Lightning and Telkom's network

kaspaas

Expert Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2003
Messages
3,732
Reaction score
6
Location
Home: Wapadrant Office: Lyttelton
Hi,

I experienced a few "drops" of a few minutes each between myself (Pretoria) and some local servers.

From the traceroutes it appears as if the break was a Telkom Router.

It was claimed that it was due to very bad weather and that if there is a real bad lightning strike, Telkom needs to reboot some routers.

Does anybody know more about this?

I tend to disbelief all support helpdesks until I get confirmation of what they said elsewhere :-(

Thanks
 
My line goes "bos" when there's a storm. On that note, where can I find a decent lightning protector?
 
Fyre said:
...where can I find a decent lightning protector?
If you haven't already got a UPS then go gettaUPS that has an IN & OUT for your telephone line. I'm in a HIGH lightning strike zone, and I'm using two Mustek/Mecer branded UPS', they haven't failed me yet, but I suppose they're jinxed now
 
The only lightning protectors that seem to pretend to work are the ones that run on a power source. i.e. They draw power and use power to arrest the surge. However, some surge power does still get through.
I've got an old Mecer UPS who's battery is completely useless, but it has the line plugs. I plug the telephon line into there, and then I've got another arrester that works like a fuse. Then, the tel line runs into an APC ups's tel line plugs, and then into the splitter/filter.
So far so good, but i've had to replace the "fuse" twice this year already, so the Mercer thing may not be working, but the splitter/filter has not been damaged, so the APC ups is probably doing all the hard work.
Your best bet is to phone your insurance company and ensure that they cover acts of nature in the form of lightning.
Anyways - it's almost impossible to stop that amount of current in a direct hit. Assume that you will loose everything, and back the stuff up.
 
I'm using the SOHO protectors from Horizon-Atlantic for a number of years now in Centurion. We have our bit of lightning, but not as bad as Roodepoort.

The lightning split a tree outside the offices, but I had no damage.

I've spoken to the manufacturers in Silverton, Pretoria and they seem to be quite knowledgeable on this subject.
 
Howzit!

I have trip switches, surge protectors, general heart failure, and resuscitation equipment between my power outlet and my pc that can stretch from here to Timbuktu! A UPS, newly fitted electric cabling for the house and other gadgetry that can make Eskom head office look like it is from the stone age are just some of the things that provide some sort of “security” against lightning and power surges. Belkin SURGEMASTER is a very good product and the new line is currently out! I still prefer to separate the ADSL equipment from the network during electric storms…

Cheers
Ant
PS Is it just me, or do we love our computers too much?????
 
Hmmm... I might have felt a little too over-confident in thinking that staying in a complex might alleviate any lightning surges. Will have to invest in a decent protector soon. And seeing as I'm staying in Weltevredenpark with <sarcasm> the most stable power supply in the world </sarcasm> I might just go the UPS route.

Thanks for the input!
 
Can anyone recommend a protector for CAT5 cable? I got struck there, luckily not too much damage....yet..
 
Poweroff

Your best bet is to turn off the computers and modem when the lightining is close by and unplug from the socket outlet.

There is no arrestor that will stop a strike close by or worse a direct hit.
 
Swazi said:
Your best bet is to turn off the computers and modem when the lightining is close by and unplug from the socket outlet.
It is majorly inconvenient to unplug everything before you go out to work or experience life away from your PC(s), you very well may not be around to unplug everything when there is an unprecitable lightning storm.

I had a direct lightning strike on 12th October (if memory serves), there was NO WARNING (no thunder in the distance), it was the very 1st lightning strike of the evening (in my area), and I was using my PC at the time. There was no warning or time to unplug everything.

That strike knocked a huge junk out of the perimeter wall where it struck, it killed the electric fence energiser (not the first time either), it tripped the main circuit breaker, and the static in the air caused the PC monitors to go on a psychedelic LSD trip, no suprise that the sound was deafening, and the flash was blinding.

Like Antowan, I also have a multi-plug surge-protector (Belkin SurgeMasterII which I brought back from the UK), I have UPSs (could do with a higher VA rating UPS for printers, fax, scanner etc - which are are fed by the Belkin SurgeMasterII).

You could argue that there would've been more damage if lightning had directly hit the telkom line, or the electricity meter box, or the house, and you would be correct.

The point is, afford your equipment some protection (better than nothing)- go gettaUPS.
 
