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Question of the Day: How do you normally pay for purchases in stores?
SAOL got a 30gb
- Thread starter s2000
- Start date
PostmanPot
Honorary Master
they both use SAIX backbone afaik. so it'll be the same.
in a nut shell
What happens at the moment is you authorise and connect to Telkoms RADIUS. If I am not mistaken that entire part falls away. SAOL must now provide their own bandwidth. It gets very confusing cause you end up paying for the same thing twice.
What happens at the moment is you authorise and connect to Telkoms RADIUS. If I am not mistaken that entire part falls away. SAOL must now provide their own bandwidth. It gets very confusing cause you end up paying for the same thing twice.
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Borgir said:I signed up for 30 gig just hope its no catch
Its active Jan+. Will i still be able to use Nukecaps PayVPN or Lowping VPN? If its on IPC?
I truly doubt that SAOL would bring out a special as a catch.
If any ISP does that, their days are numbered, this forum was a great idea.
Telkom should have a forum where clients could go and praise their fantastic service
DIE BEAST DIE
Carlhead
Expert Member
IPC account basically allows you to connect to your ISP directly, so you would still beable to get your mail etc. once you're capped.
You ---> ISP's network ---> SAIX ADSL ATM
rather than
You ---> SAIX ADSL ATM
This enables the ISP to have much more control over your traffic etc.
I don't think SAOL sell IPC accounts... I know IS and UUNet provision thier own accounts.
You ---> ISP's network ---> SAIX ADSL ATM
rather than
You ---> SAIX ADSL ATM
This enables the ISP to have much more control over your traffic etc.
I don't think SAOL sell IPC accounts... I know IS and UUNet provision thier own accounts.
Roman4604
Executive Member
Not quite right ...Carlhead said:
Without IPC
You --> Telkom ATM --> Telkom IP --> Telkom inter-connects to Internet
With IPC
You --> Telkom ATM --> Your ISP's IP --> Your ISP's inter-connects to Internet
Problem with IPC, besides being expensive itself, is your ISP has to buy fast (fiber) international access from Telkom, unless they use 'inferior' satellite connectivity. So Telkom use cost pricing, while your ISP uses retail pricing for the same international bw ... pretty difficult to compete with them unless you have huge economies of scale. Only other option is to provide an inferior service with higher contention ratios.
Carlhead
Expert Member
My bad...
Of course you still have to connect to the Telkom ADSL network... where's my mind!
You also have to worry about your ISP's peering with the SAIX network.
IS and UUNet have experienced major hassles over the past few months (and few years) with peering link congestion and downtime.
Of course you still have to connect to the Telkom ADSL network... where's my mind!
You also have to worry about your ISP's peering with the SAIX network.
IS and UUNet have experienced major hassles over the past few months (and few years) with peering link congestion and downtime.
allyoucaneat
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Torrents work fine with All You Can Eat.
Basically SAOL have a line into Telkom's IP Connect service, which essentially allows them to connect to Telkom's ADSL network on a backbone level. Telkom provide the connection between SAOL's client and SAOL themselves. SAOL are then responsible for providing bandwidth over that link. This is different to ISP's that utilize SAIX - those ISP's do not provide any bandwidth themselves, SAIX does. The ISP's simply 'resell' SAIX accounts.
The problem with going the IPC route is that the ISP is now responsible for providing bandwidth themselves. Wholesale international bandwidth pricing is around R7,000 per month for 64. So a few users with 512k ADSL lines can be quite a problem. This is why 'caps' are enforced. The ONLY way that such pricing works is with massive amounts of users sharing the bandwidth. Verizon, one of the big US based DSL providers, only broke even when their subscriber base ran into the millions.
This is why most ISPs except for the massive ones like IS and UUNET have stayed away from providing their own bandwidth on ADSL. Out of interest, even MWeb with 30,000 ADSL subscribers utilises SAIX bandiwdth and does not run it's own IPC line. SAOL is essentially running a gamble that not all of its users on IPC will use their full traffic allowance, and that users will hopefully use more local than international, as local bandwidth is far cheaper.
Because the bandwidth runs directly through SAOL with their IPC link, they can control it as they please. Perhaps they block P2P as a way of trying to protect against 30gb users using 30gb of international traffic every month. But if all users used their full bandwidth allocations, I'm sure the ISP would lose out, especially if alot of that traffic is international.
What else is interesting about ADSL is that it centers around huge maximum speeds, with usage controlled by TRAFFIC, not speed. But ISPs buy bandwidth in 'speed'. Therefore although the ISP may only have to provide 3GB of traffic a month with their own IPC line, they have to provide it at huge burst speeds. This is another reason why only huge ISPs like IS and Telkom can justify broadband provision. You need the maximum capacity.
To give you an idea - if an ISP buys 64k of international bandwidth for R7,000, 40gb can be transferred at full usage in a month. However, you could never sell 40/3 = 13 512k 3gb ADSL accounts to utilise that 64k, because your users would never get more than 64k (even less if other users are using their lines simultaneously). What you need to make it work is huge subscriber numbers, which justify the ISP buying large amounts of bandwidth to satisfy that burst speed requirement.
The problem with going the IPC route is that the ISP is now responsible for providing bandwidth themselves. Wholesale international bandwidth pricing is around R7,000 per month for 64. So a few users with 512k ADSL lines can be quite a problem. This is why 'caps' are enforced. The ONLY way that such pricing works is with massive amounts of users sharing the bandwidth. Verizon, one of the big US based DSL providers, only broke even when their subscriber base ran into the millions.
This is why most ISPs except for the massive ones like IS and UUNET have stayed away from providing their own bandwidth on ADSL. Out of interest, even MWeb with 30,000 ADSL subscribers utilises SAIX bandiwdth and does not run it's own IPC line. SAOL is essentially running a gamble that not all of its users on IPC will use their full traffic allowance, and that users will hopefully use more local than international, as local bandwidth is far cheaper.
Because the bandwidth runs directly through SAOL with their IPC link, they can control it as they please. Perhaps they block P2P as a way of trying to protect against 30gb users using 30gb of international traffic every month. But if all users used their full bandwidth allocations, I'm sure the ISP would lose out, especially if alot of that traffic is international.
What else is interesting about ADSL is that it centers around huge maximum speeds, with usage controlled by TRAFFIC, not speed. But ISPs buy bandwidth in 'speed'. Therefore although the ISP may only have to provide 3GB of traffic a month with their own IPC line, they have to provide it at huge burst speeds. This is another reason why only huge ISPs like IS and Telkom can justify broadband provision. You need the maximum capacity.
To give you an idea - if an ISP buys 64k of international bandwidth for R7,000, 40gb can be transferred at full usage in a month. However, you could never sell 40/3 = 13 512k 3gb ADSL accounts to utilise that 64k, because your users would never get more than 64k (even less if other users are using their lines simultaneously). What you need to make it work is huge subscriber numbers, which justify the ISP buying large amounts of bandwidth to satisfy that burst speed requirement.
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Abe
Expert Member
I can't believe this figure. I am sure that a 128K diginet leased line costs less then this (and that is with a certain portion of international)matt156 said:
I understand the principals but the amounts sound extreme. Based on those figures they would be forced to charge R538 for those 13 accounts. It costs less then half that with a normal ADSL package. If that were the case, it would be cheaper for them to set up a bunch of ADSL lines at their office and have them all hooked up to SAIX. They would then route the international through their ADSL lines and the local through the normal channels. I seem to remember reading somewhere that satellite bandwidth was quite cheap.matt156 said:
Cheers
Dean