) gets involved. Surely Telkom shouldn't be allowed to use the term "broadband" when the service it is actively selling is about as close to broadband as my 56K modem is.

In my opinion, it's clearly misrepresentation.


Cape Town<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">


Telkom - South Africa's Handbrake to progress.
 
Very well said!

Thanks for posting Strobemeister.


----------------
United we stand!
----------------
 
It doesn't guarantee the speed issue. however, inherent in the use of the word "broadband" is a speed-delivery
implication <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I can not guarantee the full payment of my Monthly bill for R1000. I can only give R200. I wonder how will telkom respond to that. Will cut you of for life, court, 10H call to help desk, death penalty
In busyness thy say that the customer is always right which is a load of bullS
Cheers

I say Lets burn them
 
It would be quite amusing if we all short paid Telkom and told them our payment was a best effort.


----------------
United we stand!
----------------
 
great ariticle, brought about some points I was not aware of... lol. It just gets better.

I must be frank, I am up most nights and it seems that at 3am in the morning I actually get great speeds of around 54k per second through 'FreshDownload'. During the day it's not great but better than my dial-up, actually a lot better. I don't consider it as bad as this article, which is ironic for anyone reading my previous posts and moans. All I would like to see is the price reduction to something REASONABLE (around half) and the removal of the limit and port blocking, but then that's what most want so I'm hardly out with the cutting edge ideas! Adios.

=====================
Fusion.01 : Internet Design & Production
www.fusion01.com
=====================
 
FORGOT TO MENTION IT'S GREAT THAT THIS IS IN THE PAPER - WE NEED THIS TO CIRCULATE. THANKS FOR POSTING ON THE SITE AND TO THE WRITER - MY HONEST APPLAUSE TO YOU SIR.

=====================
Fusion.01 : Internet Design & Production
www.fusion01.com
=====================
 
I'll ignore the minor technical flaws in the complaint, well writen letter, this is the kind of 'action' that needs to be persued.

<hr noshade size="1">
"Since light travels faster than sound, people appear bright until you hear them speak."

NetLink Research
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by VQuest</i>
<br />It would be quite amusing if we all short paid Telkom and told them our payment was a best effort.


----------------
United we stand!
----------------
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Bwahahahahaha!! That just made my day! Thanks man!

Juice

---------------------------------------
Telkom. Our anchor to the third world.
---------------------------------------
 
brillaint , i think we SHOULD short pay them bastards!!! :-) ..lol



caio

South Africa / Poland / UK
 
Ja, its amazing the coverage you get when you get printed in a major paper. A number of people have actually mentioned the article to me over the last week or so, as they know i'm always ranting on about the quality of internet in this country etc etc...

Telkom - South Africa's Handbrake to progress.
 
directed at author of article, allbeit a bit pointless on this forum

&lt;snip&gt;
Telkom ADSL blocks the use of traces. the reason stated is because it is using up too much bandwidth - a totally ridiculous comment.

The real reason is because any savvy user would immediately be able to see the horrendous situation with regards to ADSL traffic routing in this country.
&lt;/snip&gt;

actually, the "blocking" has nothing to do with traceroute. windows tracert client uses 92 byte icmp packets, which happens to be the same size packet generated by nachi/welchia and it's friends. because of the large number of infected adsl users, and the bandwidth/rate of packets per second available to them, this kills the network. blame ms for crap software, and your fellow lusers for not patching timeously/running anti-virus software. as much as i might dislike saix/telkom, i don't think you can lay the blame with them. these same steps have been taken on _many_ overseas networks.

&lt;snip&gt;
When asked about network load balancing for ADSL traffic, Telkom ADSL support staff basically struggle to respond with more than a few grunts.
&lt;/snip&gt;

as someone who's worked in the industry for a handful of years, I'm not sure what "network load balancing" is supposed to be, or how it's supposed to help the end user. anyone else know what the author is talking about?