Up to now I have been lucky. The strike that I had wasn't major, but I need to do some work on that. My biggest problem is also that the worst lightning always comes when I am not @ home, otherwise I usually unplug some of the equipment.
 
lightning and electrical surge protection

It saddens me that there's all this mystery around internal lightning and electrical surge protection devices/equipment despite there being IEC standards (that have been adopted by the SABS) and are applicable around the world!

The blame for consumer mis-/dis-information must lie squarely on the shoulders of the lightning and surge arrester manufacturers who have taken a strategic commercial decision to focus the marketing of their cutting-edge (and hence HIGHLY EFFECTIVE!!!) lightning and surge arresters (arrestor, if u speak american!) on the industrial and commercial customer, to the absolute exclusion of us domestic users!!!!!!!!!!!!! So these reliable & affordable products (guaranteed against failure for up to 10 years, by the leading manufacturers!!!) are used by the likes of ESKOM, TELKOM, ACSA, SENTECH, HOSPITALS, AIRPORTS, SABC, ETC, ETC but we householders are blissfully unaware of their existence!

Incidentally the world's 1st surge arrester was released by DEHN (after considerable R&D, which continues to this day!) in 1954, so it's disappointing to hear of your data losses and electronic equipment damage over 5 decades later........ www.dehn.de if anyone's interested

Important point about physical electrical/electronic equipment damage/data loss is that it is normally due to non-lightning-induced electrical surges rather than surges arising from direct lightning strikes or lightning-induced surges! Lightning intensity and occurrence increases the closer one is to the equator (eg. Uganda which has a site listed in the Guinness book of records as having the highest lightning flash-density in the world) and the higher one's altitude (which explains why the occurrence of lightning is higher in Gauteng, than in Cape Town, which means that it is riskier NOT to use a proper surge arrester in Gauteng than in Cape Town!)

these non-lightning-induced electrical surges routinely arise in conducting cables/circuits as a direct result of utility power company (ESKOM, in our case) generator-switching, power-shedding & similar activities from time-to-time......

here are some facts and pointers related to internal lightning protection at household-level:

INTERNAL Lightning Protection

How can you protect your house?

You need three components to fully protect your family, your house, and your electrical equipment:

External lightning protection protects you against direct lightning strikes which may set your house on fire.
Tip:have the external lightning protection installed, that way lightning is safely conducted to the ground.

Internal lightning protection protects against damage caused by indirect lightning strikes.
Tip: have the internal lightning protection installed. It protects against surges caused by indirect lightning strikes.

Direct protection of electrical equipment protects computer, TV set etc.
Tip: protect your electrical equipment like telephone, fax, ISDN, TV set, computer etc.
What about watching TV during a thunderstorm?
Provided the house is fully protected and the electrical equipment is protected (e.g. with TV-protectors) you can listen to the radio or watch TV without any risk.
... being on the telephone?
If your telephone is correctly connected with the equipotential bonding bar and protected by fax- or ISDN-protector there is nearly no risk when using the phone during a thunderstorm.
... taking a bath or shower?
Taking a shower or a bath during a thunderstorm is dangerous if the metal mains are not connected correctly with the equipotential bonding bar.
... working at the computer?
Computers are very sensitive machines.They should be protected against surges caused by nearby strikess by means of special protection devices.
If your house is fully protected with external and internal lightning protection you may work at the computer or surf the internet without any risk.

So, where does one get the SAME affordable, but proven, lightning & surge arrester protection devices that are used by commerce and industry worldwide and especially here in SA? well, it's definitely NOT to be found at your local hardware store/electrical wholesaler or Incredible Connection, In fact IF they, or GAME/DION for that matter do sell any lightning/surge arrester products these are normally the mickey-mouse classIII lightning/surge arresters that have as much chance of themselves surviving lightning and other surges (let alone protecting yr vital equipment/data) as a maltese poodle has of felling a burly intruder!

In short, 1) your home needs to have proper external earthing/lightning protection (in compliance with SABS NATIONAL codes AND municipal building regulations);
2) next everything (electrics, plumbing, telephone, satellite, TV-aerial, etc, etc!!!) MUST be properly earthed (equipotentially bonded) to the COMMON earth-bar that spans your home
3) you need a classII surge arrester fitted to your distribution box/es (to every DB, if more than 1!) and
4) every plug must have an earth wire (GREEN!!!) connected NOT JUST brown (live) and blue (neutral)
5) FINALLY, a classIII lightning/surge arrester MUST be fitted to protect ALL sensitive equipment such as computers, microwave ovens, intercoms, pool pumps, radios, tv's, satellite decoders, etc, etc (DON't make the mistake of covering the power supply, and forgetting the data-protection arrester for TV-aerial/satellite antenna/telephone/adsl/etc connections) - THERE ARE RELIABLE, GUARANTEED DEVICES FOR ALL OF THESE!!!!!

on the issue of UPS, note that these are essential IF you desire/NEED the benefit and are prepared to accept the associated expense of an uninterrupted power supply, but then yr UPS too needs to be properly earthed, and itself protected from lightning/surge with a classIII surge arrester that sits downstream of a classII-DB-mounted surge arrester, ALL within the realms of a PROPERLY EARTHED (equipotentially bonded) home environment!!!!

UPS ON ITS OWN IS NOT A LIGHTNING/SURGE ARRESTER, NEITHER IS A CIRCUIT-BREAKER OR A FUSE!!!! UPS is just that, a UPS! so too with a fuse and a circuit-breaker, they are what they are named!

I haven't mentioned CLASS I surge arresters cos these are relatively expensive (R000's, as opposed to R00's for class II and class I surge arrestors) as CLASS I surge arresters are engineered to withstand DIRECT LIGHTNING STRIKES and are used mainly by nuclear & other power stations, hospitals, civil aviation, telcos, broadcasters, avaiation, civil and military facilities, etc, etc - where equipment is "mission-critical" and service-delivery is generally in the public-interest..... however at a cost of approx. R10,000 it is NOT inconceivable that any corporate or domestic user might decide to install a class I arrester at the meter-box (utility-interface) on their property to provide absolute protection, in addition to the class II arresters on every downstream DB and additional class III's indicidually at every downstream piece of equipment that requires/deserves surge protection (remember, BOTH power & data-lines!!!)

try browsing www.surgetek.co.za for more info

I HOPE THAT THIS IS HELPFUL IN ERADICATING LOSS/DAMAGE DUE TO LIGHTNING AND ROUTINE ELECTRICAL SURGES!!!!!

THOR
 
thor said:
2) next everything (electrics, plumbing, telephone, satellite, TV-aerial, etc, etc!!!) MUST be properly earthed (equipotentially bonded) to the COMMON earth-bar that spans your home
4) every plug must have an earth wire (GREEN!!!) connected NOT JUST brown (live) and blue (neutral)

You do realise that 99% of devices nowadays are electrically "isolated" and don't even HAVE an earth wire ?

DSTV Decoders, VCRs, Amplifiers, router power supplies, all of these and more are not capable of being earthed. Having all your devices earthed isn't the best advice to be giving anyone in terms of being "protected" from lightning. In fact, a high enough surge running through your earthed line can cause enough induction to blow sensitive equipment that is earthed, whereas they might have been just fine left unearthed.
 
Surge protection of sensitive electronic equipment starts with PROPER earthing

Lightning, Surge Protection and Earthing of Electrical & Electronic Systems in Industrial Networks



Electrical Engineering Books Australia
Few topics generate as much controversy and argument as that of Lightning and Surge Protection of electrical and electronic systems.

Poor practices in Earthing and incorrect application and selection of Lightning and Surge protection devices can be the cause of continual and intermittent difficult-to-diagnose problems in a facility, often resulting in lost production and equipment failure. This workshop looks at these issues from a fresh yet practical perspective and enables you to reduce expensive down time on your plant and equipment to a minimum by correct application of these principles.

Download PDF Table of Contents :


Lightning, Surge Protection and Earthing
(44 Kb) -
http://www.idc-online.com/pdf/books/electrical/lightniing_surge_protection_toc.pdf

You will learn :


Select and apply an appropriate lightning dissipation system
Understand how ground electrodes work and their role in preventing lightning and surges from damaging equipment
List the types of systems that cannot be grounded
Describe what systems can be operated ungrounded
Correctly select and apply surge protection appropriate to the type of equipment being protected
Apply practical knowledge of surge and transient protection
Troubleshoot and fix Earthing and surge problems
Design, install and test an effective Earthing system for electronic equipment
Understand lightning and how to minimise its impact on your facility
Protect sensitive equipment from lightning

There's NO shortcuts to achieving an acceptable level of internal lightning & surge protection....

GOOD LUCK!

Thor
 
lightning protection "guru"

btw Paul van As is an approachable lightning protection expert in South Africa. He can be contacted at [email protected] and his expertise is relied upon by the likes of Telkom, Sentech, ACSA, ATNS, SANDF, ESKOM, SPOORNET, ANGLO's mines, etc.