&lt;snip&gt;
All ADSL traffic is lumped into the same pool as the entire Saix dial-up population. That means the pipe down, which all dial-up traffic passes on the Telkom network, has now had to swallow up to three times as much demand.
&lt;snip&gt;

this statement is just silly. most networks don't run tiered layers for different types of traffic. I don't see what the point of having a seperate physical pipe would be for the various products. anyway, an adsl user will generally have more "pull" than any dialup, and probably most corporate clients running at low speeds.

&lt;snip&gt;
It's ludicrous, and only Telkom without any competition could get away with it. it's not going to get better but far worse, with more unsuspecting ADSL users buying into this highly flawed state of affairs.
&lt;/snip&gt;

while i agree wholeheartedly with this sentiment, i think the guy has no idea what his arguments are supposed to be.

&lt;snip&gt;
One of the most annoying and unpublished facts is that all international ADSL traffic passes through one gateway in London: london-dir-telecity-pos-8-0-0.telkom-ipnet.co.za
The fact that this creates a massive bottleneck on all international traffic seems not to concern Telkom. So if you are connecting to the US or Japan, it's all via one point in London.
&lt;snip&gt;

the latency between the .us and the .uk is usually negligable.

&lt;snip&gt;
In my opinion, it's clearly misrepresentation.
&lt;/snip&gt;

as crappy as the product might be, Telkom state clearly that there's a cap. no network provider in za that i know of, states in the contract how they'll route your traffic. the product is sold with a cap. the fact that it's unusable internationally once the cap is reached seems logical to me. people should think before they buy, and not blame the company selling the product, but rather the product itself. if you can't afford something, don't expect to get it for half the price and still perform...
 
I semi-agree with your conclusions. I for one find it difficult to understand why anyone would pay a ridiculous price for this utterly ridiculous "service". The only exceptions are those that are forced to use it given no alternative. In a situation where there is competition one would usually not waste energy blaming the company, they would simply switch to another service provider. Unfortunately in SA this isn't possible as Telkom has a monopoly on ADSL.

While the author may not be 100% correct in his assertions I believe he is just sharing the sentiment of informed users, that SA is simply not receiving the full benefit of ADSL. Why provide a service if you are not willing to support it 100%? It would have been kinder to just not introduce ADSL at all. At this stage Telkom deserve any negative publicity they receive.
 
I think Fingers is a employed by Telkom.

One ? for you Fingers would you say that you are happy with your ADSl
from Telkom dude.


Pay a thousand bucks for what to download 54Kb/s at 3 in the morning.
Come on man[V][V][V]
I hope Sentech give Telkom the biggest carrot.


Nuf SAid[}:)]

If Sex is a pain in the Arse you doing it WRONG!
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Whoop_Ass</i>
<br />I think Fingers is a employed by Telkom.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Yes fingles gives Telkom a roughride every night before bed. Dont post such /arb drivel, Whoop_Ass. Especially when you dont actually know what you're talking about.

He is merely pointing out that a majority of the whiners - those who just sit here bitching and moaning - are nothing more than malcontents and that they should catch a wakeup. You're not going to get anywhere with Telkom by throwing tantrums. So far Telkom have done absolutely nothing that is illegal. The "mission" is in fact to pressurise Telkom to IMPROVE the service that we as consumers WILLINGLY pay for.

Im having a quarter-life crisis.