His passion for his field is infectious and besides being able to immediately match your domestic/commercial/industrial need for lightning/surge protection with the most cost-effective solution, available from any supplier in the marketplace, he has the wealth of experience (over 22yrs!) at his disposal to anecdotally share stories of which SPD's work and which don't.....
 
EARTHING/INSULATION against electrical shock vs. electrical surge protection

Earthing / Insulation -

Class I equipment includes not only insulation of live parts but an earth connection via the flexiblecord and power outlet to accessible conductive parts. The accessible parts will not become live if the basic insulation fails. However, the disadvantage of Class I equipment is that an electric shock can still occur if a person forms a connection between live and earthed components.

Class II (double insulated) equipment does not have an earth connection as in Class I equipment but relies on double or reinforced insulation for protection

LIGHTNING & NON-LIGHTNING-INDUCED SURGES -
WITH REGARDS TO ELECTRICAL SURGES, EVEN CLASS II ELECTRICAL EQUIPMENT THAT ARE "DOUBLE INSULATED" (HAVING NO EARTH WIRE!) REQUIRE SURGE PROTECTION DEVICES (SPD's) TO PROTECT THEM FROM SUSTAINED OVER-VOLTAGE CONDITIONS - BOTH LIGHTNING & NON-LIGHTNING-INDUCED....

The majority of electronic equipment can easily withstand brief transient over-voltages in the 1,500 V to 2,000 V range without damage or degradation. Therefore, surge suppression is a form of insurance against a rare but OFTEN destructive event. High-voltage transients are most likely to arrive on incoming utility power lines caused by indirect lightning strikes or neighbours who use heavy industrial equipment.

Placing the surge arrester at the power entry panel (CLASS I SPD at the external utility meter-box; AND/OR PREFERABLY a CLASS II SPD/SPD's within indoor electrical distribution box/es) is not only good common sense, but it also has the important benefit of eliminating high transient voltages in the building's ground wiring during transient events.

In the absence of a surge arrester/s at the entry panel, any arrester on a branch circuit outlet may produce very high transient voltages between various grounds within the facility/home. If signal or data-interface cables link equipment connected to these grounds, interfaces may be damaged or destroyed.

For the same reason, any other lines/"electrical circuits" that come from the outside world (telephone lines, CCTV, other TV/satellite antennas or even outdoor loudspeakers/intercoms) should have surge arresters to earth ground (preferably the same one as used at the power entrance) to prevent high surge currents from flowing into the building's safety ground wiring. If surge suppression is necessary at an outlet, consider a series-mode arrester, which does not dump high transient currents into the safety ground wiring.

UPS -
Most equipment can also cope with sags or swells, as long as they do not last too long. UPS IS NOT A SURGE ARRESTER!!! In-fact Power quality people use the term "ride-through" to describe the ability of equipment to operate properly during a momentary period of low line voltage. Equipment manufacturers sometimes call it "hold-up" time, and a typical specification might be 20 ms. An uninterruptable power supply (UPS) is often used to increase ride-through time for critical equipment, such as computers. A UPS relies on a battery with enough energy to supply power for some specified time. A UPS or voltage regulator may be required to cope with swells, but they are a relatively rare problem. Obviously, a UPS or back-up generator of some kind must be used for extended outages, but an UPS device DOES NOT provide an acceptable-level of surge protection in the event of exposure to high/sustained electrical surges.....
 
Nice detail Thor!

One detail from your text that is particularly important is equipotential bonding......all to often this is ignored resulting in frequent transient overvoltage damage

If your telephone is correctly connected with the equipotential bonding bar and protected by fax- or ISDN-protector there is nearly no risk when using the phone during a thunderstorm

I have learned from experience that the micky mouse surge protection is usually too slow or only protects once (with no indication of protection failure). I have used Clearline products to great effect, and they sometime change the units free of charge should they incur damage:)
 
Nice detail Thor!

One detail from your text that is particularly important is equipotential bonding......all to often this is ignored resulting in frequent transient overvoltage damage



I have learned from experience that the micky mouse surge protection is usually too slow or only protects once (with no indication of protection failure). I have used Clearline products to great effect, and they sometime change the units free of charge should they incur damage:)

ALWAYS REMEBER Lightning can be very dangerous and obtain millions of volts (never use a telephone during lightning storms

BI-TRONIX COMMUNICATIONS
 
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X