Celery
 
fingers is quite correct in everything he's said.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by [email protected]</i>
actually, the "blocking" has nothing to do with traceroute. windows tracert client uses 92 byte icmp packets, which happens to be the same size packet generated by nachi/welchia and it's friends. because of the large number of infected adsl users, and the bandwidth/rate of packets per second available to them, this kills the network. blame ms for crap software, and your fellow lusers for not patching timeously/running anti-virus software. as much as i might dislike saix/telkom, i don't think you can lay the blame with them. these same steps have been taken on _many_ overseas networks.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Traces over ADSL:

traceroute to iafrica.com (196.31.4.2), 64 hops max, 44 byte packets
1 wblv-224-01.telkomadsl.co.za (165.165.224.1) 11.067 ms 10.895 ms 10.514 ms
2 wblv-ip-er-1-fe-11-1-0.telkom-ipnet.co.za (196.43.10.138) 10.563 ms 11.140 ms 11.188 ms
3 rrba-ip-er-1-fe-3-0-1.telkom-ipnet.co.za (196.43.10.150) 59.810 ms 59.772 ms 77.480 ms
4 atm6-0sub1.br1.jnb6.alter.net (196.31.39.54) 61.798 ms 63.110 ms 74.652 ms
5 srp5-0-0.cr5.jnb6.alter.net (196.30.156.9) 85.714 ms 101.972 ms 86.695 ms
6 atm1-1-0sub1.cr2.cpt1.alter.net (196.31.39.37) 84.259 ms 86.407 ms 83.738 ms
7 srp1-0-0.gw1.cpt1.alter.net (196.31.249.66) 88.837 ms 128.800 ms 166.660 ms
etc.

traceroute to www2.microsoft.akadns.net (207.46.156.252), 64 hops max, 44 byte packets
1 wblv-224-01.telkomadsl.co.za (165.165.224.1) 11.219 ms 9.923 ms 10.448 ms
2 wblv-ip-er-1-fe-11-1-0.telkom-ipnet.co.za (196.43.10.138) 10.362 ms 10.648 ms 10.799 ms
3 london-dir-telecity-pos-8-0-0.telkom-ipnet.co.za (196.43.9.50) 333.746 ms 349.583 ms 338.305 ms
4 pos2-1.cr02.ldn01.pccwbtn.net (63.218.52.17) 338.048 ms 305.492 ms 315.208 ms
5 pos1-1.cr02.ash01.pccwbtn.net (63.216.0.38) 395.101 ms 410.450 ms 410.381 ms
6 g1-1.edge1.ash1.us.msn.net (206.223.115.17) 404.321 ms 342.823 ms 355.426 ms
7 gig4-0.core1.ash1.us.msn.net (207.46.34.13) 422.217 ms 456.719 ms 445.650 ms
etc.

What blocking?

As for the rest said, I have nothing to add. The article has a lot of technical misconceptions, but the overall idea behind it is valid - compared to what US and UK consumers get, Telkom ADSL is overpriced and slow.

But I'd be very hesitent to jump up and say dialup is any better.


Regards,
Aragon
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Strobemeister</i>
<br />Here's an interesting letter from Today's paper. Not sure i can legally reproduce it here. If i can't, one of the admins can just delete it.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">'Ferrari of internet connections' has an old Beetle engine under the bonnet
December 17, 2003

The sale of asymmetric digital subscriber line (ADSL) in this country is clearly based on misrepresentation.

Telkom sells the service as a broadband offering with speeds of 512k (downstream) and 256k (upstream).

It doesn't guarantee the speed issue. however, inherent in the use of the word "broadband" is a speed-delivery
implication.

What it doesn't tell you at the time of selling you the "Ferrari of internet connections" is that you are not allowed to open the bonnet. the reason is there's an old beetle engine in there.

We all know that ADSL is supposed to be South Africa's answer to broadband connectivity. Sure, you may get reasonable connect speeds browsing some local cached sites.

but the reality is if you try during peak South African working hours to transfer any large file from overseas, you'll be lucky to get even a quarter of the speed advertised by Telkom.

So where's the broadband? I have sent visual traces of connects to friends who work in ADSL support overseas, showing speeds and routing data from SA to popular US and UK sites.

the figures are "so bad they are laughable" came the responses from the overseas ADSL staff. "you pay R1 100 per month for this service in SA - you must be kidding!" came another.

Basically Telkom is ripping us off - a second-rate service with a good dose of pseudo-government inefficiency and red tape thrown in.

Telkom ADSL blocks the use of traces. the reason stated is because it is using up too much bandwidth - a totally ridiculous comment.

The real reason is because any savvy user would immediately be able to see the horrendous situation with regards to ADSL traffic routing in this country.


When asked about network load balancing for ADSL traffic, Telkom ADSL support staff basically struggle to respond with more than a few grunts.

All ADSL traffic is lumped into the same pool as the entire Saix dial-up population. That means the pipe down, which all dial-up traffic passes on the Telkom network, has now had to swallow up to three times as much demand.

It's ludicrous, and only Telkom without any competition could get away with it. it's not going to get better but far worse, with more unsuspecting ADSL users buying into this highly flawed state of affairs.

So what happened to truth in advertising? Surely Telkom and other down-the-line resellers of this service should be forced to state the facts before tying unsuspecting subscribers up in contracts.

One of the most annoying and unpublished facts is that all international ADSL traffic passes through one gateway in London: london-dir-telecity-pos-8-0-0.telkom-ipnet.co.za
The fact that this creates a massive bottleneck on all international traffic seems not to concern Telkom. So if you are connecting to the US or Japan, it's all via one point in London.

You just have to love that kind of logic (of course Telkom doesn't want you to know this, hence it blocks the use of traces on the ADSL network).

I think it's time that the advertising standards authority (ASA) gets involved. Surely Telkom shouldn't be allowed to use the term "broadband" when the service it is actively selling is about as close to broadband as my 56K modem is.

In my opinion, it's clearly misrepresentation.


Cape Town<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">


Telkom - South Africa's Handbrake to progress.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

One other point that could be taken up with the Advertising Standards Autority is the following opinions I have about advertising where a Monopoly is concerned.
1. A monopoly the size of telkom should have severe Advertising restrictions. Eg. Why would anyone want to advertise when its a monopoly. Perhaps to squeeze a few more cents out of the already overtaxed consumers.
2. Advertising restricted to new product launches etc.

Take this TV add that was doing the rounds a couple of years ago. THe PPC Cement advert on Van Stadens River Bridge. Showing the Old and the New Bridge all built with PPC Cement. It not like anyone has had a choice in the matter of what brand of cement they want to use.
 
I have a hosting box in Miami, and doing downloads from there I get 300 or 400k sec downloads speeds depending on what site I download from. This seriously makes me think I am living in the wrong country!
 
I hear how SA is soooo technologically advanced, but peeps don't realise that it comes at a huge price. So then, how good is it really, if we have to cough up 2-4 times the international average to get with the rest of the world?[xx(]
Brings me back to a previous comment I made.. SA is a great place, provided you have the bucks and are willing to spend it to buy your way out of all the bad things (crime, taxes, high technology costs etc.)
 
Ok not trying to chirp any one off here, but I think A LOT OF PEOPLE have the "Grass is always greener on the other side" syndrome. You serriously cannot say SA is expensive just by looking at how much we pay for a BW, thats not very reasonable. Sure fine you might get cheap ADSL in other countries for 1/10 of the price and 2x the speed, so what it doesn't mean I would want to move there, you have to look at the whole picture. I mean you might have am amazing I-net connection but you live in a ****ty house drive a ****ty car and work twice as hard. For me thats not really a good trade but hey. Sure there might be some benifits in our countries, and I have friends that have emmgrated, sure they might have cheap fast BB but hell I would not trade with them for anything.

Don't get me wrong I am all for Chirping Telkom, everyday of the week and twice on Sundays, but that sure doesn't mean I want to go anywhere else otherwise I wouldn't give a **** now would I ?

P.S As for the comment about needing money to live in South Africa (sorry I don't mean to pick on you) but you need money to live anywhere, I am sure you have all seen "John.Q" and that is not a far shot from the truth.
 
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